dmp

Hello all -

I currently drive a 93 Miata LE -



I'm now have the car 'For Sale' in an attempt to replace it with something larger - and a car that 'could - if - need - be' carry the entire family should our family car (Nissan Alty 175K miles) fail, until a replacement family car can be found. My 'short list' of possible replacements includes S4 (B5 chassis), 2005 Mustang GT, or a used RX8. I've yet to drive the Mustang, but have driven both the S4 and an Rx8.

The S4 was a hoot - except when I started corning. Noticeable body roll. I could equate the handling to my previous car - 93 Probe GT. It felt like a fwd car going into corners; I could feel the car pawing out of the corners, however.

I went to look at an 05 Mustang and came away with some potential problems - namely, the interior felt pretty cheap. Bargain-bin stuff. The vents and trim rings around the vents looked/felt horrible. I'm withholding judgment however until I can see how much 300hp would make me forget the interior issues.

Yesterday, coming back from a family event, my wife suggested stopping by a Mazda dealer to see if they had any 8's in stock. After some chit-chat with a salesman, we had the kids' car seats buckled in - the boy behind my seat, and my daughter behind mommy and off we went. Before moving out, I pushed and held the Traction control for 7? seconds or whatever before I saw the little indicator in the gauges that the car shouldn't be hampered by electronic intervention.

I poked away from the dealer, then let it rip a bit once we got to a couple back roads. I was VERY impressed. Prior to driving the 8, I had assumed every car I'd drive would handle like crap compared to my Miata...That prejudice did NOT apply to that RX8. I was expecting very little grunt, but was pleasantly surprised - noticeably, when I'd shift to 2nd hard, the car would lunge forward; pulling nicely. I kept the car in 2nd thru most of the twisty bits - I never felt out of control. The car rode reasonably well, and cornered very flat, with VERY little drama. My wife said later, "I think you should go for an RX8 - as SOON as you got behind the wheel you started smiling...and never stopped during the entire test drive."

...and the interior of the car? Spot-on fantastic. It felt more like a fighter cockpit than a 'pseudo-sedan'.

The kids were mostly oblivious back there - not a LOT or room - but no bickering or fighting about somebody being on somebody else's 'side'.

So what's the problem?

When I first got my Miata I enjoyed it. It had about 155 LESS HP at the wheel than my Probe did - and likely 180lb-ft. But it was fun. It just IS fun. No worries - just scoot along. That was fine, until one day on the freeway where I was having trouble passing a Suzuki Esteem with 4 people in it.

I shopped around for a GReddy Turbo system which gave me perhaps 45-50 whp. VERY fun - yet I found myself worrying more about A/F Ratios, Boost Levels, EGTs, etc. It got so, like the probe, the car had become a 'project' where the care-free fun was gone; driving the car had become worrisome - I missed the simplicity of not having to monitor ANYTHING but the Tach and Temp.

I sold the turbo system, and now run I/H/E - Even as much fun as the car is, I find myself continuously making 'yeah but' comments about the car. "Sure it's slow - Your minivan would beat it at the drag strip? Yeah but my car handles well. Yeah but it's fun, etc.

Buying a Mustang or an S4 allows the means to relatively easily produce MOUNTAINS more power. $500 = chip for the S4 and 60-70hp. I/H/E on an 300hp v8 = 50hp on a mustang. $2000 on an Rx8 10? 15? More HP?

So - after all this babbling...do any of y'all ever find yourself making 'yeah-but' comments about the car? To yourself or others? I'm not suggesting the car is a slouch - it felt VERY strong compared to my miata - or even the miata w/ the turbo.

Does it ever get old, though, having a chassis which could handle another 100whp, but that number being VERY Far away both financially and technologically? How long before the power, or lack of it, becomes a liability in every-day driving joy? Does it bother you any to have to struggle to catch S2k's, etc? Of course, I'd be 'struggling in a car with plenty more room, and more distinctive looks! :D


Sure - one trip to Flyin Miata and $6k later (FM Turbo + Clutch) and another $1k on a new rear-end would give my miata a solid 220-250whp. The car is still 11 years old. The car still can't carry the family. And the car is back to a 'project' car. It's still back to monitoring stuff - distracting from the pure joy of driving.

Perhaps I'm too picky? I would very much acknowledge I want my cake, and wanna eat it to.

Anywho - thanks for your insights - the clues I picked up lurking here helped a lot during my test drive...

Riccio

Nice pic of your Miata - looks very nice!

And - listen to your wife, silly. If you were smiling during the whole test drive, WHY are you asking questions.

Run to the Mazda dealer, buy the RX8. You won't regret it!

dmp

thanks! hehe..

Have to sell the MX5 first...want it? :D Cheap? :D

Icemastr

If you like how it handles, and are pleasantly surprised by the power what is wrong with having a reliable daily driver family car that handles great? Its plenty fast for taking the kids around. Keep the Miata for your 2nd car and use the RX-8 as your main car and I am sure you will be happy. It will be a much better car for you in the long term if your driving it all the time, even though another car would have a lot more power, the glaring aspects of poor interior and not so great handling will be come more and more obvious as time rolls on.

kilted

Recently I found myself living in Seattle and getting ready to move back home to Nashville, TN. Sadly my 97 Miata needed a bit of work and wouldn't be capable of getting even a 1/10th of my stuff back to Nashville, and the thought of towing it and then still having to fix it once I got back to TN just didn't appeal to me. Plus I was moving back, in part, to help out my parents who are aging and finding it hard to do a few of the things they used to, this meant I would probably need something a bit more spacious and easier for my father to get into and out of.

First stop was a MINI dealership. I drove a Cooper S, liked the way it looked, had tons more room than the Miata, felt slightly quicker than the Miata, but it just wasn't nearly as much fun to drive. You never forgot that it is a FWD car, it felt really heavy, and while I really liked the size of the car I knew I just wouldn't be happy with it.

So I left the MINI dealership and went to a Mazda dealer. Drove an 8, a week and a half later (and after making everyone in the sales department hate me) I drove off with a brand new, silver, 6 speed, sport package, RX-8.

I love the car, it handles exceptionally well, has tons more power than the Miata, doesn't feel rediculously heavy even though it outweighs the Miata by a considerable amount, still has that "tossable" feel to it, and sings like a possesed canary on crack when you rev it up. Ok, it probably won't beat a 350Z in a drag race, but I don't care, I'm not into drag racing, I like twisties. After driving a friend's Z I am pretty darn sure that I would rather have my 8 on a run through Deal's Gap than his Z, and since I am back east I will be going out to the Gap fairly often again.

Buy the 8, get ready for the stares, find a nice set of curves and go all out. I doubt you will even be able to remember the Mustang while throwing the rear end of your 8 out in a hair pin

G8rboy

DMP-
I came into RX-8 ownership after owning a '96 M-Edition with lots of handling mods (shocks/sways/bars), and a few power mods (intake/cat/exhaust) that I absolutely loved- it was the first car to really remind me what the joy of driving was. Not power, just a pure balanced sports car that fit like a glove. I was very hesitant to trade that for anything, but with my daughters getting older I needed a car that I could haul around more than just one person, and I also was looking for something that would handle the winters a bit better (I had a hardtop for the Miata, but it just didn't insulate all that well at -15F : ). I had thought about keeping the MX5 for a long time, adding a FM kit and going down the road of contant tweaking/tuning/maintenance... but I thought I'd look at the RX8 as well.

I fell in love with the RX-8 after the test drive, and subsequently had to take my wife and kids to the dealer to get their reaction to the usabilty of the suicide doors, back seats, and all the added safety features over the Miata.... which pretty much sealed the deal. I bought the RX-8 in December, but held on to the Miata for another month or so just in case I really missed it- but in the end I sold it without regret.

While I thought the RX-8 would be a buy-it and forget about it type of car from a modification standpoint, I couldn't help but do a few things here or there. I'm very happy with the power, pretty happy with the handling (I'm going upgrade the sways, and already upgraded the shock tower brace), and the quality is head and shoulders over my highest expectations. With the DSC/TCS turned off, it's like a slightly overweight Miata ready to have some tail-happy fun, and with the DSC/TCS on (+ snowtires of course) I've got the peace of mind of driving my family through a snowstorm in comfort and control. It really is the best of both worlds...

dmp

Thank you all very much - your replies and experiences are greatly appreciated.

I'd love to keep the miata, but frankly, the money from the sale will finance my payments for about a year, on a used $25K car - I'm just ready to move up, so to speak. Since I want a newer car anyway, it occurred that I should find one which could fill in, should the need arise, as a temp family car...Honestly? I doubt the family would be in the car 90% of the time. So yeah - it'd be a basic commuter/fun car.

I'm trying to convince myself that even with a Mustang GT or an S4, I'll likely NEVER own a car as fast as my motorcycle - I can just keep using the bike when I need my 'uber-fast' fix, ya know? To build a car capable of 10 second E/T's and 130mph trap speeds would take a LOT of money. Even starting with a MGT or an S4.



So...yeah. Somebody buy my miata, so I can at least get started! :D

Aratinga

I'll trade you that gorgeous LE for my Red 8 -- just take over payments.

As a Miata driver for 14 years and an 8 driver for 1-1/2 (along with keeping the Miatas), I can tell you the only "yes, but..." comment I find myself making is about the 8's gas mileage. If you can deal with the additional fuel slurpage, you'll be delighted with an 8. It's everything a Miata is, but more -- with the exception, of course, of having a droptop.

And since you're transporting wife and kids, you'll be far more secure in the 8 than in just about anything else you're looking at. Rollover resistance is top-notch, and I know for a fact that the passenger compartment is extraordinarily insulated from a severe rear-end collision.

Let me know if you want to trade! Mine should be out of the shop in another week or so (four months after being smashed into).

mysql101

Never. Everyone is too enthralled with the looks of the car, the sound, or busy trying to figure out what kind of ferrari it is.

dmp

...if your payments are less than $200/month, we'll talk! :p

I need to sell the miata to create a fund from which to draw the payments on my next car - at least for as long as I can.

I'm pretty sure I can deal with the fuel economy - I only drive about 15 miles each way to work - compared to the 100 miles per day I drove for the 1st 3 years of Miata-ownership.

dmp

haha Wouldn't be a bad problem to have.

dmp

Side note - if anyone cares; here are more pics of my miata:

:D

http://www.miatapix.net/coppermine/index.php?cat=10007

G8rboy

Very Sharp... my dad had a '93LE, which got me turned on to Miatas. He also had a 93 RX7, which got me turned on to rotaries. Come to think of it, he's to blame for my Mazda addiction, dammit! .

rx8wannahave

93 Miata for a 04 RX-8....are you serious? dmp jump on that offer if his payments are not so bad and it has not been in a reck...

Aratinga, are you for real...???

How about a 94 Probe GT....any takers...LOL

What type of miliage are you getting Aratinga to make you want to trade the 8? City/Highway...

dmp

Thanks!

My dad was anything 'but' a car guy...my older brother however...I cut my teeth on 60s Fords and Mopars...lived in Germany while in the Army too - that helped fuel my hobby.

dmp

I used to have a 93 PGT - was pretty darn quick .. now some of the guys are running 11s. My engine was internally stock, but boosted to 245whp/260ft-lbs at the front wheels.

G8rboy

That was my dad as well- 50's and 60's muscle cars, and a few british sports cars too. He didn't get the Mazda's until I was long out of the house.

rx8wannahave

In my early "car guy" years I saw the Probe GT in high school and I fell in love with it's looks. I always wanted one but I forgot about later on. I got it as my 2nd car and it was old already but I still feel that the Probe had alot of potential but FORD punked out by making it FWD.

Heck, if they would have given it 200HP V6 and made it RWD the Probe would have still been around today. Well, if they changed the name since it's name keeps reminding me of Aliens and discomfort.

It performs great and back in the day Motor Trend said it was one of the best handling FWD cars ever...I had another one they said that about too, the Nissan NX2000.

I was seriously thinking of (a la Overhauling) of dropping a small V8 in the Probe and modifying it so it would be RWD. I mean a complete re-do of the car inside and out…

THEN THEY MADE THE RX8…and I’ve been obsessed since…

Get the 8, I think it will reward you with many smiles for the years to come! Keep in mind I don’t have one yet so my opinion is based on one test drive…but it felt so so nice….to say the least

spork

Yes, exactly...

There's only one thing that bothers me about the 8. That's the mileage. The lack of torque? A bit troubling but I can EASILY live with it because it's still fast enough for me. The supposedly much lower horsepower than reported? I haven't had a problem passing people and I don't even push the car often. Flooding? Never been an issue. Extra oil consumption? Haven't added anything and I'm at 1600+ miles now (yes, I just checked yesterday and the oil level is fine). Air conditioner still has the problem where the air is hot if I don't turn it on to 85-100% cool, but it doesn't bother me since I usually open the windows or just put it at 85-100% cool. So yeah all the typical "problems" with the 8 are pretty much unnoticeable with the fun factor of this car except the mileage.

I have to fill up way too often and with the 91 octane gas it gets pricey. And it's kind of depressing when everyone I know points out that I'm getting SUV type mileage. Sigh. Some people are very ok with it, but I'm guessing those people can easily afford the extra gas costs? I mean I can afford it, but it's not like chump change to me.

Taking turns fast with the car though... so much damn fun.

Ike

Sounds to me like you want a car that you can make nice gains on with little money and headaches involved. Without some pretty heavyduty mods the RX-8 isn't getting much faster than stock. A car like the STi or Evo sounds like it would be right up your alley, it has more rear seat room, true 4 doors, and are very easy and inexpensive to make faster. They will also easily outhandle the S4 and be much cheaper to maintain. But I'm guessing you're not even considering them because you don't like the looks. You can have your cake and eat it to when it comes to handling, speed, practicality in those cars. But for some the aesthetics turn them off, but they're at least worth a test drive.

dmp

Frankly, I like the WRX - the STi is still way out of my price range. The WRX is close to the S4 price around here. For the money, the S4 has MUCH nicer interior than a WRX.

About making nice gains;

I don't suppose I'd ever take an S4 to more than Chip + exhaust. I wouldn't take a Mustang GT to more than Intake/Headers/Exhaust. But the option is there, should I get bored with the normal power levels. So, yeah, the fact it's hard to make more power w/ a RX8 is a small turn off. I just can't get the handling, and how I 'felt' while driving it, out of my head. For a big car, it felt VERY nimble - VERY tossable...VERY planted.

Thanks for your comments, however.

AKS4

dmp - I will soon be in a similar boat as you. I am currently wanting something a bit more reliable and fun to drive, as well as being a long time rotar fan, something with the rotary. The RX-8 fits the bill completely for me, aside from the fact I am currently living in AK. I recently (2 yrs ago) found a screaming deal on a 2000 Audi S4. Coming from 3 626's, and at the time a 2000 Legacy I thought why the heck not, it was/is one of my dream cars and I must say I am enjoying everymoment of it. I have the APR stage 2 chip, swaybar, short shifter, EFU unit (loooong explanation) RS4 rims, etc.... modded decently I think. Regardless, it is a definite testament to the appeal and quality of the RX-8 for me even after getting my "dream car" to want to trade it in for an 8. The main issue I dislike about the S4 is the cost of ownership, with warranty about to go, it will be the typical German performnace car $$$$$$ for repairs.

I'd say the S4 is a very nice car, very nice family sedan. has gobs of aftermarket support, and I am currently whooping some fellow auto-xrs butts. It is fun to drive, and AWD is awesome. At the end of the day, I'd like to be living somewhere warmer and driving an RX-8.

My $.10 there

Hard 8

Over the years, in addition to an RX-2 and a first-gen RX-7, I have had:

1. A new 1991 red B package Miata (eventually supercharged);
   
2. A new 1994 black R package Miata (eventually supercharged); and
   
3. A used 1992 sunburst Miata, with an FM II turbo and all the goodies.
   

I drove a Miata almost every day, for thirteen years or so. And now (long story) I have my red RX-8 Sport Package. I've had it over a year and am still thrilled to death with it. I have three kids (5, 6 and 10) who all love it, too, and are very comfortable in it.

If you keep the revs up, the 8 feels very quick, and is quite quick. Being smoked by an S2000 seems unlikely to me; they have very similar acceleration curves. Being smoked by an STi or Evo is much more likely, but I would never try to compete with such a car in a straight line in the first place. Regardless, I am very pleased with the 8's acceleration, and it feels almost as quick as my FM turbo, even though it's over a second slower to sixty. (Nothing like the feel of a stock Miata.)

The day-to-day driving feeling remains wonderful. I do miss the convertible experience, but otherwise it's a joy. The interior is great; the car has been stone reliable, with nary a problem, the handling is terrific, the brakes amazing, and I've already commented on the acceleration. It's a supercar in almost all respects. Truly world class.

But ... there are a lot of wonderful cars in the marketplace right now. There are so many choices that it's very hard to pick one. No car under $40k or so has it all. Some have better acceleration than others. Some have better handling. Some have nicer interiors. You have to make some compromises, but at this price point they are not painful compromises.

I think you would do very well with an 8. At this point you might consider a lightly used one, since you could likely save about $8,000 that way.

Please let us know what happens.

dmp

Thank you VERY Much - I can relate to a lot of what you replied with.

And 'used' is the ONLY way I'll be able to swing one...so, that's what I'm looking for.

I figure it'll take a couple months to sell the LE; winter isn't 'drop-top' season.

But - as soon as I can sell it, I'm there I think.

lol

:D

Hard 8

It's an exciting place to be, picking a "new" car. This thread is also interesting:

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/my-test-drive-car-hunt-ova-i-think-12292/