actually, the 3 and the 6's chassis/platform is currently being used throughout the FoMoCo umbrella..... LOTS of cost savings with platform/technology sharing going on here

 

BMW's target market aren't exactly the ones going out and buying Mazda 3s

 

BMW's secret is to build a competent car, price it out of the reach of the regular folk, then market it at the image-concious guillible well-heeled consumer. Just like Benz, only I think the BMWs drive better.

The sick part is, I've driven a few 3-series, and while competent, they just don't feel like a sports car. Nice, solid, fast, quiet, tight, but heavy and a touch lethargic at the wheel. Still better than a benz or lexus. But nowhere near the "dancing with an angel on the head of a pin" feeling you get from a proper sporstcar.

Even their sports cars feel like a sedan...

 

Plus, even if Mazda did build a 3 series competitor, no way they could sell it for the same price as the current 3 series since lots of people would pick the BMW for the cachet value.

I used to own a 3 series and missinmahseven is right, they're tight and sporty for a sedan and miles beyond things like accords and camrys, but they're not sports cars. If I remember right, the new 330's are pushing 3500 lbs nowdays.

 

The cost savings that come from FWD are not just in parts sharing. By putting the entire drivetrain in one small sub-component, the most difficult to manufacture and assemble parts of the car can be engineered separately.

It's far more efficient to manufacture a FWD car, but the drawbacks are significant, also. FWD cars are more prone to vibration, they are not as smooth, it's easy to unexpectedly exceed their limits, etc. These are the things that are leading manufacturers back to RWD since the customer wants a more comfortable vehicle and is willing to pay for it.

 

^ that's how most FWD cars feel to me -- like the drivetrain doesn't belong with the car. o.O

Another reason for the sudden FWD thing was -- the typical driver, Joe and Jane Muggle and their 3.275 kids and 1.25 dogs is too .. unsaavy.. (would willfully ignorant be too strong a phrase?) to know how to properly handle a RWD car, especially a higher-powered RWD car. FWD was safer for Them.

Now we got computer controlled everything. A hot RWD car is now less of a risk for Joe and Jane Muggle.

They'll still wreck 'em, but not as easily.

 

I have a 1993 RS Escort... It torque steers like a mother. I really have to fight with the wheel when I get on it hard. I'm sure something is loose or something, because it is a 150 hp engine with 140 torque or so... But yeah, still goes all over (really bad on bumpy British roads).

I think most (90% or so) want FWD. If it snows, they don't want to worry about sliding all over. FWD has less driveline loss, and (not sure about this, but whatever) probably gets better gas mileage too. People don't want sports cars. They want dependable cars that can handle any conditions. That is what the Mazda 3 is. A car for all people.

 

Whats the big deal about no MS 8?


They didn't make a Mazdaspeed RX-7 either did they? You don't hear them bitching.

 

bloody hell a kia sedona is has more horsepower and torque than the RX8, but none of us are lining up to get that are we.

i doubt a MS3 will beat a RX8 on any autocross track. hell the 8'll even give the MS6 a run for its money - maybe even win more than a few circuits. the 8 has handling superior to all these cars. even the host of top gear said it was the best car he had driven so far on the show. it tied the BMW M3 on the autocross course as well, but i guess a lot of ya'll are more concerned with paper races vs actual races. several RX8s are winning and placing high in autocrosses all over the country - yet it's hp and torque numbers make you think it's a lesser car??? it's about who crosses the finish line first, not what's under the hood. i doubt anyone here has taken the car's performance to its absolute limits yet, so don't complain about power until you have.

not to mention both the MS6 & MS3 look like every other car on the road. i love the fact that my car is a head turner, and i get complements on it every day.

 

pizz0wn3d!11111111uno

 

I'm trading my Protege5 for the MS3 as soon as it's out!!

 

very logical trade, the mazda 3 hatchback is the protege 5's sucessor

 

More like FWD made great sense in Japan and Europe where you have tiny footprint cars (on tiny roads) that need to maximize interior space. FWD simply packages better than RWD, 4WD, and traditional AWD. The lack of a driev shaft and transmission running down the middle of the car (think of your RX-8) leaves more room for occupants.

 

agreed, for normal passenger car duties (aka point a to b, plus light duty cargo), fwd is actually the most 'efficient' design for a car...

 

Right.

And Ike's comment wasn't a strawman argument? The premise originally wasn't just that the 3 was released first, but that it has a higher priority. After Ike pointed out about the release dates (which I am still not sure are correct for JDM), I acknowledged that, but it still didn't invalid the whole argument.

 

Hey... Ｉ didn't say I liked it　or thought that it's the best setup for a "fun to drive" and "performance" car.　　It's the best layout for economy cars/standard passenger cars.

 

i was saying your arguement was stronger than Ikes(of course in a rediculous and satyrically humorous way) not the other way around

 

I think you actually agreed with my argument. I was simply pointing out that they didn't decide to do the Mazda 3 because it was due and the RX-8 wasn't, I think they did it because it made more sense from a business standpoint. I also don't think we'll ever see a MS 8, but that's for a different thread.

 

i have to agree with ike(i hate doing this) but it makes much more logical sense to make a ms3 instead of a ms8.

a ms3 has a few major advantages

1. much larger market

2. ability to accept carrover R&D making it a much cheaper project

3. ability to transfer R&D spent on this project to others(specifically engine related)

 

Did I? Did you? Kinda sorta...

I guess I just wanted to point out that it isn't because the RX-8 is a failure or whatever. Even if the RX-8 had sold better, I think the decision would have been the same... even in that situation the business case for a MS3 is still stronger.

 

Oh. my bad... I read that wrong then.

 

the sales of the rx8 are close to irrelevant to the development of the mazdaspeed 8, it would only change the viability of production if they were selling like 350zs. Really, if rx8s were selling to what mazda's goal was there would still be the slim to none chance of development of a north american marketed ms-rx8 that we have now, theres many reasons its just not a good investment of r&d money, it appeals to too niche of a crowd and they wont be able to make enough profit to justify r&d costs. and aside from that, mazda doesn't consider the rx-8 a flop at all...

 

^^ Exactly my point (in my last post).

 

...yeah which is why i agree with you :D

 

A niche of a niche crowd, at that. Perhaps niche^2.