Mr_Q

Actually I know I would drive the car like that. i.e. I would not get out of 1st gear in 405 rush hour in LA. I also know I would always do a 5 min warmup. Although at lunch I could see my fellow co-workers slapping me in the head saying "get yer *** going man!"

My concern is that even if you do all those things. It still floods! At least those are the kind of things I am reading here. Also what about stalls? We all sometimes munge the clutch and stall. Even if warmed up people are still flooding, right?

Have I said how much I love the RX8? Dammit I want this car! I feel like I have found the sexiest women in the world and she wants me but if I kiss her I will get some terminal disease.....

sferrett

Warming up prior to driving the car, IMO, is a waste of time. Driving it around the block if it's not warmed up and you want to park it, is not.

That's my question - I think if you're driving it hard enough to keep the plugs clean (ie: you're driving it like a rotary), then your chances of flooding are virtually nil. My thought is that driving style has a lot more to do with if you flood or not, rather than if it's warmed up or not when you shut it off.

Mr_Q

You're killing me. You're making me believe if I drive it like a rotary I will be good to go......dammit.

The dealer will just love it if I ping pong yet again. Jeebus!

Bahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Why couldn't the car just look ugly? Then it would be easy. I am turned off by the 350z's understeer and 300+lbs or it would be the an easier choice.


P.S. Since you know how to fix it if it occurs....It's cold right now...even SD....go outside. Start your car. Let it warm. Then drive it. Purposely stall it. See if it starts, then do it again. Just to test. Course then you would not be driving it like a rotaery. But it would be interesting/reassurring if it did not flood.

Artifex

That would be me, what would you like to know? Note that I've only ever owned rotary cars and that flooding has been a historic problem for Mazda since the rx-4 that I know of. My only gripe is I'm surprised that after almost 30 years they released a brand new car with the same problem. But enough of that I've posted my gripe in a few threads already.

Seriously, if theres anything you want to know or would like me to try for you, I'm willing.

sferrett

I'm tempted to wander out and start it, then stall it in the driveway to see if it floods or not. That said, however, I'm much more tempted to not have to put on warmer clothes, go outside at 1am and dick around with the car...

As for Artifex's post:
Interesting. I wonder if the engine "knock" (or otherwise undertermined noise) and hesitation you've posted about in other threads could have something to do with it also? (perhaps indicative of some other factor) My question(s) would be - what is your driving style (general shift points, etc), is the car AT or MT, how many miles on it, does the occasional "knock" noise make you adjust your driving habits at all?

While I can't say that I've only ever owned rotaries, of all the cars I've owned, the majority have been rotaries. I've have had my FC flood on me twice in the ~70k miles I've owned it (140k on the clock now) and the FD has been (quite) hard to start once in the 10k miles I've owned it (64k on the clock) and I believe that was due to a not-very-well-charged battery.

I agree with you that a "modern" car should not have such an issue as this. What I'm trying to do is not say that its OK or not a problem, but see if I can characterize it a little better so we can perhaps determine why some people (such as yourself) have such bad luck with it while others (such as myself) don't seem to have similar luck. My original thought was perhaps carbon (or other) buildup on the plugs due to driving style, perhaps that's not it.

Simon.

8ZoomZoomZoom8

I wake up for work every morning at 4:30am and drive to work at 5am. When I am half asleep on the road I have stalled a couple times. Each time the car has started back up without a hitch. Since I have owned this car (OCT) with 2500 miles I have not had trouble starting the car yet.:D Just an FYI to help assist your decision. Its best to have as much information as possible before a buy.

Pavehawk

I'm not an 8 owner yet. However I will be in February even with all of the flooding/fouling issues that I've read about on these forums.

It's my understanding that the fouling of the spark plugs is primarily due to excess fuel being left in the rotor housing where it can contact the plugs. This should only occur if the motor is shut off and then left off in a cold state.

If the car stalls backing out of the driveway, simply restart it.

If you bork the clutch and stall it, simply restart it.

If you shut it off cold and realize your mistake, simply restart it.

I do realize that there have been a few cases where simply restarting it didn't get the job done. That appears to be a battery problem, not an engine problem. Would an improved battery solve these issues?

Am I missing something here?

Kaliken

ok.. here are some of Ken's mishaps...

Started it at work(cold I was going home) forgot I left it in gear released the clutch stalled it within a second. Started up with NO (hold on one more time for the slow) NO problems.

First week, Still trying to get better at MT I stalled it trying to get in my driveway after having it outside for a while. Started up again with no problems and drove it into the garage.

Still that first week. Stalled it not even a minute after i started it. Still started with no problem.. Lets count the other times I stalled the car that week and I would say we would have a nice sample size...

so two conclusions, I am really lucky..(where is my lotto ticket) or the flooding issue is not that bad.

Remember your RX-8 isn't just a car. its something you need to take care of and learn how to use properly. If you want something just to drive go get yourself an econobox. Read up on the rotary engine you will be surpised how innovative and unique it really is!

sigh..

sferrett

Hi Ken - interesting info. I'm in your boat at the moment, so far I've not had any issues.

Rather than luck I wonder if there's some other factor which makes some folk's cars susceptible to the issue... Initially I thought driving style, but that may not be a factor based on other posts to this thread.

I dont think its just that the issue isn't that bad - it sounds like for some people it's quite chronic. Perhaps it's not as widespread as the posts on the issue make it seem (ie: we shouldn't all be living in fear and paranoia about the car flooding at the drop of a hat, or summarily saying that the rx8 is junk because it floods for some people), but certainly for those folks that it affects, it's certainly a real issue.

I can't imagine that it's just luck - there must be something else going on also. Perhaps a build quality issue, or something...

Simon.

BillK

That's the general problem - we don't know.

What you say about "simply restarting it" in these situations is what one would do - but we have no assurances from Mazda that it will be possible and that, in fact, it won't be:

If you bork the clutch and stall it, try to restart it then wait for the tow truck to come and pick up your car and wait for two days while your car is being unflooded at the dealer, and it's not at all clear if this procedure will be covered under warranty more than once.

That's the risk I don't want to take and no one has been able to confirm or deny as of yet.

If flooding only happens if you shut off the car cold and let it sit, that's one thing, but we do not know, and I don't think anyone's willing to stall their car after a cold start every day for a week and see if their car floods on any of those occasions...

jonalan

Never flooded, but...

*I occasionally blow past 6k rpms on gearshift, ususally in 1st or 2nd. But not always.
*I try to hit redline at least once per trip.
*I NEVER cruise @ 5 or 6k - what's the point of that? All that does is waste gas.

sferrett

OK tonight I purposefully stalled the 8 about 30 seconds after starting it up. I'm going to continue to do that in the morning and afternoon for a week to see if I can get the car to flood. I'm very curious if this flooding issue is car-centric or not. Still not conclusive (very difficult to prove something to never happen) but at least some more info perhaps.

Sea Ray

This will certainly be interesting

Nathan Kwok

FWIW, flooding is a design flaw, not a defect. The reason why rotaries flood is because the combustion chamber is never open to the atmosphere, unlike piston engines which actually open up a hole in the combustion chamber, rotaries sweep the air from one side of the housing to the other, so the area around the spark plugs will never see the atmosphere. This is a problem because if you start the car and it doesn't get a chance to warm up, when you stop it, the air trapped around the spark plugs could be too cold. This will cause the gas mixture to condense around the spark plugs, inhibiting spark the next time you try to start it. With no spark but a continuation of fuel, the flooding will get worse. If it gets bad enough, the oil film that normally sits on the rotor housing gets washed away by gasoline, causing a massive drop in compression, at which point you will probably need a push start or the "ATF" trick if you know what that is. Once you deflood the car and proper compression is restored, all is well, no permanent damage, although repeatedly doing this is probably very bad for the catalytic converter. If you suspect you have flooded your car, cranking the engine with no fuel (gas pedal to the floor) should circulate enough fresh air to evaporate the condensed fuel so you can start the car normally. In 4 years of owning an RX-7, I have never flooded the engine, and many many times I have let it warm up for less than 60 seconds before shutting it off again (car wash anyone?), so it really hasn't been a problem for me, but your mileage may vary. I live in Cali where it is usually quite dry and it doesn't get too cold, so this promotes evaporation, making it less of an issue.

Mr_Q

Answer me this.

Are the people having flooding issues running 87 octane gas or 91?

I would believe that it would be easier for unburnt fuel to collect with 87 octane than with 91. Since 87 octane gas resists combusting more than 91.

Whatcha think?

Zoom2X

Actually it's the other way around. 91 Octane resists combustiing more than 87. That's what the anti knock index is about. The higher the octane rating the more resistant to early combustion (pinging) the fuel is.

Artifex

I had the best luck with my T2, I think it's only flooded on me 2 maybe 3 times, and all easy restarts. The 8 just plain stalled from when it flooded, I've never seen that before.

Answers to your questions:
I do personally think the other engine symptoms I've reported in other threads are connected, it just seems like the ecu goes in and out of a closed loop mode.

6sp touring, 5500mi.

When I loose power, I don't change my style too much, I doesn't feel like detonation in the rx-7s that makes you want to let up on the gas immediately.

The engine itself is strong because when the power is there its decent. I've experimented with different octanes, bsaically same results.

Regarding buildup I pulled the trailing plugs(leading plugs were way to hard to reach from the top) tonight to take a look, and was really surprised to see liquid oil sitting in the spark gap. I wonder if the metering oil pump is not metering so well. Any thoughts?

winter

New to the forums, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question.

Is there any reason, upon the car flooding, that you can't pull the plugs, clean 'em off, and put 'em back in instead of having it towed to the dealership? My 1973 XL250 had a habit of flooding, so I just kept a dry plug and a spark plug wrench under the seat.

luredale

Mine has flooded twice and each time must be towed in. Mazda USA refused to pay for the second time but was convinced otherwise after much screaming. They have stated that if this occurs again they will not pay for it because it is driver error(They will pay for one time because they said they need to educate people on starting procedures better). That is a big joke. I know how to treat the rotary and the proper procedures. You might want to check with your dealer because there is a kit for the dealer to install (Hotter plugs). Just watch out for the second time because you'll have to pay (About $275.00 according to my dealer). Until Mazda admits and figures out the fix, you're screwed(as I am). The 8 is the sharpest looking but on a redo, I'd pick the Infiniti G35.

luredale

When you flood a rotary, pushing the pedal to the floor won't work. In a normal fuel injected engine, this shuts off the fuel and you can crank until it fires. The rotary will continue to pump worsening the problem. If your starts after flooding feel very fortunate. Most do not.

MEGAREDS

See the owner's manual, page 7-20. Foot to the floor should stop delivery of fuel and give a flooded car the chance to start. For me, it didn't work:

Flooded - Emergency Start Procedure Let Me Down.

MEGAREDS

I also was told that they would not pay for a second flood repair if one were to occur... they also initially refused my first repair:

Flooding Not Covered Under Warranty

I sent my letter to Mazda NA complaining of this treatment. I'm reserving judgment on what to do until after I get a reply. I'll keep people posted...

MrBill

There has been a lot of discussion about pushing the pedal to the floor when trying to start a flooded engine.

First, that's the procedure in the owner's manual. While it may not be foolproof, it's surely doesn't worsen the problem.

Someone here has actually verified that when you try to start the engine with the pedal completely on the floor, the fuel injectors shut off completely, so no fuel is getting in.

Regarding warranty coverage, I specifically asked Mazda of North America about this. Their answer was "Mazda will cover for the towing and the repair if the RX-8 does become flooded."

Now I didn't ask "How many times?", but they didn't say "towing and repair once if..." either, so I will expect them to live up to their words, each time the RX-8 becomes flooded.

MEGAREDS

Someone else PM'd me with the same story of being told, in writing, that Mazda would cover flooding "under warranty." As I said, I've asked them to clarify their policy on flooding. I also asked them to explain whether the coverage, if any, was considered a "service adjustment" (one year) or "basic coverage" (48 months).

sferrett

FYI I've either stalled out or cold-stopped the car each morning and afternoon since my previous post and so far no hint of any issue. I'm favoring shutting it off since stalling out seems like quite a strain on everything.

So I'm curious what factors are making some folks flood-magnets...