Here is an intesting point of view

http://www.itv-motoring.com/news/2005/july/01/6435.asp

Mazda In May

(01 Jul 05)


The Premacy is doing well both at home and abroad, but there have been big falls for Mazda's sports cars. Sales of the RX-8 are bombing more or less everywhere - time for another airing of our opinion that most people who want to buy one of the rotary-engined coupés have already done so. The poor performance of the MX-5 is more comfortably explained by the fact that the next-generation version will be along very shortly.

 

I would generally expect mid year sales to be slow. Alot of people are going to hold out for incentives and rebates at year end close outs, and for the hopes of a model refresh. The 3 and 6 are Mazda's bread and butter...no **** they sell more than the 8, which is also the priciest car in the lineup.

I'd also venture to say that the rotary attracts a certain demographic where cars like the Z/G35C are more easily marketed to the masses. I'd also be willing to bet that the 8 is produced in smaller numbers especially due to the fire at the plant which is probably the biggest factor in sales figures.

 

Unfortunately, sales have been down too long to be attributed to that. It's less spacious than "normal" family sedans, gets poor MPG (detrimental with current fuel prices), and is underpowered compared to the competition (especially problematic since joe-six-pack values torque so much). Only purists will appreciate its non-aesthetic advantages... apparently Mazda's sales expectations were optimistic.

I just hope they sell enough to keep making them. If I ever need to replace it, there's no other sub 2900-pound (base 6MT) RWD 4-door with tight steering, instant throttle response, smooth shifter, 200+ hp, exceptional balance and handling, and a comfortable ride.

 

i think we have to just accept that the rx-8, in its current incarnation, will never be a big seller

 

Doubtful. Even year-to-year, the RX-8 sales are down a huge amount. They barely sold 1000 units last month -- only about a third of their goal. They sold twice that many in May of last year.

The Mazda fuggered up, since their projected sales for the RX-8 was the same as Nissan's projected salse of the 350Z. They obviously thought they'd be able to generate sales as easily as the "mass-market" Nissan.

And you'd lose that bet unfortunately. Mazda produced just over 1000 units for export last month. And it's not ramp-up at the factory -- In March and April, after the factory came back online, they produced 3 times that number for export. Mazda simply didn't have the orders to keep the plant running at full tilt and cut production rather than flooding the lots with cars it'd have to sell at a loss, like it did with the '04s (which some dealers still have by the way).

 

Here's a rather telling number:

2005 Mazda RX-8 Inventory within 50 miles of my ZipCode: 255 Units
2005 Nissan 350Z Inventory within 50 miles of my Zipcode: 48 units

And those are cars with roughly the same production and projected sales. And, while the inventoryof RX-8s encompasses a mix of the lineup, most of the 350Zs (35 of the 48 left) left are either Automatic or the high-priced versions that are well over $35,000. And there are twice as many Nissan dealers in that area as Mazda dealers -- leaving your average Mazda dealer with, literally, 10 times as many RX-8s on-hand as the average Nissan dealer has 350Zs on-hand.

 

I can understand it, at least compared to the RX-8. I would think that a fair percentage of sales are going to graduating high schoolers (their parents buy them for them), and possibly younger adults who just graduated college and are getting their first paid-for-by-them car. The point is they are still young and they want what most of us wanted in a car when we were that age....power. They don't care about finesse, handling and probably not even a larger interior. They want to be able to punch it from a stop light, and be slammed into their seat. They aren't going to get that with the RX-8. The only time you might feel like you have a powerful engine is when watching the fuel gauge. If I still had that adolescent/young adult mentality, I wouldn't have spend the money for an RX-8 either. I'd have just gotten a Mustang. And the people who are much more mature and have money to spend are most likely going to get something more expensive and prestigious. I like my car, but Mazda shot themselves in the foot as far as making this car marketable to a larger chunk of the masses.

 

You'll never "appeal to the masses" with a rotary engine. Too many people believe the negativity posted about rotaries. Let'em buy something else and keep my car that much rarer on the road. Some say that it will bring resale value down but I have seen just the opposite at the dealerships here locally.

 

Mazda did come very close to its first year sales goals for the RX-8. But I don't believe we've ever seen their 2nd year projected sales goal. We can't just assume it's the same as the 1st year goals. I would expect a fall off in the second year, but perhaps not this sharp.

I have to agree with ITV's opinion that maybe most of the people who really wanted this car already bought it. On the plus side, it makes my car that much more special to me knowing it's not dime a dozen on the roads. On the downside, my dreams of seeing a killer 4th gen RX-7 don't look promising with this kind of sales trend for the RX-8.

 

well if anything..i want an rx-8 and i don't have it yet

 

You make a good point, Hachi. Perhaps 30,000 units isn't a fair number since it was their first-year projection.

However, there is little arguing the fact that the RX-8 isn't selling as well as intended. A local dealer here having 64 RX-8s on their lot is a little excessive by anyone's standards I would imagine. No dealer in this area has more than 8 350Zs on their lot. And the number of RX-8s on the lots has rapidly increasd over the past 3 months after the plants came back online. In this area it's gone from 152 to 255 units in 3 months with dealers expecting more shipments still.

But, for what it's worth i still want an RX-8 and don't have one yet. So there'll be at least one more in this area sold.

 

The RX8 is an exotic car, they never should have tried to match projections with other typical cars. Not hard to take care of . . . if you understand them. That's alright though, I wanted a rare car. Had an eclipse before - sucks to see 20 or 30 cars just like yours everywhere you go.

 

ugh, it doesn't look good unfortunately.

 

never make this statement again, please

 

http://www.automobear.com/index_home_content.html

Don't know how accurate they are, but sales seem steady. Look under Sports/GT, also check out Mustang sales under Mainstream Coupes.

 

This puts things into a much more objective perspective. While compared to the Z, the 8's sales numbers might not look great. But looking at the big picture compared to all the Sports & GTs out there, sales aren't as terrible as some might think.

Furthermore, I believe that the original 1st gen RX-7 may have been the only rotary powered car to outsell its more mainstream Z counterpart in its era.

I don't think Mazda can ever recapture its 1st gen RX-7 "sales" glory years with any kind of rotary powered car in this day and age. But it's the rotary that makes Mazda unique in the world and I hope the sales numbers are enough to justify continued engineering investments.

 

The sales have stablized. They make enough to make a profit.

Over the long run they should increase their sales due to the quality of the car.

 

You can't factor in the Mustang here either. Ford has sold a lot of them... enough to claim it's the number one selling car in it's class. But look closer and you'll see that they sold a gagillion of them - stripper V6 models - TO RENTAL CAR FLEETS to jack up their sales numbers. Funny, that.

Bottom line, if Mazda wants to sell as many as the Z year to year, it needs about 50 WHP more. Y'all know I am fanatical about my '8, but I'm realistic too. And until Mazda addresses the power difference it'll never catch Nissan. MAZDA ARE YOU LISTENING? :D

Of course, I've got mine - so if they sell no more and the car stays as rare as it is now... fine by me! :D :D

 

It took over 10 years for Mazda to sell 500,000 Miatas and bust MG's record for two-hole roadsters. Past 700,000 now, 16 years later.

I don't think they ever sold that many 1-st gen Rx-7s.

There's no reason to expect big sales (and I mean Mustang and Z-car big) from the 8.

It's not that kinda car .

All of the 8's competition gets comparable, if not superior numbers from brute force. Big Horsepower, smokey burnouts, big macho cars.

But that's the point of the 8 -- It does with finesse what others do with brute force.

The 8 does something the others won't -- it FEELS spectacular through the wheel. A car you drive with your fingertips, not your fist. A car you whisper to, even in the heat of battle, not yell at.

It won't sell like a Z or a Rustang simply because it isn't, and it appeals do a much different car person.

I bet we have a few Ferrari folk lurking about here. Ditto for Porsche folk, and of course, all the others. But the former two, in particular the prancing horse guys, will tell you "It isn't about the numbers." They know what it is, and so do we.

There's a similar chasm in audio. Most will say big 1000 watt amps and super-fancy speakers are the way to go, the only way to go. But a very small band of freaks will tell you a tube amp making six watts and a horn speaker is Nirvana. The big-power guys point to response charts, magazine articles and big blue power meters sweeping to the music as proof that Their Way is The Way.

The six-watt crowd sits between the speakers, and overdose on glorious music and whatever poison is their choice, completely oblivious of such things as THD and Damping Factors and other technical mumbo. Sure, some go down the deep end and endlessly argue about which tubemaker made the best 300B ever, but rarely do they engage in number-throwing. They Enjoy the Music, as it were.

Are both wrong? Both right?

We're like the freaks with the six-watt tube amp. We're the ones who revel in a light, precise, almost aircraft-feeling car with exquisite handling and enough HP to get the job done right. Are we wrong? Are the crude, big-horsepower turbo guys right?

We Enjoy The Drive. Forget about dyno numbers and time slips. We enjoy the road unwinding just beneath our butts, the car's wheel, nay, the entire car telegraphing what's going on at all times.

Who cares. I'm thankful I have a choice, and I chose poise and balance over big power and brawn. If Mazda quits making sports cars, then hello herr Porsche, may I have one of those in black, please? It's that simple. Yes, I put the 8 in such company. No, I don't think any other Japanese car short of a stook or an nsx belongs in the same sentence as Porsche or Ferrari or Lotus.

But mazda does They have, from the very first moment that first Cosmo 110 spun its little wankel to life.

BTW, since *when* does ITV comprise sound automotive reporting? Its like CNN, man.. or MSNBC or whatnot. The real automotive press fell for this car long ago. The mainstream press is still scratching their head about what exactly the 8 is. :D

</rant>

 

Just an Australian perspective. The 2005 year to date sports car sales are as follows:

Sports Cars (3,727)
925 Holden Monaro
713 Mercedes-Benz CLK
586 BMW 3 Series coupe/conv
395 Mazda RX-8
386 Honda Integra

The 350Z doesn't even make the top 5. There doesn't seem to be heaps on dealers lots, and the deals aren't that spectacular.

Personally, I'd love them to get overstocked and do the deals to move them. I plan on getting mine in the next few months as a keeper, and I'm not too worried about resale value in the the medium term. They really aren't that common on the roads, at least in my area of Sydney.

 

"DITTO"

Very well said.

 

Ditto here, too. One of the BEST posts I've read in over a year on this forum!

 

Australia is most fortunate to be the land of the Performance V8s. If we had the likes of Holden HSV and Ford FPV here in the US the Z probably wouldn't be selling as well either. Yeah, we did get your Monaro, but that's not selling in huge numbers here for other reasons.

 

missinmahseven, your post is spot on. Most everyone that purchased the 8, cross shopped it against the Z and the G35C, and even the Mustang once it rolled out. Exclusivity at this price point is wonderful.

 

This would make sense if there were no 05's on the lot. To the contrary, dealers by me have a ton of them. Lower supply due to the fire would affect sales numbers, but if the demand were there for the car, then there would be shortages as a result. That has not happened and that tells me the fire was a blessing in disguise for the dealers who do not have to floorplan extra unsold 8's.


Missinmahseven - good post.