ken-x8

So that's the answer. Mazda is building that many engines not because of failure in RX-8s, but because of the tremendous market for airplanes and off-road vehicles.

What a relief!

Ken

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

j9fd3s

just to add a counter point, my friend has a 2008 VW and transmission #2 just bit the dust.

he's in warranty by time, out by 1000miles, and VW isn't willing to do anything, $5900 parts and labor.

pistonhater

Lame.

Nobody said there was a direct correlation between the engines Mazda remanufactures in that plant and airplanes and offroad vehicles.

If anything, that only points to the fact that there's more to that remanufacturing plant than the RX8club.com forum, and even perhaps the US market.

And there is no way in hell we can know with certainty the specific number of RX8 engines that have been replaced from that bogus article 9K posted anyway.

j9fd3s

actually is it possible that the 5,000 number is just all rotary engines?

pistonhater

That's the point. Who knows?

The 5,000 figure is not an official number from Mazda. Just a guess from a website.

The figure may as well represent other crap they re-manufacture in that facility.

ken-x8

Well, yeah. They never actually tell you.

Where is Jim Garrison when we need him?

Ken

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Did you read the article? It's an article from the local Richmond, VA new paper about the plant that was built in Chesterfield VA, it's not some random car web site article, it's a local newspaper article.

And in the article it states:

It doesn't say anything about the plant rebuilding any other types of engines and Sleepy-Z never stated that they rebuilt any other types of engines at the facility. They had rotary experts from Mazda Japan come and teach them how to rebuild the Renesis specifically (read his posts and look at his pics). Now that plant rebuilds other parts in other buildings on the plants grounds, but that is not point of linking the article, my point is that is specifically indicates that they rebuilt 5,000 RX-8 engines in 2010 and that is a lot considering it is very unlikely that 2010 was an especially high production year for the plant so I assume that number was pretty high the year before that and since then as well.

pistonhater

9K, you better than anybody else on this forum knows that anything that comes up in auto blogs, car websites, forums, even local newspapers, etc. about the rotary engine needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

The article you posted may have more credibility than other crap people post on the forum because of its location as you stated (Richmond, VA).

But still.....it is NOT an official Mazda publication.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I agree for the most part, auto journalist are highly biased and generally the news is not always accurate. But this local paper would not have any reason to fudge numbers that I can think of. It's a local fluff piece about the local economy and Mazda's involvement in the local economy. And I am sure if the info in the article was inaccurate then it would have been redacted. But, we have to assume the reporter was given the information from Mazda, where else would she have gotten it from.

Karack

most of those offroad vehicles have turbocharged older rotary engines.

i've rebuilt a few sandrails and they all were turbo, responded well due to the light weight and i would even go as far as say more reliable than a renesis swap.

j9fd3s

the FD engines DO come out of the Virginia plant, BUT they have been mostly 100% new, so its possible that they come from japan, and get shipped to Virginia because thats where all the plastic engine tubs are.

the FC engines are still on the list too, but i haven't seen anyone order one since like 2007? 2008?

actually its a complete aside, there was this guy who worked at a Mazda only shop, and he had a T2, he bought a Mazda reman for it, and it blew up, so he got #2 under warranty, and that blew up too, so he had Mazda send #3, to me, and i pulled that one apart and took pictures, and stuff to document how well, or not well it was assembled.

there were a couple of minor things like, a TON of sealant, and a stripped out oil pan bolt, but overall it was just fine.

that engine blew up too.

so is it the engine? engine builder? or is there something wrong with the car?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

Almost every rx8 I look at or talk to the owner of in this region has had a reman (or more than one) installed. I have, sitting out in front of my house, an 89k mile 04 that is on (at least) it's 3rd engine...the original, a mazda reman, and the one I just built for it.

I have rebuilt maybe 5 original rx8 engines, and closer to 25 reman rx8 engines. Many of the owners did not know they were remans until they were removed from the car.

I also rebuild many reman FD rx7 engines, in fact I have a 95 here right now with a badly failed reman engine (stock car, no significant mods).

I am currently rebuilding an 04 rx8 with 65k total miles and 4k on a reman.

I would say the 50% replacement figure for rx8s is CONSERVATIVE. I am at the point now where I get so many requests for rx8 rebuilds that I could never work on another rx7 engine or car again and still have to turn work away. I could probably pull up 100 "04 rx-8 engine" emails from the past 2 months easily.

All of the remans dating back to the late 90's have had the blue tags glued onto the front cover...not just the ones coming from the Richmond plant. I have seen some of the very old ones from the early and mid 90's from the florida and/or california plants that did not have tags, but did have other giveaways that they were remans.

However, all is not lost. Take some solace in the fact that there are so many dealer misdiagnosed engine "failures" which are probably just failed ignition coils/wires/plugs that led to fouled plugs, flooded chambers, and low compression, that half of the engines which were replaced with remans were not actually "failed" to begin with. They may have been moderately worn and somewhat weak, true, but many of them might have still continued to run and outlast the remans that replaced them. I think a significant portion of the reman installs were shady business by dealer service departments, or simply an attempt to appease uneducated customers.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

And you will get more business, Mazda just upped the price of a reman this week from $2001.00 + a $1,000.00 core charge to $3,335.00 and $1,670.00 core charge. It's nuts.

Some people are just in denial. In the beginning it was, "oh. it's just the 04's and 4 port automatics, but the M flash fixed that" and then as the 06's, 07's, and now 08's started rolling in to dealers then people finally started realizing it is just a fundamental design flaw of the engine.

I agree RR, I know very few 04-08 RX-8's owners who are on the original engine. Actually I only know of one girl, and she drives a stock low mileage 07 auto. And I have met a **** ton of RX-8's owners during my years of ownership. And it's not just the modded guys either, we have a had a few bone stock guys in our local group get remans including me (my original engine went at 22,000 miles when my car was showroom stock). And I have met plenty of owners at the dealer, at gas stations, etc. who don't even know this site exists that have had engine replacements.

And I have a feeling that a lot of people have remans and don't even know it. When I had a dealer tech buddy run my service history one of my replacements wasn't even on it so if I had sold the car, the new owner would have never known the engine was replaced.

j9fd3s

weird, the regular dealer website doesn't show a price, because that would be too easy...

the competition site says $3500 + $1000 core, so prices are changing! i guess Mazda thinks these things are out of warranty enough to start charging the real cost of rebuilds

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

It's sad, because part of my justification with sticking with the renny was the relatively cheap rebuild cost compared to other platforms.

viprez586

iTrader: (5)

Damnit! That was my same exact thought. $2k was do-able worst case secarnio.
So I decided to keep my 8 over a manual IS300 that just needed a clutch and a few tid-bits. Unfortunately girl said no cause she didn't like it.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

SO wait...not to get off topic, but...you're a grown man, and your "girl" (as opposed to wife) told you what car you could keep?

The only way that would fly with me is if she were paying for it.

therx7kid

I agree RR.

ken-x8

If digital "knowing of" counts, make that two. I'm still on my original. Bought it new, so it has to be the factory engine. Only 58,000 miles, so there's time for it to blow.

I've had all of the other traditional failures - coils, sun visor, console latch, coolant level sensor. I did buy Zoomy as second childhood, at a point in my life where I could take a risk. My biggest concern about the engine blowing is that there just isn't any other car out there that appeals to me.

Ken

ken-x8

How well have your rebuilds been holding up? Is Mazda's problem sloppy assembly, which is sometimes speculated here, or is there just something fundamental going on?

Ken

viprez586

iTrader: (5)

Suppose I should've rephrased that. Fiance said no. We have joint accounts as well so yeah we're both paying for it. "Happy wife, happy life"
Anyway I'm over it. I'll get a new car eventually.

DR. Victor Wankel

are the autos more or less prone to failure? my auto has a reman on it. hoping it will last atleast another year. I stomp on the gas like a madman everyday. drive the crap out of it.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

That is a question I wish I could answer.

Unfortunately, I lack the ability to give ANY mid or long term data on my rx8 rebuilds (or any of the rx7 rebuilds for that matter). The reason for this is that the customers NEVER report back to me. Guys pay for the engine, I ship it out, I answer a few questions to help them get it installed and started, and I usually never hear a word from them again.

When I rebuilt my first handful of rx8's back in like 2008, a couple years had gone by and I realized that I had zero feedback on this forum....something that I wanted to build up a bit for the future when more guys needed engines and thought my service was "too good to be true" as is often the case. So I actually went back in my records and emailed each person who had gotten a rebuild from me to that point. I asked how the engine was running and if it was possible for them to post feedback for me on this forum. I was ignored by all of them.

Around then, I started giving out a reward offer with each engine build (about 30 a year on average). It states that the buyer can get a $50 refund if they post feedback about their engine build on rx7/rx8club within 6 months of purchase. Thus far, only one rx8 owner out of about 30 has seen fit to take this $50 feedback offer.

Also on that reward sheet is an offer to make ANOTHER $100 by referring someone else who completes an engine build. One would expect this to be easy for rotary owners, since they are usually part of local car clubs or drift/race groups, or just hang out with other rotary owners. To date, out of probably 100 engines built with this offer attached, zero buyers have taken the $100 referral reward.

I'm going to have to say something here that most shop owners and businessmen already know, but may be unknown to or painful for the average person. Here is the bottom line, MOST PEOPLE ARE LAZY AND ONLY CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES. In most cases, unless something directly negatively affects them, they are not going to be bothered to take any action whatsoever.

Oh, you can bet that if something is not quite right with the engine then they will be back in contact with a quickness, and it might even be enough to provoke an internet posting or word of mouth review out of them. But, a job well done goes without reward more often than not, and you will NEVER hear anything back from those people.

Also bear in mind that, similar to rx7s and all such similar sportscars, these cars are not generally one-owners. They get bought, played with, traded/sold, wrecked/parted out, engine swapped, etc. much more often than a "normal" car like a ford taurus. They live a harder life and generally the younger guys own these cars and tend to have less money to spend on maintenance and improvements. Put all of this together and you find that the cars change hands so much that it would be impossible to truly trace the history of a rebuilt engine and it's treatment/status over a long period of time.

In fact, at least 3 or 4 times this year, customers who I have rebuilt an engine for have sold the car almost immediately after getting it installed and running. I know this because the customer fails to give the buyer the rebuild paperwork, then the new owners usually call or email and ask "what all was done to this car/engine, does the warranty transfer, can I get a copy of the paperwork?" etc. immediately when they buy.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

More. Much more. The auto engines tend to last about 40-50k on average from what I can tell. Manual engines do 80-100k by comparison.