ATTN: For members who have traded in their 8s
04-24-2008, 03:19 PM
#26
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Well, today I tried to trade in my RX-8 at a Ford dealer, because I was set on buying a new Fusion. I went in armed with my KBB printout, which suggested a trade-in value of $13,200 ("Good" condition) for my '04 GT with 49k miles. Imagine my surprise when my salesman came back with an offer of $8500!!! After expressing my disappointment and telling him I wouldn't accept less than $12,500, he told me to give them a couple hours while they "shopped" the car around to different dealerships and auction sites. They called me back after 3 hours and said that the best purchase offer they could find was for $10k! Even when they contacted the people most interested in Mazda vehicles, they were told that these cars were going for $10.5k-11k, and that at that price they weren't even interested.
Now I have bought 2 cars through this salesman, and I know he will do whatever it takes to get me to buy a car through him, so I truly believe the dealership gave its best effort to get a good price on the car. There is no room for negotiation on the new car purchase (employee pricing), so it all comes down to what I can get for the trade-in. It seems that this is a very undesirable vehicle right now. It probably has a lot to do with the very poor fuel economy and reputation (well-earned, I might add) of reliability problems.
Whatever the case, I am very disappointed right now. Not only am I being offered very low trade-in value, but the car itself is starting to act up again now that the warm weather has returned... I feel trapped.
Now I have bought 2 cars through this salesman, and I know he will do whatever it takes to get me to buy a car through him, so I truly believe the dealership gave its best effort to get a good price on the car. There is no room for negotiation on the new car purchase (employee pricing), so it all comes down to what I can get for the trade-in. It seems that this is a very undesirable vehicle right now. It probably has a lot to do with the very poor fuel economy and reputation (well-earned, I might add) of reliability problems.
Whatever the case, I am very disappointed right now. Not only am I being offered very low trade-in value, but the car itself is starting to act up again now that the warm weather has returned... I feel trapped.
04-24-2008, 03:30 PM
#28
renesis07 is 100% correct about negotiating the price and the loan itself. I let the dealership know I have a car to trade but will only focus on the purchase price of the car I want to buy. This of course assumes I want to purchase a vehicle on their lot.
Once we settle on a price, then I will sit down with down to discuss trade in value and let them run my credit. I always show up to the lot with financing as well just in case I do not like their term. Remember if you finance with them, they make more money then if you finance with your bank. The more you do through the dealership the more they will work with you.
Also many do not know that dealership and sales people get a commission on the loan itself. Ever wonder what happens when the salesman and the closer disappear behind some wall? They have submitted your information to several banks which the majority return with their proposed loan. The salesperson and closer will then offer you the loan that somewhat matches what you are looking for on monthly rates and what gives them the biggest commission check. Interest on the loan is not their primary concern.
So when you reject their initial offer, they disappear behind the wall again to review the remaining loans. They never present them all to you either because that is part of the stall tactic. One loan at a time.
Now if you get a good trade in value and negotiated a good price on the vehicle you want to purchase but do not like the terms of the loan then no sweat. Still purchase the car with them so they give you the most value and the next day turn around and refinance with your bank.
Once we settle on a price, then I will sit down with down to discuss trade in value and let them run my credit. I always show up to the lot with financing as well just in case I do not like their term. Remember if you finance with them, they make more money then if you finance with your bank. The more you do through the dealership the more they will work with you.
Also many do not know that dealership and sales people get a commission on the loan itself. Ever wonder what happens when the salesman and the closer disappear behind some wall? They have submitted your information to several banks which the majority return with their proposed loan. The salesperson and closer will then offer you the loan that somewhat matches what you are looking for on monthly rates and what gives them the biggest commission check. Interest on the loan is not their primary concern.
So when you reject their initial offer, they disappear behind the wall again to review the remaining loans. They never present them all to you either because that is part of the stall tactic. One loan at a time.
Now if you get a good trade in value and negotiated a good price on the vehicle you want to purchase but do not like the terms of the loan then no sweat. Still purchase the car with them so they give you the most value and the next day turn around and refinance with your bank.
04-24-2008, 03:37 PM
#29
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I am done with Mazda. I had a terrible purchase experience and everything service-related has been a complete nightmare (meanwhile, my experiences at Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealerships have been exceptional). For over a year now my car has been severely malfunctioning, and 3 trips to the dealership later they are no closer to resolving the problem. I am convinced my engine is suffering from low compression and needs to be replaced. This is the best case scenario right now... and that is very, very sad if you ask me. It's the main reason I'm trying to unload the car--I don't want to hold onto it past the warranty period. The entire ordeal is described in this thread if you're curious.
Anyhow, this puts a major snag into any plan to sell the car privately. I can't sell it as-is because it's running like crap. If I complain enough to the dealer and get an engine replacement, I can't see that being very appealing to a potential buyer either.
Anyhow, this puts a major snag into any plan to sell the car privately. I can't sell it as-is because it's running like crap. If I complain enough to the dealer and get an engine replacement, I can't see that being very appealing to a potential buyer either.
Last edited by RX8_Buckeye; 04-24-2008 at 03:44 PM.
04-24-2008, 03:37 PM
#30
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Well, today I tried to trade in my RX-8 at a Ford dealer, because I was set on buying a new Fusion. I went in armed with my KBB printout, which suggested a trade-in value of $13,200 ("Good" condition) for my '04 GT with 49k miles. Imagine my surprise when my salesman came back with an offer of $8500!!! .
I know the feeling (sort of like getting kicked in the nuts), I took good care of mine and went in with what I thought were reasonable hopes. They offered $9,500 I couldn't believe it. Ford dealer also, was trying to buy an Explorer. Luckily I had leased the 8 so I turned it in and didn't have any excessive wear or anything like that.
04-24-2008, 04:17 PM
#31
Grand Chancellor
Despite what some folks who thinks that they get a "Good", "Hot" trade-in value.... you didn't. Dealerships are out to make money. They can and will make money off your car.
Now with that said, all cars will lose heavy depreciation in the first 3-4 years.
Now with that said, all cars will lose heavy depreciation in the first 3-4 years.
04-24-2008, 04:25 PM
#32
The 8 will rapidly go down in value until its about 5 years old. Most cars hit a ceiling of around 10-12k. At that point people will buy it. They will still depreciate after 5 years but at a much lower rate.
Some kid who can't afford anything remotely new is going to want an RX8, 350z mustang GT so you will have alot more buyers once it gets cheap enough so it levels off.
Most of a car's depreciation happens in the first 3 years IMO.
Some kid who can't afford anything remotely new is going to want an RX8, 350z mustang GT so you will have alot more buyers once it gets cheap enough so it levels off.
Most of a car's depreciation happens in the first 3 years IMO.
04-24-2008, 04:28 PM
#34
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I've had unsuccessful trade in, buying attempts before, due to my total understanding about how dealerships work, and just how much money they will make off of me. I've had several dealerships walk away from me, because I am so straight forward, and many times I alienate them by throwing the same sales tactic right at their face, and act like I'm the salesman, and they are the buyer. I learned I can't do that anymore, because they will not tolerate it, so I just look at the price and walk away. No game playing. I have the price set in my head, understanding they have to make a profit, and if it doens' meet my criteria, I walk. I even got in a serious argument before over my car buying tactics, so I bite my tounge now, and walk away.
Never call out a bullshit con artist out on their bullshitting con artist ways. It can only lead to a bad situation.
04-24-2008, 04:36 PM
#35
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yea but over 60% in three years is pretty steap isn't it?
04-24-2008, 05:31 PM
#36
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Sure, but some far less than others... I got above KBB excellent for trade in for my WRX, which was about 70% of my new price and it was almost 4 years old. I also got a very good deal on my Evo so it wasn't just because the price was jacked up. There are others cars that will retain around 70% value after 3 years out there, the RX-8 just isn't one of them.
04-25-2008, 10:43 AM
#37
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I am a salesperson at a Mazda dealer.
You will not get 18 for your 05 GT w/Navi and 40k miles.
You will not get 18, especially from a BMW dealer.
You will not get 18 for it. Period.
Let me explain why.
Dealers need to make a profit. Period. THEY ARE A BUSINESS. Would you like to go to work for free? Of course not, your company's purpose is to make money.
You don't bitch at the shoe store if you know it costs $2.73 for some kid in Indonesia to make a $149.99 retail shoe.
Dealers rely HEAVILY on the service/parts dept. for their profit. You may think your car is pristine, but chances are it isn't. Dealers take a car, and on average have to put 1200 into it. They have to pay interest on it too every day that it sits on the lot. RX-8s are niche cars and it may sit on their lot for 70 days, racking up many, many hundreds of dollars in interest. Cars get nicked, scratched, things break, check engine lights come on, etc... while a car sits on a lot ...and it all costs money to fix.
Your trade in value is wholesale value. Dealers buy at wholesale and sell at retail, that's how a business works. Wholesale value is reflected mainly through auction reports. Why would they pay $2000 more for your car when they can buy it at the auction for wholesale?
If they overpay, they have to price your trade too high to stay in business and why would a customer even LOOK at an 05 RX-8 GT if it's 2k more than all the others out there?
KBB is almost always wrong. The only real way to see a car's wholesale value is to look at the auction reports.
A good way to see the real value is to take your car's wholesale value and multiply it by 1.xxx, where xxx is your state's tax rate, since you will save that much on tax. IE. a $16000 trade value x 7% tax = $17120 in money for you.
The easiest way to negotiate is to simply be nice to your salesperson, because YOU are their boss, YOU pay them by buying a car. By being nice, they will fight to get the best value for you because THEY REALLY WANT YOU TO GET THE CAR. If you're a dick, they won't care if you walk away, they won't want to grind their boss for more money for you and nobody is happy.
Then ask to see the auction reports and just make sure their value is in line with the report.
Hope this helps
.
You will not get 18 for your 05 GT w/Navi and 40k miles.
You will not get 18, especially from a BMW dealer.
You will not get 18 for it. Period.
Let me explain why.
Dealers need to make a profit. Period. THEY ARE A BUSINESS. Would you like to go to work for free? Of course not, your company's purpose is to make money.
You don't bitch at the shoe store if you know it costs $2.73 for some kid in Indonesia to make a $149.99 retail shoe.
Dealers rely HEAVILY on the service/parts dept. for their profit. You may think your car is pristine, but chances are it isn't. Dealers take a car, and on average have to put 1200 into it. They have to pay interest on it too every day that it sits on the lot. RX-8s are niche cars and it may sit on their lot for 70 days, racking up many, many hundreds of dollars in interest. Cars get nicked, scratched, things break, check engine lights come on, etc... while a car sits on a lot ...and it all costs money to fix.
Your trade in value is wholesale value. Dealers buy at wholesale and sell at retail, that's how a business works. Wholesale value is reflected mainly through auction reports. Why would they pay $2000 more for your car when they can buy it at the auction for wholesale?
If they overpay, they have to price your trade too high to stay in business and why would a customer even LOOK at an 05 RX-8 GT if it's 2k more than all the others out there?
KBB is almost always wrong. The only real way to see a car's wholesale value is to look at the auction reports.
A good way to see the real value is to take your car's wholesale value and multiply it by 1.xxx, where xxx is your state's tax rate, since you will save that much on tax. IE. a $16000 trade value x 7% tax = $17120 in money for you.
The easiest way to negotiate is to simply be nice to your salesperson, because YOU are their boss, YOU pay them by buying a car. By being nice, they will fight to get the best value for you because THEY REALLY WANT YOU TO GET THE CAR. If you're a dick, they won't care if you walk away, they won't want to grind their boss for more money for you and nobody is happy.
Then ask to see the auction reports and just make sure their value is in line with the report.
Hope this helps
.
Last edited by dre_2ooo; 04-25-2008 at 10:50 AM.
04-25-2008, 11:07 AM
#38
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I am a salesperson at a Mazda dealer.
You will not get 18 for your 05 GT w/Navi and 40k miles.
You will not get 18, especially from a BMW dealer.
You will not get 18 for it. Period.
Let me explain why.
Dealers need to make a profit. Period. THEY ARE A BUSINESS. Would you like to go to work for free? Of course not, your company's purpose is to make money.
You don't bitch at the shoe store if you know it costs $2.73 for some kid in Indonesia to make a $149.99 retail shoe.
Dealers rely HEAVILY on the service/parts dept. for their profit. You may think your car is pristine, but chances are it isn't. Dealers take a car, and on average have to put 1200 into it. They have to pay interest on it too every day that it sits on the lot. RX-8s are niche cars and it may sit on their lot for 70 days, racking up many, many hundreds of dollars in interest. Cars get nicked, scratched, things break, check engine lights come on, etc... while a car sits on a lot ...and it all costs money to fix.
Your trade in value is wholesale value. Dealers buy at wholesale and sell at retail, that's how a business works. Wholesale value is reflected mainly through auction reports. Why would they pay $2000 more for your car when they can buy it at the auction for wholesale?
If they overpay, they have to price your trade too high to stay in business and why would a customer even LOOK at an 05 RX-8 GT if it's 2k more than all the others out there?
KBB is almost always wrong. The only real way to see a car's wholesale value is to look at the auction reports.
A good way to see the real value is to take your car's wholesale value and multiply it by 1.xxx, where xxx is your state's tax rate, since you will save that much on tax. IE. a $16000 trade value x 7% tax = $17120 in money for you.
The easiest way to negotiate is to simply be nice to your salesperson, because YOU are their boss, YOU pay them by buying a car. By being nice, they will fight to get the best value for you because THEY REALLY WANT YOU TO GET THE CAR. If you're a dick, they won't care if you walk away, they won't want to grind their boss for more money for you and nobody is happy.
Then ask to see the auction reports and just make sure their value is in line with the report.
Hope this helps.
You will not get 18 for your 05 GT w/Navi and 40k miles.
You will not get 18, especially from a BMW dealer.
You will not get 18 for it. Period.
Let me explain why.
Dealers need to make a profit. Period. THEY ARE A BUSINESS. Would you like to go to work for free? Of course not, your company's purpose is to make money.
You don't bitch at the shoe store if you know it costs $2.73 for some kid in Indonesia to make a $149.99 retail shoe.
Dealers rely HEAVILY on the service/parts dept. for their profit. You may think your car is pristine, but chances are it isn't. Dealers take a car, and on average have to put 1200 into it. They have to pay interest on it too every day that it sits on the lot. RX-8s are niche cars and it may sit on their lot for 70 days, racking up many, many hundreds of dollars in interest. Cars get nicked, scratched, things break, check engine lights come on, etc... while a car sits on a lot ...and it all costs money to fix.
Your trade in value is wholesale value. Dealers buy at wholesale and sell at retail, that's how a business works. Wholesale value is reflected mainly through auction reports. Why would they pay $2000 more for your car when they can buy it at the auction for wholesale?
If they overpay, they have to price your trade too high to stay in business and why would a customer even LOOK at an 05 RX-8 GT if it's 2k more than all the others out there?
KBB is almost always wrong. The only real way to see a car's wholesale value is to look at the auction reports.
A good way to see the real value is to take your car's wholesale value and multiply it by 1.xxx, where xxx is your state's tax rate, since you will save that much on tax. IE. a $16000 trade value x 7% tax = $17120 in money for you.
The easiest way to negotiate is to simply be nice to your salesperson, because YOU are their boss, YOU pay them by buying a car. By being nice, they will fight to get the best value for you because THEY REALLY WANT YOU TO GET THE CAR. If you're a dick, they won't care if you walk away, they won't want to grind their boss for more money for you and nobody is happy.
Then ask to see the auction reports and just make sure their value is in line with the report.
Hope this helps
.
04-25-2008, 11:09 AM
#39
Grand Chancellor
Sure, but some far less than others... I got above KBB excellent for trade in for my WRX, which was about 70% of my new price and it was almost 4 years old. I also got a very good deal on my Evo so it wasn't just because the price was jacked up. There are others cars that will retain around 70% value after 3 years out there, the RX-8 just isn't one of them.
No idea with EVO as we are only getting the X now. Will see in a few year's time.
Here's a fun one. Check out the resale price of a CL600. Over here, it retails for 190k. 4 years later the trade in is 63k. Residual value of ~33%.
Do not be confused with exception for trend. The exceptions are that the dealer may already have a buyer for the car. The dealer really want to off-load their inventory etc. Irregardless, the dealer will always make money. A good dealer will make you feel good while doing it.
04-25-2008, 11:09 AM
#40
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Do not be confused with exception for trend. The exceptions are that the dealer may already have a buyer for the car. The dealer really want to off-load their inventory etc. Irregardless, the dealer will always make money. A good dealer will make you feel good while doing it.
I don't know the trade value here. I'm just using 16k as an example, could be more, could be less. Depends on your region, availability of RX-8's, condition, etc...
Last edited by dre_2ooo; 04-25-2008 at 11:12 AM.
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