23109VC

here is my take on why you get so many people who think the 8 is slow...

yes they test drove it. yes they knew what they were getting into.

the "problem" with the RX8 is that it is so much darn fun. I test drove an 8 while I still owned my last car. My last car was a 350hp turbo sports sedan...now sold...that car would tear the headlights out of MANY sports cars. I took it to the street legal drags and outran an STi.... (lost to a few souped up EVOs...) but bottom line..my heavy/four door/high hp uber-sedan.... would smoke an RX8....humiliate it..in a straight ilne..and honestly...on a road coarse woudl kill it too due to the power advantage... BUT.. when I got back from teh test drive..i thought to myself. "i like this better". it was more *fun*. the driving experience was more enjoyable. for flat out hauling from light to light..the faster cars do the job better...but when you just drive an RX8 on a twisty road...and ask yourself...what do I enjoy more... you're gonna have MORE fun in an RX8 that in MANY cars that have better "stats".... period. we all know that.

so people test drive it..they get all giddy and excited about how fun it is...buy it...

then over the next 6 months...some of that initial fun/excitement wears off...and then they start to gegt annoyed with the lack of torque. they commyute wtih the car back/forth to work..they don't have time to take it out on a twisty road...or out for a cruise..they stop winding it up to 9k.... and they just put around..and if that's all you do..yeah..i can see people getting annoyed with the car.

but it's not the cars fault..they just got bored with it..and quit doing stuff with the car that makes it fun to own and drive.

if you were going to buy a car SOLELY to commute in. and wanted the best commuter car..you'd be better off in somethign like a MS6 or an Acura TL or something. bigger back seats, bigger trunk, more torque, more luxury... but LESS FUN.

the test drive sells them on the fun factor...then they go back to their routine/boring commuter car routines..and then they get bored/annoyed with the car.

that's what I think... if these people who were annoyed with their cars gas consumption and lack of torque would shut upa nd just take the car out on the nearest twisty road, on a nice warm saturday afternoon..with some kickin' tunes on teh radio...and rev the stink out of their car..i think they would fall in love all over again..

but i do think more power would still make it better.

Detrich

^ +1 on what 23109VC said.

re: sql's response> hahahaha. indeed

New Yorker

That's a good theory. Good insight.

CarAndDriver

I want my MTV.

tajabaho1

I have to put in some comment on this now that I am deprived of an rx-8, ITS WAYYYY BETTER THAN ALOT OF OTHER CARS!!!! it might not even be as fast as the 335i, hell, I think maybe a good camry might pwn it as well, BUT SERIOUSLY, GO DRIVE ANOTHER CAR AND COMPARE! its way more fun to drive (sob at the crappy rental car)

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD: AFTERMARKET PARTS!!!! ring a bell? god damn retards

Raptor75

I relate the 8 to an old girl friend of mine. She was hot and a lot of fun. The problem was when I had to live with her on a day to day bases she had some faults that proved to be a deal breaker. It took me a while to get ride of her because she was a lot of fun but in the end that fun was not enough to over come the daily stuff.

Just like that girl the 8 is a great car that and a ton of fun to drive but when I watch that tank drain on a daily bases at 12 mpg that fun factor starts to wain.

saturn

So are you saying you want to PIIDB with your 8?

Rotator

Thinking about this some more....
What do raw numbers really mean? Cars are as much or more about an emotional connection over performance.
How does the car feel when you drive it?
Do you feel as though you are in tune with what the car is doing, or merely just piloting a ship?
In a recent EVO magazine they had a Lingenfelter Z-06 run around their track faster than a Ferrari 599 GTB.
Did they give it a glowing review? Not really - the reviewer claimed the standard Z-06 was fine - he would spend the extra money on suspension upgrades and track time.

With the 8, the engine is so smooth, that in stop and go traffic with the tunes playing, the sunroof open, when traffic breaks I am still in 2nd gear bouncing off the rev limiter. Why? Rotary!

EVO did a supercar comparison where the Bugatti Veyron pretty much ate everything else regardless of the road : straight, mountain, whatever. Did they pick it as the car they would take home? No.

What may be the fastest car out there, may not be the best.
What may be the newest car out there, may not be better than the car it replaces.

Think about the old 4 cylinder M3, the Datsun 510? Sure the newer cars are much more powerful, safer, but are they more fun?

TVR Cerbera Speed 12 = 917bhp/ton
McLaren F1 = 559 bhp/ton
Ruf CTR Yellowbird = 345 bhp/ton.

Is there such a thing as too much power? Ghostrider and the 500hp turbo Hayabusa doesn't think so.

I still want an RS4 though.

bigguy

I like to put everything in perspective... in 1980, I picked an rx-7 for $12000 over a Porsche 924 for about $14K, the 924 had 25% more horsepower, handled better, got better gas mileage (20-25 vs 17-22) - but wasn't as much fun. Remember this RX-7 was at about 100hp, rear drum brakes, and depreciated to 1/3 its new price ($4000) in 4 years. Oh, and that $12000 was about 40% of my annual salary as a young engineer.

Flash forward to 2005: Bought the RX-8 for $25000 which is about 30% my old engineer's salary. 230% more HP, Same gas mileage, better handling, safer, Seats FOUR!
A Porsche - the Cayman - I guess would be the model equivalent to the 924 - is also oodles better than its predecessor - but costs 3.5 - 4 times as much. Still just the Cayman HP goes up to 245 HP a Smaller increase in HP relative to the Mazda.

More comparisons:
1980 RX7 0-60 10 seconds RX-8 6.5 seconds
1980 924 0-60 9.5 seconds Cayman 6.1 second (same difference!)

The RX8 is the best sports car bargain in the world. Oh, and as for fuel economy, going to work today is cost me about one gallon of premium gas ($3.25/gallon) and $2.75 for coffee (over $10.00 a gallon!) I'll give up the coffee before I give up my commute in the RX-8! I'll just have to drive a little fast to get the heart pumping for work...

Huskyfan23

Ike, how can you use all your power several times a day? According to your post count, it looks to me like you never, ever leave your house.

donack456

All that being said, I question why Mazda doesn't sell more Rx-8s? I find it a fine automobile that seems to have alot of offering to a wide specrum of drivers. But its hard to see why it doesn't sell more cars then the Subaru STI/WRX.

I know some people think this is a plus bc no many are driver their Car. But Cars at this price are not like suit coats or dresses or shoes. The more sold the more company support it gets and the longer the Car stays in production.

I think there are different types drivers and some that are attached to legacys at any price (Ferrira, Lamboghinnas, Porsche, Nobles) some want performance in the extreme, some want bag for bucks (Evo, STI, Str4s?), Some want a balance of power and handling (Bmw, Porsches, Vette, Z-cars, S2000?), some want the thrill of the moment, some like the RX-8 drivers the knowledge of pushing their cars to the limit in curves and high reveving to speed in a comfortable coupe.

Is it that the majority of drivers haven't driven the RX-8 or they avoid it because to some people numbers are relative terms that amount to what can be expected from that car.

climacus

Why? Because the slushbox RX-8 is crippled, and most mainstream "sports cars" are sold with a slushbox. Look at the G35 coupe or 3-series.

If the S2000 came with an AT, Honda could have moved 3x more units.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I'm with you saturn . This car has the looks over just about anything out there & on top of that you get great handling & feel .
It is also pretty quick which is a real bonus . Just don't take it drag racing .

Rotary_Redliner

this is how i feel...

back in november when i was looken at getting a new car.. i was wanting something sporty and pretty cheap. the RX8 never ever ever even crossed my mind when i was thinking about cars that fit into that category. the average person is thinking "350z, mustang, camaro, g35, eclipse, tiburon..." u know, the usuals. and u gotta admit that mazda doesnt push and promote the RX8 like they do their other vehicles. and the RX8 doesnt get the press like it should.... why ? its becuz the RX8 is forgotten in the sports car world. its true... i completely had forgotten about it till the day i saw one at the used car dealership, and listed at such a low price it caught my interest. and after the first test drive i was hooked ! the RX8 is a damn great car... all a person needs is a test drive on a curvy road to find that out. to all those people that talk down on the RX8, or dont understand why RX8 owners love there cars so much... is becuz they havent experienced the car yet, they havent drove it.

the RX8 gets NO press.. every once in a while maybe, like the latest MT. and its nice to see a 4 year old car win against brand new sports cars. that says something right there.

that being said.. yes the gas mileage sucks lol. its plenty fast to me, but shoot id take 100 more hp if it had it and after all said and done I LOVE THIS CAR !

DRIVE ONE !

sosonic

Point blank the RX-8 should have been 300HP to 325HP and pulling low 5 sec 0-60. Had it been this way, the RX-8 would have been close to perfect.

Point blank, Mazda/Mazdaspeed had its head far up its own butt, to not figure out how to get an extra 75HP out of the RX-8. Damn, how hard could it be to come up with an FI solution and charge an extra $10,000 bucks for it as an option??? Just plain outrageous they did not do it. Though for some reason, I wonder if Ford had something to do with that...

saturn

There's no secret conspiracy. The RX-8 barely passes emissions as is -- with FI there's no way. The next-gen rotary is going to have to be a hybrid to pass the upcoming emissions changes (2010?).

donack456

The RX-8 gets no press?? Its won most of the magazine competition (until you read how it won) those in the know, know the RX-8. Its not the famous 92-98 Rx-7 but it is a new idea and great Car. It very practical and comfortable boardering on the bmw 325 series comfort level and its sporty boardering on the S2000. Its has a wide spectrum to the prespective drivers. Now it doesn't get the Tv press that the 350Z or Vette or Mustang gets. But its in a lot of Movies ( I don't know if that helps if john q public doesn't know what it is) but most sports car fanatic knows the Rx-8. I rate it in the top best sports cars on my list.

By I have to say this when I think of Sports cars I don't Tibourn weak engine and non exciting design & I don't know about its handling bc I ain't interested.

The Camaro and Mustangs are Sports Cars but more like pony cars or muscle cars. The Mustangs price & appeal range is why it sells so many cars, I bet its more 6 cylclinders out there then GTs. Most buyers just want a Stang incrowd thing.

My problem with the RX-8 is when you need immeadiate pickup does it have it? I haven't tested that feature yet during my long test drives. Handling is something that you have to find the right road to test, so its not as compelling an issue, until you find that strecht of curves.

If you just get out of a Mustang GT you will think the Rx-8 seems slow. If you get out of a Tibourn and into a 8 you will think the Rx-8 seems zippy and faster.

If you get out of a 350z and drive a Mustang GT you will think both cars are fast one just looks so much better. Pending what you like retro Stang or near Porsche looks.

Sunset ZR

Well you are partially right. I have a 350Z Roadster which is the king of impracticle (sp) but as my wife and I are looking for another sporty car of course the 8 with its great looks was on the top of the list. I was sorta convinced that as many of you as long as it got 18-20 mpg everything would be ok. On the other hand I can drive my Z hard and unless we are talking about Tail of the Dragon or track hard, I get 21 mpg regardless. Put it on the highway even with larger, wider tires I am still getting 24 mpg at 85 mph. Now that the gas companies have decided to bleed me through the summer (best time to drive) then we are looking and checking options again. The V8 mustang good power obviously doesn't handle as well as the 8, but runs on regular gas and get better mileage again by far. Truthfully as far as a sporty car for my wife, son and I to play in and go for a ride even in the mountains the 8 would be our first choice if all was well but with Regular gas heading for 4 bucks a gallon a sports car daily driver may even be out and the 8 may have been pushed back that much more. Hell I might even be able to pull the trigger on 20 mpg but some of you are talking 15-16 and that is just to low. I have my flame suit so burn away but these are some thoughts from someone who really wants to buy an 8 but the compromise seems to be to high. This really has nothing to do with the power or the handling as I bet I can get my Z through any curvy road as fast as anyone else with an 8 with like skills and visa versa but the cost to own is killer right now. Can we have a vote for opening up a few nuclear plants and give us back our gas!

Ike

The RX-8 could win 3 mag comparos a month and it still wouldn't sell. Between the reliability fears of the rotary, the lack of power and torque, the bad gas mileage, and the fact that a heck of a lot of people think it's ugly, means it will never be a big seller.

Ike

Yeah, because making 5 posts a day is so time consuming.

New Yorker

You are SO right! Whether it's choosing a sports car, a president, or whether or not to "believe" in evolution—people in this country just don't get it. I remember when we were known for our sound judgment. But today? I'm an Ameri-cun. I don't need to listen to no experts! I'm dumb as a doorknob, talk like I never finished school—and proud of it!

saturn

This right here is the worst part of this forum. This ridiculous idea that anyone who takes a look at what they need and want and finds the 8 to be wanting somehow doesn't "get it".

Fortunately this forum has a very low ratio of morons to normal people.

New Yorker

You tell 'em! Those auto journalists don't know ****!

sosonic

I don't buy that.

If Mazdaspeed followed through on the supercharger, they have a better chance of passing emissions and delivering more power.

Also, you would think engineers would get into a think tank and think of ways to get the pass. As it was, Mazda pulled some last minute ECU craziness to get the emissions pass in the U.S. That does not look like the mark of well planned or even out the box thinking. Better CAT, ECU changes, different exhaust, etc....

There is almost always an answer, just have to come up with it, even if it means thinking outside the box.

Also, you are talking FI as an option. You are charging the customers that want the power more. So there should be a profit in offering it. Right now, people are going to pro-tuners to buy FI kits, so that's money Mazda never sees. In fact, Mazda just gets complaints for not delivering enough power and looks bad. They have a product that could have been "near-perfect" and fumbled.

Also, people would have been a lot more tolerant of low gas mileage with an extra 50HP to 100HP.

donack456

New Yorkers - You are SO right! Whether it's choosing a sports car, a president, or whether or not to "believe" in evolution—people in this country just don't get it. I remember when we were known for our sound judgment. But today? I'm an Ameri-cun. I don't need to listen to no experts! I'm dumb as a doorknob, talk like I never finished school—and proud of it!


What that is called, is making an intelligent decision base on READING or driving the cars themself. And why are you just picking on the USA buyers there is no country in the world that RX-8 outsells the 350Z or I350 or Mx-5. Russia has stop selling the Rx-8.

The RX-8 will always be a cult car Movies producers, writers, auto mags editors and Rotary fanatics love them, but the general public wants more then innovative ideas they want mpg, reliability and performance. In the case of the RX-8 1 out 3 is not good.

I personally think its a very good looking, practical car and handles like a cheetha and really don't know why its not more popular. But the general publics not buying it. But they ARE buying the MX-5, why? BC they like it and its their choice.

For people to see things different then you don't make them ignorant or dumb, it just mean they have a different opinion which is all part of whats called freedom of thought, and the right to spend your money what U want.

Now that President thing I agree 100%, he into oil and oil companies are raking us over the barrel. Somebodies getting Richer. That's another subject.