AutoWeek Drivers Log Comments on RX-8 (05/14/07)
05-22-2007, 09:50 AM
#76
Well you bring up some fair points—maybe I overreacted a little. And I thought the 8 sold well in other countries—perhaps that's not true.
I guess this is a sore point for me, though, because I do find that, more and more, Americans seem to strangely ignore logic and reason in so many things. So when the 8 wins comparo after comparo and people still go out and choose another sports car, it gives me pause.
Hey, the auto journalists who do these comparos—experts who do nothing but drive and review cars—are well aware of the 8's less-than-stellar power and mileage; it's in their reviews—yet they give it the win anyway because, at the end of the day, it's the car that pleases them most. The buying public, on the other hand, armed with the very same info, chooses a lesser car. (And they'll complain about the 8's poor mileage as they climb back into their other car—a Lincoln Navigator.)
I guess this is a sore point for me, though, because I do find that, more and more, Americans seem to strangely ignore logic and reason in so many things. So when the 8 wins comparo after comparo and people still go out and choose another sports car, it gives me pause.
Hey, the auto journalists who do these comparos—experts who do nothing but drive and review cars—are well aware of the 8's less-than-stellar power and mileage; it's in their reviews—yet they give it the win anyway because, at the end of the day, it's the car that pleases them most. The buying public, on the other hand, armed with the very same info, chooses a lesser car. (And they'll complain about the 8's poor mileage as they climb back into their other car—a Lincoln Navigator.)
05-22-2007, 10:44 AM
#77
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I see your point but I honestly think that the general public after READING then experiencing these cars feel that the Car Editors are judging a new look and feel.
Did you read the C&D repost on the 8 here on this forum. The Mazda RX-8 seems sorta like crack (i've read) an extreme high thats over quickly then its no big deal. The 8 becomes its own victim, in that its so inovative its hard to define it. It does a lot of things well and something not so well.
I hate to admit that when I read these articles that the RX-8 won these camparison because of practicality, because of its rear seats and trunk making it fun to drive. You have to reflect back on the base topic at hand they were evaluating SPORTS CARS, not Sport Sedans or Luxury sport sedans. I've seen videos were the RX-8 was declared the winner of a comparo after losing every event, one drivers comment was that the other cars were driver cars and the 8 would be better for the average driver. Which made it the winner? Thats a personal opinion not track facts.
When has soild torque & power, two seats, quick 0-60 time, fast quarter mile time, good salom times, braking, convertible top, and reliability been a negative in rating SCs.
When I read these articles it seems that the Chevy Vette, Honda S2000 or Z-cars are the truest Sport Car and they sell well, but there far from being a practical vehicle. But are what a SC is or use to be. They do makes a define Statement. Saying "We are Sport Cars".
The Mazda Rx-8 on the other hand looks like a Sports Car but is not as defined, it could be a adequate anything, Sporty Coupe, Sport sedan or Sedan. It's definitely a AutoXer.
You maybe right on one point the USA does (maybe the world) like pulling for the underdog, so the RX-8 mag wins defeats its self. I do see your point in that regard, if thats true, it is kind of oxymoron but its human nature.
Did you read the C&D repost on the 8 here on this forum. The Mazda RX-8 seems sorta like crack (i've read) an extreme high thats over quickly then its no big deal. The 8 becomes its own victim, in that its so inovative its hard to define it. It does a lot of things well and something not so well.
I hate to admit that when I read these articles that the RX-8 won these camparison because of practicality, because of its rear seats and trunk making it fun to drive. You have to reflect back on the base topic at hand they were evaluating SPORTS CARS, not Sport Sedans or Luxury sport sedans. I've seen videos were the RX-8 was declared the winner of a comparo after losing every event, one drivers comment was that the other cars were driver cars and the 8 would be better for the average driver. Which made it the winner? Thats a personal opinion not track facts.
When has soild torque & power, two seats, quick 0-60 time, fast quarter mile time, good salom times, braking, convertible top, and reliability been a negative in rating SCs.
When I read these articles it seems that the Chevy Vette, Honda S2000 or Z-cars are the truest Sport Car and they sell well, but there far from being a practical vehicle. But are what a SC is or use to be. They do makes a define Statement. Saying "We are Sport Cars".
The Mazda Rx-8 on the other hand looks like a Sports Car but is not as defined, it could be a adequate anything, Sporty Coupe, Sport sedan or Sedan. It's definitely a AutoXer.
You maybe right on one point the USA does (maybe the world) like pulling for the underdog, so the RX-8 mag wins defeats its self. I do see your point in that regard, if thats true, it is kind of oxymoron but its human nature.
Last edited by donack456; 05-22-2007 at 10:49 AM.
05-22-2007, 11:10 AM
#78
i pwn therefore i am
Well you bring up some fair points—maybe I overreacted a little. And I thought the 8 sold well in other countries—perhaps that's not true.
I guess this is a sore point for me, though, because I do find that, more and more, Americans seem to strangely ignore logic and reason in so many things. So when the 8 wins comparo after comparo and people still go out and choose another sports car, it gives me pause.
Hey, the auto journalists who do these comparos—experts who do nothing but drive and review cars—are well aware of the 8's less-than-stellar power and mileage; it's in their reviews—yet they give it the win anyway because, at the end of the day, it's the car that pleases them most. The buying public, on the other hand, armed with the very same info, chooses a lesser car. (And they'll complain about the 8's poor mileage as they climb back into their other car—a Lincoln Navigator.)
I guess this is a sore point for me, though, because I do find that, more and more, Americans seem to strangely ignore logic and reason in so many things. So when the 8 wins comparo after comparo and people still go out and choose another sports car, it gives me pause.
Hey, the auto journalists who do these comparos—experts who do nothing but drive and review cars—are well aware of the 8's less-than-stellar power and mileage; it's in their reviews—yet they give it the win anyway because, at the end of the day, it's the car that pleases them most. The buying public, on the other hand, armed with the very same info, chooses a lesser car. (And they'll complain about the 8's poor mileage as they climb back into their other car—a Lincoln Navigator.)
It just comes down to priorities. Those comparisons are about giving a good idea of what a car is like so that you can make your own decision -- not let them make it for you. I'll grant you that most people at least in this country buy their cars without researching at all and probably don't know about the 8 at all. But I still stand by my assertion that the 8 isn't for everyone, especially in this country.
05-22-2007, 11:19 AM
#79
i pwn therefore i am
I don't buy that.
If Mazdaspeed followed through on the supercharger, they have a better chance of passing emissions and delivering more power.
Also, you would think engineers would get into a think tank and think of ways to get the pass. As it was, Mazda pulled some last minute ECU craziness to get the emissions pass in the U.S. That does not look like the mark of well planned or even out the box thinking. Better CAT, ECU changes, different exhaust, etc....
There is almost always an answer, just have to come up with it, even if it means thinking outside the box.
Also, you are talking FI as an option. You are charging the customers that want the power more. So there should be a profit in offering it. Right now, people are going to pro-tuners to buy FI kits, so that's money Mazda never sees. In fact, Mazda just gets complaints for not delivering enough power and looks bad. They have a product that could have been "near-perfect" and fumbled.
Also, people would have been a lot more tolerant of low gas mileage with an extra 50HP to 100HP.
If Mazdaspeed followed through on the supercharger, they have a better chance of passing emissions and delivering more power.
Also, you would think engineers would get into a think tank and think of ways to get the pass. As it was, Mazda pulled some last minute ECU craziness to get the emissions pass in the U.S. That does not look like the mark of well planned or even out the box thinking. Better CAT, ECU changes, different exhaust, etc....
There is almost always an answer, just have to come up with it, even if it means thinking outside the box.
Also, you are talking FI as an option. You are charging the customers that want the power more. So there should be a profit in offering it. Right now, people are going to pro-tuners to buy FI kits, so that's money Mazda never sees. In fact, Mazda just gets complaints for not delivering enough power and looks bad. They have a product that could have been "near-perfect" and fumbled.
Also, people would have been a lot more tolerant of low gas mileage with an extra 50HP to 100HP.
You can think outside the box, but not if it costs millions of dollars. IMO, if they can get a hybrid rotary out to improve mileage and emissions, FI is much more likely.
05-23-2007, 01:14 AM
#80
I just don't think Mazda was (or is) ready for something like that. The RENESIS was too new to slap FI on it and cover it under warranty. And if they charged $5k for it, you're talking about a base model price of $32k.
You can think outside the box, but not if it costs millions of dollars. IMO, if they can get a hybrid rotary out to improve mileage and emissions, FI is much more likely.
You can think outside the box, but not if it costs millions of dollars. IMO, if they can get a hybrid rotary out to improve mileage and emissions, FI is much more likely.
You can put out a Mazdaspeed FI RX-8. A certain percentage of people want the extra power and its obvious they will pay for it.
Pettit's Supercharger kit and Mazsport's turbo kit, make Mazdaspeed personnel and Mazda look like idiots. Mazda should be the expert on developing FI for their own cars. At the very least, they could have contracted it out or gave support to the a pro-tuner shop developing an FI kit.
Mazda engineers could have offered support by programming the ECU for the whatever FI kit they choose. Then slap the Mazdaspeed name on it, put it under warranty, charge some extra money and "presto" Mazdaspeed RX-8.
Mazdaspeed/Mazda just straight out fumbled the project and proved to be lazy. Another fumble by Mazda with a new rotary and they will kill the RX- line. The sad part is that with some better decisions, the rotary could be a major profitable success. Not everybody will love the rotary engine, but with 50HP to 100HP more, less people will have bad things to say and more people would buy them.
05-23-2007, 07:42 AM
#81
Pettit's Supercharger kit and Mazsport's turbo kit, make Mazdaspeed personnel and Mazda look like idiots. Mazda should be the expert on developing FI for their own cars. At the very least, they could have contracted it out or gave support to the a pro-tuner shop developing an FI kit.
I would love to see a 350 whp mazdaspeed RX-8 at our local dealerships, but it's just not going to happen. The power levels that mazdaspeed traditionally increases the base car by is minimal. Most of us looking to FI would be disappointed by the increase in power. A mazdaspeed RX-8 is no holy grail.
The sad part is that with some better decisions, the rotary could be a major profitable success. Not everybody will love the rotary engine, but with 50HP to 100HP more, less people will have bad things to say and more people would buy them.
05-23-2007, 12:06 PM
#82
i pwn therefore i am
And you can't just add FI as an option if only 200 people will buy it. It costs money to train the techs, supply the parts, etc, etc, etc. It's a very complicated process. And most people are not going to drop $10k on FI when they could get a Corvette for about the same price. I'm all for a very fast, great looking car -- I'll just be very surprised if that ever comes out of Mazda.
05-23-2007, 06:02 PM
#83
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^ I was under the impression the Renesis is super-clean, emissions-wise -- but the cat wasn't standing up to the pounding, which is why they did the mess they did in '04 with the ECU. In other words, not because of the Renesis being a dirty lump, just the cat couldn't take the heat of running lean-ish.
Isn't the Renesis emissions compliant world-wide to LEV or better? It's supposed to be worlds apart from the peripheral-port rotaries, emissions-wise.
I don't think emissions are an issue in the renesis, nor are they likely to be an issue in the 5-10 year range. Unless, of course, our dear elected officials decide to go all super-paranoid and declare internal combustion unfit for our Glorious Kountry.
My solution to that? A really, really small nuclear teakettle spinning a small steam turbine, which in turn spins an alternator which in turn juices motors at each of the four corners of the car.
That'd be my fix
(hey, at least it'd still have a turbine in it, and not 2000 pounds of battery.)
Isn't the Renesis emissions compliant world-wide to LEV or better? It's supposed to be worlds apart from the peripheral-port rotaries, emissions-wise.
I don't think emissions are an issue in the renesis, nor are they likely to be an issue in the 5-10 year range. Unless, of course, our dear elected officials decide to go all super-paranoid and declare internal combustion unfit for our Glorious Kountry.
My solution to that? A really, really small nuclear teakettle spinning a small steam turbine, which in turn spins an alternator which in turn juices motors at each of the four corners of the car.
That'd be my fix
(hey, at least it'd still have a turbine in it, and not 2000 pounds of battery.)
05-23-2007, 07:58 PM
#84
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^ I was under the impression the Renesis is super-clean, emissions-wise -- but the cat wasn't standing up to the pounding, which is why they did the mess they did in '04 with the ECU. In other words, not because of the Renesis being a dirty lump, just the cat couldn't take the heat of running lean-ish.
Isn't the Renesis emissions compliant world-wide to LEV or better? It's supposed to be worlds apart from the peripheral-port rotaries, emissions-wise.
I don't think emissions are an issue in the renesis, nor are they likely to be an issue in the 5-10 year range. Unless, of course, our dear elected officials decide to go all super-paranoid and declare internal combustion unfit for our Glorious Kountry.
My solution to that? A really, really small nuclear teakettle spinning a small steam turbine, which in turn spins an alternator which in turn juices motors at each of the four corners of the car.
That'd be my fix
(hey, at least it'd still have a turbine in it, and not 2000 pounds of battery.)
Isn't the Renesis emissions compliant world-wide to LEV or better? It's supposed to be worlds apart from the peripheral-port rotaries, emissions-wise.
I don't think emissions are an issue in the renesis, nor are they likely to be an issue in the 5-10 year range. Unless, of course, our dear elected officials decide to go all super-paranoid and declare internal combustion unfit for our Glorious Kountry.
My solution to that? A really, really small nuclear teakettle spinning a small steam turbine, which in turn spins an alternator which in turn juices motors at each of the four corners of the car.
That'd be my fix
(hey, at least it'd still have a turbine in it, and not 2000 pounds of battery.)
05-23-2007, 10:01 PM
#85
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See here is what I dont get.
Basically the whiner (wear the hat if it fits) decides to buy the RX8 but then decides later that it just aint fast enuff.
So then wouldn't the simple solution be to sell it and buy something else?
If you cant afford to do just that - then tough effing ****. You made the choice, now live by it and quit whining ya pansy.
Basically the whiner (wear the hat if it fits) decides to buy the RX8 but then decides later that it just aint fast enuff.
So then wouldn't the simple solution be to sell it and buy something else?
If you cant afford to do just that - then tough effing ****. You made the choice, now live by it and quit whining ya pansy.
05-24-2007, 02:40 PM
#86
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Filling up with Fuel (Ahh yes, the 8 in it's local habitat!), I gave this Guido (no offense implied) with a loud Hundah Accord no less a look that basically said - "WTF are you doing?" He was backing out of a parking sport with throttle at over 3K rpm making as much - look at me - noise as possible.
He caught me looking, and before I could give him the obligatory sarcastic
he yelled out - "believe it or not - this car is faster than yours!"
To this I simply smiled and nodded.
Some people just don't get it. Life is about choices - if you make one that you regret, move on. If the 8 doesn't have enough power and you can't beat Guido's Honda in a stoplight grandprix drop in a 3 rotor, put in a FI kit, or better yet - swap cars with Guido so you too can be that cool.
Take it to the track - try that braking and turning thing out - it really is more funnerer. stay safe.
He caught me looking, and before I could give him the obligatory sarcastic
he yelled out - "believe it or not - this car is faster than yours!"To this I simply smiled and nodded.
Some people just don't get it. Life is about choices - if you make one that you regret, move on. If the 8 doesn't have enough power and you can't beat Guido's Honda in a stoplight grandprix drop in a 3 rotor, put in a FI kit, or better yet - swap cars with Guido so you too can be that cool.
Take it to the track - try that braking and turning thing out - it really is more funnerer. stay safe.
05-25-2007, 10:28 AM
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More horsepower will cost so much more less would be able buy it.
If Mazda built the RX-8 with more horsepower it would cost so much more that less would be able buy it, as it was with RX-7 and 300zx turbos.
Most Sports car consumers stated that if they were going to spend $39k - $43k for a sports car they'd buy a used Vette, BMW or Porsche.
Only the most die hard Rotary fans would shell out $40k+ for a Mazda Rx8 or Rx-7 or 300zx or 350z.
These cars have their own price hicht, they are consider bargain Sport Cars. Not quite big time players like Porsche, Benz, Bmw, Lotus or Noble.
Most Sports car consumers stated that if they were going to spend $39k - $43k for a sports car they'd buy a used Vette, BMW or Porsche.
Only the most die hard Rotary fans would shell out $40k+ for a Mazda Rx8 or Rx-7 or 300zx or 350z.
These cars have their own price hicht, they are consider bargain Sport Cars. Not quite big time players like Porsche, Benz, Bmw, Lotus or Noble.
Last edited by donack456; 05-25-2007 at 10:31 AM.
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