canzoomer

I am now really wondering what the heck is on with the controls systems on our cars.
Not to mention the service policies of Mazda and it's dealers.

I got an email form a fellow RX-8 owner the other day.
He is having some real issues with missing and bad running on his car.

What his dealer had told him sounded too weird to be true, so I suggested he try another dealer.

The story that unfolds totally blew me away!
Here is a series of emails between us, describing his experience.
Name witheld to protect the innocent.

The first message to me:

"Maurice,

I've only just now found intelligent discussion on the RX8...had mine 3 weeks, and life above 6,000 is misery!!! Cuts out, gets very coarse, sounds like things are getting torn up underhood. Took it to the dealer who said Mazda didn't have a fix...all they could do was reset some part of the engine management software by pumping the brake pedal 20 times in 8 seconds.
And told me to do the same next time that occurred.

Seems a ridiculous thing to be doing in my garage every few days. Is this cutout/nastiness above 6,000 due to the factory mixture program? Are you aware of any solution as opposed to this silly bandaid? Wonderful car, but feeling a bit dejected at its ailments.

Thanks for ANYTHING you can share."

Continued in next post..

canzoomer

Next message. My reply to his first message at the bottom:

"morning xxxxx, THANKS for the quick response last night. I appreciate hearing from someone who knows what's up with the "8" because the dealers' service certainly doesn't...and I've felt pretty adrift and disappointed in my purchase because of it.

Here's what I've noticed (and I'm pretty perceptive to the noises...as my wife will attest!):

It is not terribly rough at idle...certainly not acting like it's missing as you've counseled a couple other owners. Not nearly as smooth as my A4, but nothing about this car is. When I first start it it has a few little pops and crackles which I rather like, but settles into a steady and reasonable idle.

I NEVER get on it until it's well warmed up...which would mean at least 5 minutes and no revs higher than 4k.

After it's warm, I notice two things. Under 5,500 it feels strong but I do hear knocking from underhood...like detonation in a traditional piston engine. I don't know if rotaries are capable of this, but esp around 4,000-4,500 there's definitely a knocking/pinging. I'm still getting used to the sounds a rotary makes, but I don't think, however subtle, that should be one of them.

As I approach 5,500 it starts to get coarse and feel overextended. The sound definitely changes to something much more ragged and strained, and power feels like it's tapping out. If I continue towards 7,000 (which just doesn't feel right the way it's acting) it becomes more coarse, more strained, and starts to sound as if it's cutting out...and occasionally has.
Like it's stumbling to keep up...sounds like the engine is just blowing hot air with nothing productive happening. I've only done that a few times because it feels like I'm tearing something up. If you've ever had really "bad" gas in a car, that's what it acts like. Is this hurting anything?

Aside from an annoying and constant rattle from the instrument binnacle, the car is great. Certainly has an edge the A4 doesn't. It just needs to be in the right state of tune to feel like that edge is justified...kind of
shameful having a car capable of wonderful things at high revs, but it unable to realize it's potential.

I will try another dealer's service shop as you suggest.. An unfortunate consequence of this car is that many of the dealers here in Colorado didn't carry the Mazda line back when the last gen RX7 was around, and have no experienced mechanics to work on this latest iteration. They're all kind of fumbling in the dark...as my last dealer experience attests! Sounds like the plugs are
indeed fouling - reinforcing that is the fact the problem above is getting worse.

Regards,
XXXX

canzoomer

Probably seems pretty boring so far, but here is where it gets REALLY funny!! Ths chap took my advice and got a second opinion at a different dealership service department.

"I just picked up the 8 from a different dealers service dept. Asked what they did to address the pinging/run rich prob. Know what they told me? Yep. Pump brake pedal 20 times in 8 seconds.
Said Ford had communicated this to them for this very problem and they've been advising owners to do this on their own, as needed, every since.
HA! I intentionally didn't reveal the other dealer's "fix" to see what I got here. Basically, ditto.

I pass it on
a) because I said I'd keep you posted, but:
b) in CASE there's some real link between the brake and the ECU. Odd that 2 service depts have said same thing, unless it's Ford's party line for now. I will know on tomorrow's commute if it actually did anything and will let you know.
Best for now, xxxx

Btw: when I went to get in the car I noticed 1) part of the dash cover from under the steering wheel laying in the passenger's seat, which I had them put back on; 2) my stereo turned up way high and on a different channel; and 3) my odometer logging almost 40 miles more than I brought it in with.
Lots of young kids working at that service dept...I think I have my answer there."

Kev

I feel sorry for this guy. This sounds like a "dealers from hell" experience.

I hope there's a happy ending.

compaddict

Sounds like Southpark Mazda!

(sorry)

Vince

pepe

I've found a really good trick re : dealers driving your car while in service. Take a Post-It note, write down both odo and trip metres and leave the post it note on the dash or steering wheel, make sure you write them down somewhere else and take the numbers with you when you go. If you get back and they've done excessive milage, then confront them. My first time in, they did 16km (10 miles) and I thought that was excessive , so I asked about it... now when I take it in? well, never been more than a few hundred metres now

Nubo

The references to FORD explain all. I was hoping this car experience would be mostly Mazda. If this is goinig to be a FORD experience I'm seriously reconsidering my purchase plans.

If it sounds like it's tearing itself at high rpm, then I'd run it the hell high as much as I could, consistent with safety, to get the inevitable over with, and a new engine, and the dealer can pump the inert material of their choice 20 times.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Well, I certainly wouldn't be suprised if pumping the pedal resets the ECU.
That is a carry-over from other Mazda models to some extent. That is how the ABS ECU was reset on any KL powered vehicles as well as others.
However, it usually required that the ECU be in a diagnostic mode of some sort - in the case of the OBD-I cars, this required jumping a set of pins in the diagnostic header. On the early OBD-II machines, you had to have a tool plugged into the data connector.
So far, I have yet to stumble across that in any of the DTC after-repair procedures, but there is still a lot to read.

zoom44

doesn't sound to anybody else like limp home mode? he is having some kind of fault either a misfire or low oil level or pressure or some other thing. so the car goes into limp mode. it wont let him rev it above certain rpms. the car does this also until it is to a certain temperature. the pings he hears at @4k rpm are probably the intake opening, i can certainly hear them on my car. i wonder if he asked them what fault the diagnostic was showing before they did the reset? canzoomer did he get that info?

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

I've never had my car go into limp mode, but I thought that usually triggers a CEL. He also mentioned that it only cuts out occationally. Whatever's happening, it may be getting by the on board diagnostics. If I were that guy, I wouldn't take "pump the pedal a bunch of times" excuse. Get whoever involved so that the ECU, sensor, engine, or whatever replaced so that the car runs normally.

budaman2

Your problem sounds like the same symptoms I had with my demo. When the problem first started, it would be flat above 7000 RPM and eventually would start sputtering and backfiring through the intake which is probably the sound you are hearing on acceleration. Did the brake pumping which didn't help. That apparently reconfigures the crankshaft profile on the ECU. At first the techs thought it was bad fuel or too low of octane. Finally the check engine light came on and showed a code that indicated an excessivly lean fuel mixture. Had several techs come over from Japan because mine was the first one having this problem that showed a code. They fiddled with it for a couple of days and traced the problem back to the O2 sensor. Replaced that and it has been running great since then.

Efini 8

I had the car go into "limp" mode it sucks, cuz the car is slow as hell... Be sure not to rev it too high cuz in "limp" mode the car is running in safety mode so a lot of different changes have occured in comparison to normal mode