BMW previous or curent owners, please give your thoughts
11-12-2003, 07:18 PM
#51
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Originally posted by HKRX8
I will drive a Bimmer because less people have it. but if just talking about $ to $, rx8 is better bang for the buck.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
are you joking?
let me clarify
bimmers are nice
but where I live in cali I see tons of them daily
---------------
I am in Cali too, I am not talking about a 323 328 330 525 528 530 E36 M3 etc what so ever and yes even 5406spd I see more often now, at least once per day, and yes u see those trash 1 everyday, everywhere and everyone has either 1 of them even the guy clean the street.
I will drive a Bimmer because less people have it. but if just talking about $ to $, rx8 is better bang for the buck.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
are you joking?
let me clarify
bimmers are nice
but where I live in cali I see tons of them daily
---------------
I am in Cali too, I am not talking about a 323 328 330 525 528 530 E36 M3 etc what so ever and yes even 5406spd I see more often now, at least once per day, and yes u see those trash 1 everyday, everywhere and everyone has either 1 of them even the guy clean the street.
11-13-2003, 10:14 AM
#53
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E36 M3
Remember, E36 M3 was voted to be the best handling car in the world in 1997, over Viper, Porsche, Lambo, Farrari, .....Current M3's handling is poor compared to the previous gen's.
FYI
I have a 93 Yellow RX7 with 380HP and a
97 Yellow M3 Coupe
FYI
I have a 93 Yellow RX7 with 380HP and a
97 Yellow M3 Coupe
11-13-2003, 02:30 PM
#54
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Is anyone here drove the Z3 coupe or the M coupe? It supposed to be the best handler in the bimmer camp. I just wonderin' how they stack up against the 8 as far as handling is concerned.
11-13-2003, 08:16 PM
#55
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Re: E36 M3
Originally posted by tschangrx7
Remember, E36 M3 was voted to be the best handling car in the world in 1997, over Viper, Porsche, Lambo, Farrari, .....Current M3's handling is poor compared to the previous gen's.
FYI
I have a 93 Yellow RX7 with 380HP and a
97 Yellow M3 Coupe
Remember, E36 M3 was voted to be the best handling car in the world in 1997, over Viper, Porsche, Lambo, Farrari, .....Current M3's handling is poor compared to the previous gen's.
FYI
I have a 93 Yellow RX7 with 380HP and a
97 Yellow M3 Coupe
11-16-2003, 05:40 PM
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Current 3'er chimes in...
First of all, I'll say I hate the Z-series BMW's...
Secondly, I'll say that the 3 series is about the best all-around car you 'll find. They seat 4 people easily, you can see out of them, they have good-sized trunks with the option of fully folding rear seats.
On a 1000 mile road trip a few years ago,I put a racing ten speed bike, a duffle full of cycling gear, a body bag-sized duffle full of clothes, an iMac, an espresso machine, and a bunch of small things in one, and I could still see out all the windows. Additionally, they're very classy vehicles.
They drive better than any other sedan. The inline 6 is a classic engine. It's incredibly smooth - just like a rotary,but it makes much better low and mid rev power. And, they get excellent gas mileage - the current 330i gets 30mpg highway. The 6 sounds incredible on the highway; it's like a leonine symphonic snarl.
BMW has mastered suspension design that is comfortable yet gives great, neutral handling. They take pains to achieve 50/50 weight distribution. And, the interiors are beautiful. Someone just needs to take the current design chief, Chris Bangle, and fire his sorry *ss. His designs are ruining BMW.
The RX8 is a totally different beast. It's much lower to the ground, so it's roll motions will feel different, more lateral, if you will. The rotary is also a smooth engine but lacking in low end torque. The RX, in my opinion, is over-styled, a little too look at me, but the overall shape is very pretty. It doesn't need the rotor motifs, or the two tone interior, or the rice-y tail lights. The 3rd gen RX-7 was so purposeful and pretty and it had none of these styling cues.The RX is also at least 300 pounds lighter than a 3 series so it will feel more tossable.
I'll be buying a new car next spring and I can't afford a new 330ci coupe @ $42k. So I'm looking at the Lexus IS300 and the RX-8. My first car was a '84 RX-7 GSL-SE with the 13B. I loved it, and I've always appreciated the rotor motor and Mazda's take on what a sports car should be.
I know the Lexus will be more practical, get better gas mileage, be more reliable, hold its value better, less "look at me", and it's got a silky smooth inline 6 just like the Beemer.
But the RX is really calling me. It's a great car and it's different from all the rest.
Secondly, I'll say that the 3 series is about the best all-around car you 'll find. They seat 4 people easily, you can see out of them, they have good-sized trunks with the option of fully folding rear seats.
On a 1000 mile road trip a few years ago,I put a racing ten speed bike, a duffle full of cycling gear, a body bag-sized duffle full of clothes, an iMac, an espresso machine, and a bunch of small things in one, and I could still see out all the windows. Additionally, they're very classy vehicles.
They drive better than any other sedan. The inline 6 is a classic engine. It's incredibly smooth - just like a rotary,but it makes much better low and mid rev power. And, they get excellent gas mileage - the current 330i gets 30mpg highway. The 6 sounds incredible on the highway; it's like a leonine symphonic snarl.
BMW has mastered suspension design that is comfortable yet gives great, neutral handling. They take pains to achieve 50/50 weight distribution. And, the interiors are beautiful. Someone just needs to take the current design chief, Chris Bangle, and fire his sorry *ss. His designs are ruining BMW.
The RX8 is a totally different beast. It's much lower to the ground, so it's roll motions will feel different, more lateral, if you will. The rotary is also a smooth engine but lacking in low end torque. The RX, in my opinion, is over-styled, a little too look at me, but the overall shape is very pretty. It doesn't need the rotor motifs, or the two tone interior, or the rice-y tail lights. The 3rd gen RX-7 was so purposeful and pretty and it had none of these styling cues.The RX is also at least 300 pounds lighter than a 3 series so it will feel more tossable.
I'll be buying a new car next spring and I can't afford a new 330ci coupe @ $42k. So I'm looking at the Lexus IS300 and the RX-8. My first car was a '84 RX-7 GSL-SE with the 13B. I loved it, and I've always appreciated the rotor motor and Mazda's take on what a sports car should be.
I know the Lexus will be more practical, get better gas mileage, be more reliable, hold its value better, less "look at me", and it's got a silky smooth inline 6 just like the Beemer.
But the RX is really calling me. It's a great car and it's different from all the rest.
11-16-2003, 05:48 PM
#57
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I have owned a 325i, 330CI, and most recently a 540i 6 speed BMW. (All gone now). Unlike some posters I had no large scale issues with any car. Of these three the 330CI came closest to the RX8 in terms of flat handling. The 3.3l six and 5.4l V8 are really fine engines. The V8's redline was close to 7000 RPM after Dinan modifications, smooth all the way and could pull hard.
However, for the money the RX8 is really hard to beat. The styling, the engine, the fun. Zoom Zoom...
However, for the money the RX8 is really hard to beat. The styling, the engine, the fun. Zoom Zoom...
11-17-2003, 10:38 AM
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Rodsterin, I can see we agree on the key issue, but I couldn't help but disagree with a few of your details:
Said what?
A perfectly reasonable thing to ask, but has a built-in fallacy: which BMW? They do not all handle alike. There's a BIG difference between a 325 with all-season tires, no limited slip, on a base suspension and an M3 CSL with Pilot Sport Cups.
No, not an afterthought. It was BMW realizing they made an error in judgement and addressing the issue.
The E46 sedan will be replaced in 2005 by the E90 as an '06. Which means the revised suspension will have been offered in the 3-Series for four model years in the sedan, five in the coupe.
This is pretty much exactly the choice I'm about to make as well. Cost being a factor, the RX-8 is simply a better value than a 330i. This is why after 4 BMWs, I'm going with the 8. Cost being less a factor, I would have chosen a 330i ZHP.
Misconception. A new BMW costs you zero maint. in the first three years of ownership except for tires and wiper blades. BMW pays for everything else.
This is in interesting, if not slightly loaded statement. My choice of the word "fluid" was not to imply superiority, but rather to characterize and contrast the way the 8 handles, as compared to my BMW.
Like I said in my other posts, there are many things the 8 does better than my M3, but there are some things the M3 is still the benchmark.
I will be surprised if it manages 400+ hp, which is what the M3 will be making by the time the Mazdaspeed RX-8 comes down the pipeline. The normal 8 already has trouble delivering the promised 247. But we'll see..
///M-Spec
Originally posted by RodsterinFL
well, I didn't say it the RX8 bible did!
well, I didn't say it the RX8 bible did!
Originally posted by RodsterinFL
The point is that the question was raised as to comparison handling of BMW's vs. RX8.
The point is that the question was raised as to comparison handling of BMW's vs. RX8.
Originally posted by RodsterinFL
...the fact that the E46 was, as you say, softer calibration, as you agreed, but now they have changed is somewhat of an afterthought on BMW's part since the model life is nearly over in a year or so.
...the fact that the E46 was, as you say, softer calibration, as you agreed, but now they have changed is somewhat of an afterthought on BMW's part since the model life is nearly over in a year or so.
The E46 sedan will be replaced in 2005 by the E90 as an '06. Which means the revised suspension will have been offered in the 3-Series for four model years in the sedan, five in the coupe.
Originally posted by RodsterinFL
As far as the newest "sport" models go, sure, they handle well but how much does one have to pay for that extra "sport" designation? When you compare an RX8 to cars which cost SO much more - well, that in itself is a fallacy. The RX8 wins by default. If someone said to me, Pick one, - RX8 GT with $10K cash in the glove box or a BMW 330i sport, I would pick the RX8 any day.
As far as the newest "sport" models go, sure, they handle well but how much does one have to pay for that extra "sport" designation? When you compare an RX8 to cars which cost SO much more - well, that in itself is a fallacy. The RX8 wins by default. If someone said to me, Pick one, - RX8 GT with $10K cash in the glove box or a BMW 330i sport, I would pick the RX8 any day.
Originally posted by RodsterinFL
The issue is not to just put down BMW - they handle well. They are a good car. They require lots of money to own and maintain (maint, insurance, etc.)
The issue is not to just put down BMW - they handle well. They are a good car. They require lots of money to own and maintain (maint, insurance, etc.)
Originally posted by RodsterinFL
The fluid feel you mentioned of the 8 is a sign of a better driving car - communication to the car.
The fluid feel you mentioned of the 8 is a sign of a better driving car - communication to the car.
Like I said in my other posts, there are many things the 8 does better than my M3, but there are some things the M3 is still the benchmark.
Originally posted by RodsterinFL
Now, when the Mazdaspeed 8 comes, I am sure it will surpass the M3 in power as well.
Now, when the Mazdaspeed 8 comes, I am sure it will surpass the M3 in power as well.
///M-Spec
11-17-2003, 06:25 PM
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While the RX-8 is a great car for the money, the 3-series bimmer has a well-deserved reputation. Let's not forget:
-- According to Car and Driver, here are the 5-60mph times:
330i w/Zhp package: 6.4 seconds
RX-8: 7.5 seconds
While the RX-8 and the 330i have nearly identical 0-60 times, 5-60mph is a much better "real world" performance comparison, since few of us are willing to drop the clutch at 8000rpm as seems to be necessary to hit the sub 6 second 0-60 times.
-- 330i w/zhp package: 21 city / 30 highway
-- Beginning with the 2003 model year, all BMWs include 4 years (not 3) free maintenance.
-- 330i is a true 4 door sedan
Both are great cars!! Enjoy each for what it has to offer.
-- According to Car and Driver, here are the 5-60mph times:
330i w/Zhp package: 6.4 seconds
RX-8: 7.5 seconds
While the RX-8 and the 330i have nearly identical 0-60 times, 5-60mph is a much better "real world" performance comparison, since few of us are willing to drop the clutch at 8000rpm as seems to be necessary to hit the sub 6 second 0-60 times.
-- 330i w/zhp package: 21 city / 30 highway
-- Beginning with the 2003 model year, all BMWs include 4 years (not 3) free maintenance.
-- 330i is a true 4 door sedan
Both are great cars!! Enjoy each for what it has to offer.
11-17-2003, 07:47 PM
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I have a 2001 325is and just test drove the Rx-8 yesterday. I love my BMW, but the Rx-8 can pump up your adrenalin where the BMW can't. My brother just bought a 350z and I drove that too. The Z has more power but not as good handeling around corners.
Sincerely,
Laguna Niguel
Sincerely,
Laguna Niguel
11-17-2003, 09:04 PM
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///Mspec
I wrote a lengthy reply to your message at work's end today and the machine froze.
I was trying to figure out what you said.
The RX8 book by Yamaguchi (I referred to as the RX bible) states that the desingers took the recognized benchmark leader cars and strove to meet or exceed their specs. It mentions that the benchmark car for the chassis was the E36 M3 of which they met one and exceeded one of the chassis specs meaning that in chassis design the RX 8 is every bit as good or better than an E36 M3 - the best 3 BMW has to offer.
Also, they chose the E36 over the E46 because the earlier chassis demonstrated a more sporty character. They chose the M3 because that represented the enhanced chassis.
As to your question of which BMW was I referring to - ALL E36/E46 models - 323 through M3.
The Mazda team use several benchamark cars to insure the RX8's competitive place in the market. Naturally the RX8 isn't the power equivalent to the M3 but it isnt $50K either. GO with a 330i and you get closer to RX performance but still $10K more.
I am not saying that the RX beats ALL the cars out there. What I am saying is that the value/performance is exceptional (not just engine but design too)
Bluemoon, why would Car and Driver use a 5-60 and not a 0-60 time? Because the gearing advantage would be lost. Just about everyine knows that rotaries live on RPM and need it to compete. If you lull one around it has little torque. They also said though the 0-60 was 5.9 seconds. My driving habits have changed and I do rev more than I did with a piston engine.
As a previous BMW owner I know the 3 series BMW is a great car. I just think the RX8 is just as good for a whole lot less money - little less luxury and not a snobby badge appeal - just a great car.
Its like this, I owned a Lexus ES300 and a Millennia S. The Millennia S was a better driving car and WAY CHEAPER than the Lexus but try and tell the brain washed public that and they just laugh in your face and head for the Lexus dealer with a dazed blind look chanting Lexus Lexus Lexus. I had NO trouble with the Millennia mechanics of the car. Lexus? Yup! It is the same situation here with the Mazda and BMW. It is harder to compare due to the vast variations in 3 series models and pricing but nonetheless, looking at the SAME price point, Mazda beats em out.
I would feel so bad if my little rotary blew away the guy in his new M3. He deserves to win with his extra $20K investment. - Even if it is only 1 1/2 car lengths or so ahead. :D
I wrote a lengthy reply to your message at work's end today and the machine froze.
I was trying to figure out what you said.
The RX8 book by Yamaguchi (I referred to as the RX bible) states that the desingers took the recognized benchmark leader cars and strove to meet or exceed their specs. It mentions that the benchmark car for the chassis was the E36 M3 of which they met one and exceeded one of the chassis specs meaning that in chassis design the RX 8 is every bit as good or better than an E36 M3 - the best 3 BMW has to offer.
Also, they chose the E36 over the E46 because the earlier chassis demonstrated a more sporty character. They chose the M3 because that represented the enhanced chassis.
As to your question of which BMW was I referring to - ALL E36/E46 models - 323 through M3.
The Mazda team use several benchamark cars to insure the RX8's competitive place in the market. Naturally the RX8 isn't the power equivalent to the M3 but it isnt $50K either. GO with a 330i and you get closer to RX performance but still $10K more.
I am not saying that the RX beats ALL the cars out there. What I am saying is that the value/performance is exceptional (not just engine but design too)
While the RX-8 is a great car for the money, the 3-series bimmer has a well-deserved reputation. Let's not forget:
As a previous BMW owner I know the 3 series BMW is a great car. I just think the RX8 is just as good for a whole lot less money - little less luxury and not a snobby badge appeal - just a great car.
Its like this, I owned a Lexus ES300 and a Millennia S. The Millennia S was a better driving car and WAY CHEAPER than the Lexus but try and tell the brain washed public that and they just laugh in your face and head for the Lexus dealer with a dazed blind look chanting Lexus Lexus Lexus. I had NO trouble with the Millennia mechanics of the car. Lexus? Yup! It is the same situation here with the Mazda and BMW. It is harder to compare due to the vast variations in 3 series models and pricing but nonetheless, looking at the SAME price point, Mazda beats em out.
I would feel so bad if my little rotary blew away the guy in his new M3. He deserves to win with his extra $20K investment. - Even if it is only 1 1/2 car lengths or so ahead. :D
Last edited by RodsterinFL; 11-17-2003 at 09:14 PM.
11-18-2003, 02:26 PM
#62
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I traded in my 95 M3 to get my RX-8. I loved my M3 but it began to have electrical problems in the dash and rather than take the hit and fix it I decided to get a new car. I test drove an 01 and 03 M3's both were manual 6 speeds. Then I chanced a test drive in the RX-8. The 8 just felt more like a sports car. It does corner very well and is similar to the M3 except that you sit lower and I feel more of a conection with the road. When you hit a corner too hot and the DSC kicks in it is a little bit unerving at first. After I got used to it I have begun to fell more in control. My M3 had more hp and torque. I still love the newer M3's but I had to make the decision between marriage and car payment (my wife forced me to rethink my purchase). I love the car and my monthly payments are about $300 less. Well whatever they are both nice cars and you are lucky if purchase either one :D .
11-18-2003, 08:57 PM
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Okay, just got my R&T magazine yesterday with the specs on the '03 M3 then I pulled the Road and Track Mazda RX-8 data sheet of their site - READY?
Acceleration------------------
0-60
M3 RX8
5.0 5.9
Warranty---------------------
same for both
Stopping Distance-----------
60-0
M3 RX8
112 114
brake rating
same for both
Handling-----------------------
Skidpad
M3 RX8
0.87 0.88
Balance
same for both
Speed thru slalom
M3 RX8
68.3 65.4
MPG--------------------------
M3 RX8
16/23 18/24
Interior Noise--------------
M3 RX8
Idle 53 47
1st@maxRPM 84 76
Constant 70mph 75 72
The M3, BMW's ultimate. A wonderful car. As tested $55,815. The M3 will walk away from an RX8 past 65 mph or so - the advantage being torque vs. gearing as on the RX. Yet I cannot help but realize how similar these cars are in handling performance. As I said before, more money ($25K or so) should give you some advantage. Still, you COULD nearly buy your two favorite color RX8's for the same cost!
Acceleration------------------
0-60
M3 RX8
5.0 5.9
Warranty---------------------
same for both
Stopping Distance-----------
60-0
M3 RX8
112 114
brake rating
same for both
Handling-----------------------
Skidpad
M3 RX8
0.87 0.88
Balance
same for both
Speed thru slalom
M3 RX8
68.3 65.4
MPG--------------------------
M3 RX8
16/23 18/24
Interior Noise--------------
M3 RX8
Idle 53 47
1st@maxRPM 84 76
Constant 70mph 75 72
The M3, BMW's ultimate. A wonderful car. As tested $55,815. The M3 will walk away from an RX8 past 65 mph or so - the advantage being torque vs. gearing as on the RX. Yet I cannot help but realize how similar these cars are in handling performance. As I said before, more money ($25K or so) should give you some advantage. Still, you COULD nearly buy your two favorite color RX8's for the same cost!
11-18-2003, 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by RodsterinFL
Bluemoon, why would Car and Driver use a 5-60 and not a 0-60 time? Because the gearing advantage would be lost. Just about everyine knows that rotaries live on RPM and need it to compete.
Bluemoon, why would Car and Driver use a 5-60 and not a 0-60 time? Because the gearing advantage would be lost. Just about everyine knows that rotaries live on RPM and need it to compete.
and one metric you left out, or the magazine did, is top gear roll-on 30-50 or whatever speed difference. the torque of any bmw will kill the rotary. yes, i admit this time the gearing does make a difference because it'll effect what rpm the engine is at at 30mph, but you still have to face the facts. the engine has less torque so you'll have to drive it differently.
i echo rod's statement. the rx8 is more value for your money because you have excellent handling while giving up some power, but you save a ton of money.
11-19-2003, 07:31 AM
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top gear roll ---
It does give the figures for the mph attained at each gear at maximum RPM.
The cars are nearly the same - a mph difference or so until about 65 mph - then the Bimmer walks away.
If I may say so, The BMW 3 series is an excellent car. I am just elated to find a car that nearly performs the same for a lot less.
It does give the figures for the mph attained at each gear at maximum RPM.
The cars are nearly the same - a mph difference or so until about 65 mph - then the Bimmer walks away.
If I may say so, The BMW 3 series is an excellent car. I am just elated to find a car that nearly performs the same for a lot less.
11-20-2003, 06:14 AM
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I have a 02 M3 and I went to test drive a RX8 recently b/c my gf needed new car. The car did handle very well, but I think many of you are kidding yourself if you're comparing it to a M3. Yes the M3 does push at the limit and it understeers a bit, but it claws through the corner with authority. The stability gives the driver supreme confidence. The RX8 felt lighter and was easier to toss through the corner, but I can't take corners any faster than the M3. The M3 does take a lot of practice to drive well, especially b/c the torque can kick the tail out quite easily.
For those of you ******* BMW's reliability, read this: J.D Power's 2003 "Long Term Dependability" rated Mazda under industry average while BMW rated higher. See this link for the press release:
http://www.jdpa.com/awards/industry/...ID=749&CatID=1
Calling BMW crap because of the price is uncalled for. So if a Dodge SRT-4 can outperform the RX8 at 10K less, does that make the RX8 crap? People buy BMWs for the smooth engine, legendary road feel, nice interior and the otherall package. I know some BMW owners that bash other non-BMW cars... didn't know Mazda owners did that too.
That said, I would choose a RX8 over a 323ci any day. I had a 323ci for 3 years and the RX8 owns it on every level.
I'm still doing my research, that's why I'm on this board. The RX8 seems to be a good car overall, but reading about engine failures and 12/13mpg gas mileage isn't helping.
For those of you ******* BMW's reliability, read this: J.D Power's 2003 "Long Term Dependability" rated Mazda under industry average while BMW rated higher. See this link for the press release:
http://www.jdpa.com/awards/industry/...ID=749&CatID=1
Calling BMW crap because of the price is uncalled for. So if a Dodge SRT-4 can outperform the RX8 at 10K less, does that make the RX8 crap? People buy BMWs for the smooth engine, legendary road feel, nice interior and the otherall package. I know some BMW owners that bash other non-BMW cars... didn't know Mazda owners did that too.
That said, I would choose a RX8 over a 323ci any day. I had a 323ci for 3 years and the RX8 owns it on every level.
I'm still doing my research, that's why I'm on this board. The RX8 seems to be a good car overall, but reading about engine failures and 12/13mpg gas mileage isn't helping.
Last edited by gemusan; 11-20-2003 at 06:23 AM.
11-20-2003, 01:19 PM
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I will agree with gemusan and say that 0-60 mph my M3 was more agressive. I do have to agree that the engine is more smooth in the RX-8. I have to disagree with the findings on the warranty. When you buy an M3 the warranty includes a full maintenance agreement. What does this include? How about free maintenance on the vehicle for 5 years ie., oil changes, all fluids, wiper blades, anything at all except the clutch, tires and brakes maybe? I don't know it may even include those. And on my 95 M3 there was a recall on the radiator cap in 2002 and sure enough when I went in to the dealership for maintenance they found the recall and replaced it for me without my even knowing about it. I wonder if Mazda is going to perform the same way? I hope so but this is of course one of the reasons people will go to BMW for their new car purchases.
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