lucifuge

From my observations and personal experience, I feel the reasons that so many MPG postings come up is for two main reasons.

1. Most people seem to experience a worse than expected fuel economy, that is, compared to what the car is rated at. In every other modern car I've owned, I have fared better than a car's official rating. But with the Rx8, I did about 10% to 15% worse than I would have expected. This was doubly bad from my viewpoint, because I actually didn't go to crazy with it.

2. As it's a sports car, you expect to use more fuel than a daily driver. However, unlike other sports car I'm familiar with, the Rx8 uses a disproportionate amount of fuel when you are simply cruising around town. Other sports cars dont do this. With most other sports cars you can control when you want power and that's when you start to pay for it, fair enough. But you are ALWAYS paying for it bigtime with the Rx8, there's no give in this department. The only exception is highway cruising when you'll hit optimal, but boring performance.

A new owner of an Rx8 WONT KNOW THESE QUALITIES. They have to experience them. So put your abuse in perspective. These are things learnt the hard way.

champi0n

iTrader: (1)

fuel cells are very heavy, very expensive, and very fragile. (Vibration is a huge issue). Also considering the way they work, are not suitable for any cold or moderately cold climate. The efficiency and power is greatly reduced in cold weather that the majority of north america sees. Cost is very expensive as well. Fuel cells have an operating life somewhere in the 100,000 mile range before they must be replaced...

Hydrogen combustion is a much more cost effective method and remains more reliable. While yes infrastructure is an issue, I would say that the safety aspect is not. While it takes less air/fuel mixture to ignite hydrogen in open air, it will not "explode" if the tank happens to be ruptured.

Also compressed hydrogen can be run along with other liquid bio fuels as a catalyst in a regular engine. Such as very low grade gasoline in the regular tank and supplementing hydrogen to help combustion. Hydrogen burns much more efficiently then gasoline, although less "explosive"

While infrastructure remains an "issue", there are plenty of places to get hydrogen. (not as a typical "gas" station).

There might be some videos on youtube where a geo metro is using bio fuel and hydrogen to get 50mpg with very minimal modification to the fuel system other then a *** he turns to adjust the ignition based on the fuel he's using.

I think he has an open carb/intake with xx psi of hydrogen being dumped in as a catalyst to burn the bio fuel. (which he can run on regular gasoline, bio fuel/hydrogen or just straight hydrogen).

hydrogen combustion is far superior to hydrogen fuel cell in terms of cost, weight, reliability, versatility and conversion.

Raptor75

Honda right now has a commercial fuel cell running on the streets of California that is available for lease. Were are the hydrogen internal combustions running? That's right, there are none because it doesn't make sense to make them.

If you take a look at fuel cells over the last 10 years their cost has come down dramatically, life expectancy has increased almost 10 fold and reliability is why up and efficiency is getting better all the time. Oh and they have come down in size to the point of being practical. Most of the space in current generation systems is taken up by re-formulators to hydrogen.

You do realise that fuel cells are in their infancy, right. You also realise that hydrogen combustion is pretty much the best it will ever be, right.

You may not know this but one of the reasons Mazda made a Hydrogen power rotary is because they could. Value engines have problems with the hydrogen feeding into the cylindrers through the valves that makes them poorly suited to running on Hydrogen. It was basically an experiment at Mazda which proved good PR. Nothing more, sorry.

When you compare the energy content of compressed hydrogen to gas you need something like 3 times the volume to have comparable mileage. This is impractical for car use. Now if you had a power source that was 3 times as efficient, that's right FUEL CELL, things start to make sense.

Fuel cells are the future and a hydrogen conversion for combustion is just plain foolish, sorry to be so blunt but these are the facts.

delhi

Because Raptor75 said so?

Sorry to break it to you. But clean diesel is the way of the future for our economy. There's a reason why fuel cell cars aren't taking off in RoW where diesel is still cheaper to run. And this my friend.... is a fact.

Raptor75

No, because common sense says so.

Your view of the future is rather short term and I would agree with you in the short term. The new versions of turbo clean diesels are the way to go. But you may have heard that oil is a limited resource, that means there is only so much of it. Once gone it's fuel cells all the way.

Estimates range from 40 to 100 years before the supply of oil runs out and as the current supply is consumed it will become more and more expensive with more customers world wide looking for it, that includes diesel fuel my friend. It will be a much shorter period then that before fuel cells become more economical then gas/diesel.

Battery power would need a break through to become a better option which could happen but based on the strides made by fuel cells opposed to batteries over the last 20 years, fuel cells is the likely choice.

So as I previously stated common sense points to the fuel cell as the future.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

you're all wrong! the future is in tubes! we will all travel in tubes. according to jack black, the scientists are currently working on the tube technology.

Raptor75

Aways what to ride in a tube.

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

meh, why trade it in and take a huge hit, and why fault the oil companies anyway? Are they to blame for the population increase in ginormous China and other countries like India etc? Is it their responsibility to hand out condoms and birth control pills and a slap on the wrist and tell people " ****, man, quit making babies already!!!!" Business is business, and as mentioned it's nearly impossible for them to not turn a profit so give it a rest already, maybe just blame bush for everything or something as that seems to be the popular thing these days.

Seriously, a better option would be to keep the 8, and buy a cheap 2nd car or even a motorcycle just to drive every day. There's plenty of decent cars out there for less than a grand that get good mileage, would be cheap to insure,and would save your 8 from the daily beating it takes and the gas it eats. This is what I plan to do later this year if things keep escalating, I figure if it costs me 3-400 bucks a month to fill my car, it might be worth it to spend 700-1000 on a beater that costs me closer to 200-300 (if even that much) to fill up a month. Maybe my logic is flawed, but it seems that might be a better long term deal then taking a huge hit and being in debt over a car note an added 5 years on something that I don't even like as much as my 8 to begin with. (assuming the car I pay cash for is reasonably reliable, that would screw me up if it kept breaking every other weekend etc.)

Stavesacre21

The scions were never my cup-o-tea, but whatever suits you bro. I loved my 8 for what it was also, but eventually moved on as well. While i do miss it's handling and looks, I've yet to see reason to look back. Got out from under it before it's resale dropped too much, and found myself fitted with an MS6 which has suited my personal needs for a DD worlds better.

I also loved this forum. A lot of great people here to help you with any problems you might experience during ownership.

Speaking thereof, is Ike still trolling these parts nowadays?