Car Weight & Safety (Dad not Dead)
05-19-2003, 11:38 PM
#26
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Well, the study was asking whether SUV's are safer than cars, since that's a common presumption. In particular, "is car weight a good predictor of risk"? This is what the NHTSA and IIHS tell us: that all else being equal, a heavier vehicle does better in a crash. This appears to dispute this a priori presumption. Not that it says compact cars are necessarily safer, but that they aren't necessarily more dangerous. I actually fail to see the conclusion in that study that SUV's are less safe than subcompacts, at least as a class of vehicle, so I'm not sure where you got that from.
Note that "Average subcompact and compact cars have similar combined risk as average SUV". Admittedly they're using 1995 vehicles to normalize model year variation, and they're using truck based SUV's, but still. They're also saying subcompact & compact car fatality rates get thrown off because Neon, Escort, Cavaliers are poorly designed and kill more of their occupants; better designed compact cars (Civic, Jetta) aren't as dangerous.
In particular, "Quality of vehicle design appears to be a better predictor of risk than vehicle weight". I brought this study up specifically because it's at odds with NHTSA and IIHS conclusions.
(And a moderator apparently merged threads - I didn't purposefully hijack the Dad one)
Note that "Average subcompact and compact cars have similar combined risk as average SUV". Admittedly they're using 1995 vehicles to normalize model year variation, and they're using truck based SUV's, but still. They're also saying subcompact & compact car fatality rates get thrown off because Neon, Escort, Cavaliers are poorly designed and kill more of their occupants; better designed compact cars (Civic, Jetta) aren't as dangerous.
In particular, "Quality of vehicle design appears to be a better predictor of risk than vehicle weight". I brought this study up specifically because it's at odds with NHTSA and IIHS conclusions.
(And a moderator apparently merged threads - I didn't purposefully hijack the Dad one)
05-20-2003, 12:14 AM
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Changed Topic
I think Deks missed the point of this original thread, because it involved budget criteria, engineering solutions and niche
vehicle use or multi-use. It is true that if Safety is your top priority
as Volvo has promoted, and shifts in buyer's knowledge and awareness (thru' gov't. and manuf. push) has swayed purchase decisions, then families can be safer. I've edited my original post to now include my commentary on safety. But "Dad not dead"
is not the original point. "Dad living a well-rounded family
lifestyle, enjoying the zoom-zoom, the thrill of motion and the choices he makes for vehicles was THE ORIGINAL THREAD!
Thread Hijacking, no matter how very informative everyone has been, should be as unsafe here as a car crash out there. Drive Safely!
vehicle use or multi-use. It is true that if Safety is your top priority
as Volvo has promoted, and shifts in buyer's knowledge and awareness (thru' gov't. and manuf. push) has swayed purchase decisions, then families can be safer. I've edited my original post to now include my commentary on safety. But "Dad not dead"
is not the original point. "Dad living a well-rounded family
lifestyle, enjoying the zoom-zoom, the thrill of motion and the choices he makes for vehicles was THE ORIGINAL THREAD!
Thread Hijacking, no matter how very informative everyone has been, should be as unsafe here as a car crash out there. Drive Safely!
05-20-2003, 09:07 AM
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Well, I was replying to <pelucidor> with my last response - I had started another thread that got merged (not by me) with <G-man>'s Dad not dead thread about transportation choices. After the merge, I'm just following what's on topic.
On the other hand, I'd be rather surprised if someone was cross shopping a (new) Prius and the 8. I'm sure someone somewhere is, but it seems like an odd juxtaposition.
On the other hand, I'd be rather surprised if someone was cross shopping a (new) Prius and the 8. I'm sure someone somewhere is, but it seems like an odd juxtaposition.
05-21-2003, 01:36 AM
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Well, apologies then.
And it is an odd juxtaposition--deliberately. I'm learning
here. What quality will come with this completely new THS II
platform keeping same Prius name? Toyota says:
1.)Camry 4 cyl. acceleration (overtaking acceleration at mid speeds could be equivalent).
and 'fun-to-drive' dynamics. (albeit fwd/not 50:50 balanced)
2.)Aside from more than double MPG, hwy promises better
and quieter due to .26 Cd.
(I think we should be aware, at a minimum)(even beating fuel cells on well-to-wheel analysis of efficiency)
3.)Hatchback, foldable seats, and perfectly flat trunk entryway
has some potential good uses.
4.)Dash Push Button starter/keyless unlocking.
Again I thought the Dads (and geeks) would like to be aware
of latest technology. Even RX330 Hybrid will be giving V8 performance with 4 cyl. MPG. Interesting to me anyways!
Deks re-read the G-man's post--it is NOT about cross-shopping.
And it is an odd juxtaposition--deliberately. I'm learning
here. What quality will come with this completely new THS II
platform keeping same Prius name? Toyota says:
1.)Camry 4 cyl. acceleration (overtaking acceleration at mid speeds could be equivalent).
and 'fun-to-drive' dynamics. (albeit fwd/not 50:50 balanced)
2.)Aside from more than double MPG, hwy promises better
and quieter due to .26 Cd.
(I think we should be aware, at a minimum)(even beating fuel cells on well-to-wheel analysis of efficiency)
3.)Hatchback, foldable seats, and perfectly flat trunk entryway
has some potential good uses.
4.)Dash Push Button starter/keyless unlocking.
Again I thought the Dads (and geeks) would like to be aware
of latest technology. Even RX330 Hybrid will be giving V8 performance with 4 cyl. MPG. Interesting to me anyways!
Deks re-read the G-man's post--it is NOT about cross-shopping.
Last edited by gord boyd; 05-21-2003 at 04:11 AM.
05-21-2003, 01:44 AM
#30
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this is kinda off topic, but gman, what do u do cuz i need to be doing what you are doing... i am 24 and make decent jack this year, but it would be nice to have 4-5 cars LOL...
anyways, i can envision the rx-8 to be a primary car for the guy... can haul two kids, decent trunk for short trips... usually the wives like the sedans and SUVs, so those cars can be used for long trips...
anyways, i can envision the rx-8 to be a primary car for the guy... can haul two kids, decent trunk for short trips... usually the wives like the sedans and SUVs, so those cars can be used for long trips...
05-21-2003, 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by danielk015
... anyways, i can envision the rx-8 to be a primary car for the guy... can haul two kids, decent trunk for short trips... usually the wives like the sedans and SUVs, so those cars can be used for long trips...
... anyways, i can envision the rx-8 to be a primary car for the guy... can haul two kids, decent trunk for short trips... usually the wives like the sedans and SUVs, so those cars can be used for long trips...
:D
05-21-2003, 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by gord boyd
... new THS II platform keeping same Prius name? Toyota says:
1.)Camry 4 cyl. acceleration (overtaking acceleration at mid speeds could be equivalent).
and 'fun-to-drive' dynamics. (albeit fwd/not 50:50 balanced)
2.)Aside from more than double MPG, hwy promises better and quieter due to .26 Cd.
(I think we should be aware, at a minimum)(even beating fuel cells on well-to-wheel analysis of efficiency)
3.)Hatchback, foldable seats, and perfectly flat trunk entryway has some potential good uses.
4.)Dash Push Button starter/keyless unlocking.
Again I thought the Dads (and geeks) would like to be aware of latest technology. ...
... new THS II platform keeping same Prius name? Toyota says:
1.)Camry 4 cyl. acceleration (overtaking acceleration at mid speeds could be equivalent).
and 'fun-to-drive' dynamics. (albeit fwd/not 50:50 balanced)
2.)Aside from more than double MPG, hwy promises better and quieter due to .26 Cd.
(I think we should be aware, at a minimum)(even beating fuel cells on well-to-wheel analysis of efficiency)
3.)Hatchback, foldable seats, and perfectly flat trunk entryway has some potential good uses.
4.)Dash Push Button starter/keyless unlocking.
Again I thought the Dads (and geeks) would like to be aware of latest technology. ...
I just wish it looked and acted more "sporty" and was more of a sleeker styled sport car - yeah sure it's areodiamic right now, but somehow the overall design is missing something for me. Maybe it's the shape and way the A, B, C & D pillars look right now ... although I have no better sugestion on what I'd like to see better ...
... other than a RX-Hybrid based on the Mazda 6 that blended the looks of the old MX-3's and MX-6/Probe for styling clues!
:D
Last edited by bwayout; 05-21-2003 at 01:08 PM.
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