frank621

I just hired a lemon law attorney. since my car has been in the shop over 30 days, I am entitled to have them repurchase the vehicle or replace. Bu bye RX-8......

mysql101

RENE, I hate to disagree with you, but I think the majority of the RX-8 owners are happy with their car. As others have pointed out, if all is going well, there is little to post/complain about. when things are going badly, then you have something to fume over.

My RX-8 has not had any issues in the 2 months that I've had it.

RENE

Like I said glad to hear Jason. However, it is only 2 months. I'm sorry but it is **** poor to have problems of this magnitude in a 30K vehicle (new or not).

And if they had this problem with the cat in the RX-7 why didn't anyone fix it before the RX8 came out? Why do they have to use fuel to cool the cat? Figure something else out for 30 grand.

KANE

zoom44

leaving your car in the service depot for 30 days waiting for a non-safety part is not going to get you anywhere on the lemon law. you could have driven it this whole time. would they not give the car back?

JimW

I'm sorry to hear about all the problems and it is a big hassle when someone has to go through this with all the time consuming aggravation that come with it. I still love the car and would hope that Mazda does something about it rather than having lawsuits sort it all out.

IKnowNot'ing

What else do you want them to use? Haagen Dasz? That's how it's done and the fuel enrichment for cat protection only comes up when it's needed!

RENE

For 30 grand plus: They should figure out a way to get more than 18 mpg city. That's pathetic. Why doesn't the s2000 have cat. problems. It redlines at 9,000 RPM's.

Mazda techs tell me the CAT life is horrible b/c RX needs extra fuel to cool the CAT due to the heat generated by the "high revving engine."


BS,BS,BS=If that's true, then I understand why Honda is a better vehicle than Mazda.

zoom44

ok there are 2 seperate issues at work here. first is the new califonia emissions testing standard that says the motor vehicle's cat must be above a certain temperature within 5 minutes or it fails their emissions testing. in order to meet this standard the auto manufacturers started placing the cats closer to the engine so that the temp is reached within the time limit. second is the new federal law for cat longevity. basically the test is if the cat gets above a certain temperature during normal operation then they believe the cat will fail before the prescribed amount of miles. all manufacturers that are so far complying with this new standard are using extra fuel to cool the cat. this is not just a mazda thing. it is an industry wide issue that all companies will have to address very soon. but it is a particular issue with the rotary because it's exhaust is normally hotter than a piston. not because of the revs as the tech told you, but because of the amount of combustions going on in the rotor chambers. it is constantly combusting instead of the pistons every 4 strokes

as for your last complaint about gas mileage- did you not know the epa numbers when you bought the car? if the epa tested 18 mpg was too low for you then you should not have bought the RX-8. it doesn't make sense to complain about it now.

RENE

Oh I knew the gas mileage, however, I and many other members get no where near that (even with the CAT problem fixed).

Oh ya, you want more oddities: The passenger xenon is fading 5500 miles. A/C blows cool but not cold (another bulletin), brakes SQUEAK at low speeds badly, etc.

RENE

TORacing

Dude yours is just on the fritz, Besides what are we to due about it if all the RX-8's have bad CATs. Just stop saying hey all of you guys are going to wind up on the side of the road, instead wish us luck and hope it's not a problem with all 8's. Get your 30 grand back and go buy that S2000 if it doesn't have any problems, when it has a problem too then you'll realize that all cars have some hick-ups but that doesn't mean the whole line has it. I just hope it doesn't become a problem.

Jeffjett

Sorry about your problems. Mine perfect so far.

IKnowNot'ing

The S2000 probably needs some cooling by overfuelling too. They might have cat problems too, who knows. Buy one and go fing out.
And I can confirm that even the Ford Focus 2.0L has it implemented!

RENE

New Cat. brought back the power and most of the Gas Mileage. However, I still get 17 MPG Highway. Nothing like the 22 they claim.

For the first time in 2 months, no major nightmares with the RX, in the name of The Father and The Son and The Holy Ghost, AMEN!

Oh ya, I hope this doesn't happen to all of you guys. There Horse, I don't want to seem too pessimistic. I was just blowing off some steam. These dealer visits to fix my 8 are 45 minutes each way and 3 vacation days at work so far. I think I'm entitled to a little bitchin'----My apologies if it went overboard.

RENE

x3dfxWolfeman

Well, I purchased mine used, and have had the following problems with it:

Service Trip 1)
- M Flash
- Airbag sensor TSB
- Driver side seat squeaked
(all fixed in less than an hour)

Service Trip 2)
- 'L' (?) flash
- First Oil Change

Service Trip 3)
- AC Amp (out of stock, I kept the car until they got the part, had it installed in about 2 hours)

Aside from the Oil Change, all covered under warranty

This compared to these other cars my wife and I have owned:

2000 Jeep Wrangler (owned for 2 years, sold)
- twice had to have the airbag sensor replaced
- dashboard instruments would fail, randomly, at speeds over 50mph
- column would lock the key in the ignition, randomly, had key-slot replaced twice
- AC would leak water from the condensor into the Passenger-Side footwell every summer

2000 VW Cabrio (owned for 2 years, sold)
- Driver and Passenger side power windows would short, peridocially, preventing the auto down and auto up commands from completing
- Roof leaked, leading to mildew in the driver and passenger side floorboards (a stink like you wouldnt believe). Replacement seals for the covertable roof cost more than the roof itself (!!!!!)

2000 Nissan XTerra (owned for five years, still a proud owner)
- Airbag sensor replacement
- Spot weld to repair a cable bundle that had broken loose behind the dash
- New Battery cables


That being said, I've been extremely happy with the RX8. Its had its foibles, sure, but none of the problems I have had aren't covered by the warranty, and only one - the ac - have I seen any change after repairs were completed. The dealership I take mine for repairs has an excellent staff and well over 5 rotary techs onsite, and has always had the car back sooner than promised, as well as dropped me in a rental if I was leaving it during a work day.

I would have no problem recommending either a Nissan or a Mazda to any friend or relation looking at getting a new car

TORacing

I'm glad your problem has been solved and I hope you don't have any more problems with your 8.

RX8_Buckeye

Okay RENE, I need to dispute a lot of the things you've said, because you haven't been objective about this at all.

Ford owns about 35% of Mazda and does have a controlling interest in the company. However, for the most part, Mazda's product development is completely independent of Ford's. I should know because I'm a Ford product development engineer in Dearborn. The RX-8 was designed in Japan by Mazda engineers. There were no Ford engineers involved in the development of the vehicle. I'm not saying that's true for all Mazda vehicles, however.

Actually, there are no more complaints than with any other brand new vehicle. I have access to our internal quality research reports as well as summaries of the external reports (JD Power and such), which are based solely on customer surveys, and I can tell you that the RX-8 scores comparably to any other new vehicle out there. I'm basing this statement on hard statistics, unlike your unfounded speculation based on a bad personal experience and conversations with the all-knowing Consumer Affairs rep.

All (and I do mean ALL) manufacturers face civil lawsuits on a daily basis, and most of them are settled out of court for the very reason you mentioned. Why do you think automotive companies have huge law departments? I have no doubt that your claim is true, but it certainly isn't out of the ordinary and it's nothing to be alarmed about. People sue over anything these days when they smell money.

It's not BS. You obviously have no idea what it takes to bring an all-new vehicle to market. There are hundreds of possibilities. Maybe there was a bad production run of converters due to operator error or some other factor. Maybe they were damaged in transport. Maybe they got bad materials from a supplier. No manufacturer can check every component installed on a vehicle--it's just not possible. But your claim of a design defect holds no water. If the problem was as widespread as you claim, why isn't it reflected in the customer surveys? Why is this thread the first I've ever heard of it? You really need to calm down and think about things rationally. I'm sorry you got a vehicle with a bad part... it happens, and it always will happen. There's no need for all this ranting and raving.

RENE

Buckeye:

I understand you want to defend the RX and I will too when it is deserved. However, I don't have time to match your NY Times Best Seller reply.

I'll make this short. I do understand the auto industry very well. As a matter of fact, it my families business that I worked in before I got into computers.

Bottom Lines-----This is a 30K+ car which shouldn't be compared to Ford Focus or Taurus or other low end, first time cars. The major DEFECTS I mentioned are pitiful and are not commonplace amongst new vehicles that are THIS EXPENSIVE. Obviously, the Focus will have 30 recalls, it's barely 15K.

And if you haven't read other threads related to my thread, other members are pissed and are having problems. I don't buy the "you have a lemon crap." The CAT is a major defect along with the fuel economy, tailights, oil pan, headlights, rotor seals leaking already, transmission failures.

Hello, I know you love the RX. Smile and knock on wood if you don't have these issues. Many do though, so be in denial if you want...................BUT A GREAT FIRST YEAR CAR IT IS NOT............MY OPINION.

Well see, if car and driver keeps it on their 10 best list next year???? I doubt it!

RENE

RX8_Buckeye

RENE,

You're ignornig the hard facts: the customer surveys don't back up your claims. You have no idea what percentage of owners are experiencing these problems and yet you insist that there are major defects. Maybe you and a few others had defective cats. I'm not disputing that. But how can you claim that there are design defects when such a small percentage of owners are reporting major problems?

I'm not just comparing the RX-8 to cheap models when it comes to quality. My statements were referring to ALL new 2004 models. Ford's internal quality research system and the external reports benchmark all vehicle makes.

It doesn't sound like you know the auto industry very well. You made a huge fuss over the "class action lawsuit" against Mazda, when anyone familiar with the industry knows that this is a daily occurence. Defects have very little to do with the MSRP of a vehicle. I don't know why you keep playing up that point. You think it's more acceptable that a Focus has a safety defect than an RX-8? I don't think you'll get many people to agree with you on that one.

BTW, the Focus recalls were due to a very bad launch here in the US. It was a great car in Europe before it was brought over, and it's now a great car here in the US since the launch issues have been corrected. It's in C&D's 10 Best.

RENE

Not a few my friend (as far as the CAT problem is concerned). Call Irvine, CA if you really believe it is a few CAT problems. My dealer in NY say they have replaced (and this is one dealer) over 50 CAT's already on the RX-8.

The RX-7 had major CAT issues as well. Talk to an RX tech who fixes them regularly. I now know mine personally (unfortunately).

You seem to rely on customer surveys which are never filled out by half the buyers. They won't send one to me either b/c I bought it used--so they will never get my survey and trust me---they don't want it.

Oh ya, you don't really believe they would publish many of the bad surveys that were returned, do you?

Come on:
1. It would hurt sales of the RX
2. It would hurt Mazda's image
3. The Media would now have a new bashing story.

But wait, Corporate America doesn't lie or deceive the public by making their image and profits look better than they really are.

Anyway, I'm through with the pissing contest. I'm happy for today until something hits the checkbook next week.

RENE

RX8_Buckeye

You know what, you're right. The surveys I'm relying on cannot be trusted at all. I would definitely put more stock in your dealer's claim that he's replaced 50 cats on the 50 RX-8's he's sold. I apologize for being so thick-headed about this.

This makes absolutely no sense. Ford's internal quality research isn't published. It's for the company's own benchmarking purposes. Of course the company wants to know how its vehicles are performing compared to the industry leaders, so why would they skew the data? Also, JD Power has no reason to throw out bad surveys. You think they favor the RX-8 over other vehicles and intentionally discard bad surveys? LOL. That's absolutely ridiculous.

RENE

APOLOGY ACCEPTED (lol0

I never said they sold 50 RX-8's. I didn't buy mine there. I bought it in Connecticut. They are just the only dealer within 45 miles so I do believe their claim, the tech line in IRVINE, CA, and the some of the members on our site. Or maybe, they were replacing the defects on the lot.

The RX tech said and I paraphrase "I've replaced a good amount of these CAT's already but yours was the worst. It was disintegrated on the inside."

Did you read other post within this thread and the other CAT thread? Just curious? And these are the folks who found the thread and have the honesty to admit the problem.

Some may be too embarhassed to admit they bought a 30K car that has CAT problems already. That's OK though.

Some have CAT problems and don't know it either. See the check engine light threads, the RPM problems threads, and the horrible gas mileage threads: All tell- tale signs.

Listen, you are probably right somewhat and vice versa. If you want to trade cars with me and experience my issues for a week, be my guest. I'll look for a similar frustration thread a week af ter the swap happens.

RX8_Buckeye

You're probably right about the truth being somewhere between what each of us is claiming. I guess it is possible that many people have this problem and don't realize it. I certainly would be very upset if I had an experience similar to yours, so I don't blame you for being upset.

Being an engineer in this industry, I get defensive when people start making bold claims about design defects. I know how much work goes into putting together an awesome piece of machinery like the RX-8. I know that the exhaust/emissions group at Mazda would not knowingly allow the vehicle to go to market with a glaring catalytic converter defect. There is an unbelievable amount of testing that goes on before launch, including durability and reliability of components. If there were a major problem with catalytic converter life, it is improbable that it would have gone undetected in the design verification stage. But hey, I guess anything is possible.

The whole PCM reflash issue at US ports baffles me for this very reason. Engineers should have known about the US government's catalytic converter life requirement from the very beginning and incorporated that in their durability targets. It seems that somebody dropped the ball big time on this one.

RENE

That's all you had to say. I didn't know you were an engineer in the industry. I guess I was "spitting on your home cooked well-prepared, long fought dinner" in a sense. My fault.

I was curious as to the strong defense. That answers it.

I just want my car to work correctly, that's all. I feel like a parent with the smelly kid in school, if you know what I mean. You want them to just take a bath but they refuse. (lol)

Everything is OK for now though. I have to go from NY to SC in a week though. Crossing my fingers.

RENE