Torque is overrated

 

I was once smoked by a heavily modded diesel by many lengths when I owned my MSP at the drag strip. It had Torque but I would definitely not want to drive that thing on a road course at speed.

 

Where to start...

"Have you read any of the polls here on engine replacements?" ...yep, there's one Canadian thread in particular that shows 3 out of 45 - hardly alarming stuff - the one guy I know bought his car used and his engine blew - sorry, you buy used you roll the dice on anything. Besides, do you think these forums are accurate?

"Honestly how many 8 owners have you met with over 100k on a single engine?" ...there's actually a surprising number on a thread started by expo, surprising because most people don't drive that many miles on average (the 8 is still relatively new). My 8 daily driver is nearing 5 years and I have about 40000 miles on it.

"Also, I said, "they seem to have addressed" the issues with the 09+. Get your **** straight." ...ok, and I betcha the 2010 are the best yet...what's the point?

"unfortunately the engine is doomed from a design standpoint" ...makes one wonder why they still sell them and why I have a free 10 year warranty.

Dude, I'm just countering your assertion that "most" find serious enough problems with the 8 that you wouldn't recommend it as a DD.

 

5abivt couple of things I want to point out about things you mentioned and esp. as you live in Canada and at least in Quebec and Ontario (places I frequent) the roads really suck pretty bad.

...to wit, the stock 8 is a great compromise car on public roads, handling and ride wise. It's supple, smooth, yet can turn on a dime, with great responsive handling. Tracking it will bring out the compromises made and it's quickly obvious it way too soft for serious track use. So then the answer is shocks and springs or better, coilovers so you can lower it, but not slam it.

You mention you want to lower it, coilovers, whatever... and then you'll quickly find the ride gets too stiff, esp for bad roads. It's a low car already and you take an 30-50mm out and it get's really low (bang!) and stiff.

There's just one way to have it lowered and maintain the good (or at least acceptable) ride. You'll need to balance the lack of spring/shock travel with more sidewall flex...so 17s are a must with a bit wider cross section on the tires to get back the ride lost to lowering.

It doesn't do much at all to the handling, esp. if you get good tires, doesn't look bad at all (but not as nice as 19") but it's either that or you'll get pounded as a DD. Just so you know.... eh?

 

I don't doubt it, but go to your local bar and repeat:
"my wankel is as quick as your Ford 2-valve SOHC V8 designed in 1991," and see what reactions you get

 

9291150

Yeah, lets look at engine replacements in cold *** Canada.

The overalls polls I have seen seem to put replacements in the 20-30% range. I am willing to bet a large percentage of those engines operate in high heat environments. 20-30% is a lot considering every time I had a replacement there were at least two other 8's in there that were owned by people that probably don't visit this forum. I don't need to go by what the forum shows anyway, I know several local people who have had engine replacements despite daily redlining and on time oil changes. As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, the only ones who have not had new engines drive 07+ 8's.

Like I said, one (of four) dealer here has done hundreds and yes I have seen Expo's thread and hardly any of those people are around anymore and there were very little to begin with, not sure what you think that thread proves, not to mention Expo's engine died shortly after.

I'm not saying the engine is a complete POS, I love it, but as an owner with over 100k on his car and more years of ownership than most here, I can say that IMO, I would not consider it completely reliable because the engine problems are not the only issues. I am very up front with potential buyers unlike many who sugar coat ****. My dedication to this car proves my love for it.

I don't know why you have a free 10 year warranty, you bought it? What teh hell doe sthat have to do with anything?

They are still being sold because they are still on the road and people still owe money on them, do you expect people to junk them or what? Why do you think the resale is so shitty?

The proof that the Series I engine is faulted from a design standpoint in terms of longevity is proven by the fact that Mazda made serious changes to the Series II Renesis.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

I guess the resale value is one of the obvious attraction points. So what does regular and routine maintenance look like on this motor? Anything that is diy that can be done? I definitely HATE dealerships. My vette hasn't seen a dealer in 12 years nor has my z in a year. I refuse to go yo dealers unless it's absolutely necessary. In my experience most employees are idiots, are learning, don't give a crap cuz it's not their car or just want money from big jobs. For maintenance or routine jobs that require special tools or a hoist I usually go to a performance shoppe. I'm pretty sure there's lots of iMport tuner shoppes in the Toronto area that have experience with.the r8.

How much does an engine rebuild cost? Is there an equivalent of a heads/cam with a rebuild on the wankels?

 

The 8 might very well be as unreliable as you say it is, but you can't really conclude that from what you read on this forum. Anyone who's studied statistics will tell you the "polls" you see here are not scientifically valid, primarily because they are not based on a representative sample of all RX-8 owners. In fact, in can be argued that the small sample here is most likely not representative. Most car owners who bother to find their way to an internet forum are there because they are experiencing problems. You tend not to hear from the many whose cars are running just fine - they don't go to the trouble of posting just to say "Last weekend, while driving home from school, my RX-8 did not start making strange noises and losing power." By and large, we don't hear from those people.

That said, Consumer Reports now puts the RX-8 on their list of Worst Used Cars because their survey indicated "much-worse-than-average reliability". That's more valid, as their sample is more representative of all owners.) My point is simply that you can't deduce unreliability from what you read here.

That's what known as anecdotal evidence:

From Wikipedia:
"Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence. For example "my grandfather smoked like a chimney and died healthy in a car crash at the age of 99" does not disprove the proposition that "smoking markedly increases the probability of cancer and heart disease at a relatively early age". In this case, the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion.
In both cases the conclusion is unreliable; it may not be untrue, but it doesn't follow from the "evidence".
Anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a "typical" experience; statistical evidence can more accurately determine how typical something is."


Again, anecdotal.

The fact that Mazda made changes to the Series II Renesis does not, in fact, "prove" that the Series I engine is "faulted from a design standpoint in terms of longevity". Yes, in fact, that might be the reason for the changes, but that's not the only possible explanation. Another explanation might be that, unlike piston-engined cars, the 8 has a relatively small tolerance for owner neglect (i.e. not checking oil, not adding oil, not redlining the engine regularly, revving it before it's warm, etc.) Mazda's changes might have been made to increase that margin of error.

 

^ i second that the driver also plays a huge part ... not saying the 8 is fast but its acceptable for a sports car with a 1.3 in it and its not slow either i mean in the real world of everyday driving its not horrible ... i love my 8

EDIT that was in reply to 9ks driver mod statement ... didnt see a second page

 

I've had the pleasure of ripping a Miata on a racetrack. I'm just expecting the smooth solid feel and handling and a smooth revving motor to make it enjoyeable.

 

yep, thats me. 3rd gear is pretty damn nice in the rx8. i only slowly lost ground to my friends 400whp 99 z28 in 3rd gear. only when i shifted to 4th was it all over.

i dunno, my rx8 is going to stop being my dd. its just too damn fragile. im always worried about the engine and/or the transmission. im on my 2nd transmission and i know people (on here) on their 3rd. or on their 2nd or 3rd engine. i mean, if you plan to drive it gently, the car will last. but where is the fun in that? this car is a lot of fun to really drive, and sadly, it just doesnt really hold up to that.

 

Nice to see that this has turned into a reliability argument thread.

OP. The RX8 is definitely a different animal from what you own. I would recommend driving as many as you can and see how you feel about it. Gas mileage isn't great, but I daily drive mine and still love it. Many other's do too. Take your time and find one that's been well maintained and you'll be fine. Sounds like you're doing a lot of research and have a good grasp on what you're getting yourself into. It isn't a fast car in a straight line, but it's quick enough to get you into trouble. In the twisties however, it can be very fast and it will put a smile on your face, no matter what you're coming from.

 

IMO, you sound like you'd love the 8, as long as you can deal without power on the street (compared to what you drive.) I came from a miata, so the 8 feels fast.

The 8 is really refined. It has a great chassis. It is great to toss on backroads. It is great cruising on the interstate. It is great for date nights, and it is great fun to drive too fast on your way to work every day. I just know that it will be underwhelming in power compared to your current cars, so you'd just have to answer the question of whether or not you'd be okay with that long term.

Driving an underpowered car on the track (like that miata) is different than driving an underpowered car every day on the street. On the track, you're pushing at 10/10ths so your excitement level is high. On the street, you can't always drive at 10/10ths, so that excess of power helps fill the excitement void, especially when driving a boring road.

 

I tried to summarize some things that can be done to improve durability for the Series I (2004-08) in this thread:

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/my-sneaky-plan-extend-engine-life-series-i-190372/

Whether they actually work is open to (endless) debate. The series II has higher oil pressure, additional oil injection ports, a better oil metering pump, and better water pump. Time will tell on that.

 

what year is the series II ?? Yesterday I saw a rx8 in the snow and it looked sexy as hell.