carnut

ELmO:

I hear occasional rumors about a Lexus IS430 (V8) coming out to give the M3 a run for it's money. If I'd had a choice, I may have chosen that over the 8 only for the spectacular acceleration. As it stands, I'm glad I chose the 8. I know I would have enjoyed an IS300, though.

JimW

elmalloc: I just came from a 2003 EXV6 Accord to the RX8 6 M.T. as far as ride comfort I can tell you it's about the same although the Accord has more room. as far as ride quality the RX8 is actually better, the Accords was stiffer and the handling was subpar, they were compareably quiet as well., Since it seems you don't want a manual transmission and are leaning towards a conventional sport sedan I would recommend the G35 sedan with sport suspension or the new Acura TL if you want more luxury and still somewhat sporty!

MMGDC

If 4 doors are really important to you, I'd recommend the Audi A4... it's probably the car that best fits your stated price range and list of important attributes. The Audi TT is a more "fun" ride than the A4, but is a 2 door and only seats 2 adults. I can't imagine driving a TT with an automatic transmission though. They tend to be a bit porky and underpowered with a manual...

The Acuras are nice cars, but lacked the level of "fun" that I was looking for. Pretty subjective standard obviously, so YMMV.

The RX-8 handling and road feel were, to me, unsurpassed by anything else in the market, but getting it in A/T sort of defeats the purpose of having a rotary engine IMO. This is a car worth learning manual for.

Good luck whatever your choice is... they're all fine cars and you should do well with any of them.

Zeltar

I think everyone here as provided some great input for you. In my humble opinion, based on your stated requirements, the RX-8 is not the car for you. Hopefully, you drive most of the cars mentioned previously.

One car that was not mentioned, of which I seriously considered, is the Saab 9-5. I did my comparisons with makes like BMW, Volvo, Audi, and Honda. To me, the Saab was the best. I'd be in it, if my tastes didn't lean towards full sports cars.

i3man

When I first went to look at the 8 I went for a ride with a salewoman...she was crazy. I already knew what the car could do but she felt like she had to show me.

She was running the motor to the redline and then she'd say "did you here that buzzer?"

Next we're in this empty parking lot and she says watch this...she goes speeding up to a speed bump at about 30 mph and doesn't slow down and we fly right over it and she says "see that? this car doesn't bottom out over speed bumps."

Then next she starts doing donuts in the parking lot at 30 mph to show me the cars turning radius.

Then on the way out of the parking lot she says "hold on", I'm thinking to myself what the hell is she going to do now, then she slams on the brakes and says "hows that for stopping power." She nearly threw me through the front winshield cause I was wearing my seat belt.

When we get back to the dealer she wants to try and sell me THAT car and I'm thinking no thanks I really don't want THAT car. So I bought mine from another dealer where the car came straight off the storage lot and hadn't been driven by anyone expect the guy that drove it there from the dock.

elmalloc

lol

silvercloud

So elmalloc- Did you test drive today?

elmalloc

nope, called dealer at 7:30 and said I would come to try it out, but didn't have time. I still have to do more xmas shopping, I will have ot leave work around 1 PM tomorrow. I may not get to test driving it for a while now because of xmas, and them closing at 6 pm. Work sucks, especially when they don't give enough holidays off (IE only thursday off this week).

-ELmO

rotarymagic

Smoothness, you ask.

Through my own experience and others on the forum, I can tell you that the RX8 is one of the smoothest cars out there. This has to do with the rotary engine, you can't get much smoother than that. ALso, the transmission is very smooth as well. I don't think the 2 cars compare. If I were to buy a lexus I would not get there bottom of the line car, I would go for the higher up models. Either way, the RX8 destroys the IS300 in performance, looks, and price.

rotarymagic

ALso, I don't see how the IS300 could be considered a sports sedan, does anyone else?

It may look sportier than other Lexus', but it doesn't have the performance to back up a "sports" sedan label.


Now the G35 Sports sedan is a true sports sedan. I would consider the IS300 more like a Family sedan.

If my memory recalls the "sports sedan" label was put on the IS300 by Lexus, note to lexus: just because a car has an optional 5 speed or 6 speed manual doesn't make it a sports car or sports sedan.

elmalloc

What do you consider a sports sedan then?
I think the I6 215HP and the good handling is enough?

Is it the 4 doors that you don't like?
I don't mind 4 doros or 4 seats, I'd just rather have them because I hate the hassle of moving seats down (which I would still have to do in the RX8).

Speed-ER doc

This IS 300 is a luxury sports sedan. The ES 300 is a luxury family sedan. The IS may not perform quite as well as the RX or G35, but it is still in that catagory. Even with auto and "tiptronic-like" SW paddles, it is a sporty car (we had a 2001 1st gen IS 300 before they offered MT). You can get funky with it and have fun, but still have the incomparable Lexus quality, reliability, and quietness to boot. It fills a niche if that is what you are looking for.

The IS 300 brakes from 60 in 118 feet, about the same as the G35 with Brembos (117) and faster than most cars with that label. The quarter mile is in 15.4, same as the Audi A4 3.0. The slalom speed is 64.5, faster than the Audi or the Acura 3.2 TL (both 64). All the IS 300 numbers compare favorably with the MB 320 Sport.

Bottom line - a very nice sport sedan with luxury.

Saint_Spinner

Elmo, did anyone mention the BMW M5, Mercedez AMG series or the Audi S4? Theyre kinda expenive, but if you look up SPORTS SEDAN in the dictionary, it will give you that list. Seriously, those are the ultimate Sports Sedans available.

cwerdna

The IS300 isn't a very luxurious car IMHO.

The interior is crappy compared to other Lexi and other cars in its class and price range. It should be sold as a Toyota (it's the Toyota Altezza in Japan, Lexus nameplate doesn't exist there). Audis (esp. them) and MBs have much better interiors compared to the IS300.

I couldn't speak to the other speeds and times but 15.4 in the 1/4 mile is slow. 5th gen Maximas automatics which are cheaper run the 1/4 mile in as fast as 14.6 (I've done a 14.908 myself in my stock 02 Max), the manuals are as quick as 14.2-14.3 stock. The IS300 has 40 hp less than the Max and weighs a little more too. I'm sure a V6 Altima [almost identical weight, same engine] would get very similar times in the 1/4 to the 5th gen Max and therefore smoke the IS300. I know Motorweek ran a 14.4@100 on a stickshift Altima V6.

It's funny how you bring up the A4 3.0 and MB320. They also have low hp (220 hp and 215 hp) and are even heavier than the Max and IS300. The MB320 is also quite expensive.

I guess the Accord V6, Altima and Maxima should also be called "sport sedans".

To its credit, the IS300 is RWD.

Speed-ER doc

Yes, the Accord V6, Altima and Maxima ARE sport sedans. Just not LUXURY sport sedans. The LUXURY features which make the cars more LUXURIOUS are also heavier. If all you care about is 0-60 times and quarter times, get a WRX or EVO.

elmalloc

luxury and sport are all relative terms anyway, not to dissrespect, but I'm guessing there are some out there that wouldn't even consider an RX8 a "sports car", if you want to go ahead and throw the word "luxury" around even though the cars have leather everywhere and are comfortable.

I think the IS300 so far is the closest to a luxury sports sedan that I've driven personally. I'm more about 0-60 acceleration, with as much luxury as possible, and good handling. I've driven a BMW Z4 and 325i, and I didn't enjoy the handling of either - even thought they may be toted as "the ultimate driving machine", it wasn't fun to me.

I will test drive the RX8 monday afternoon, or possibly tomorrow if they are open and let you guys know.

Thanks,
ELmO

SpYnalChRd81

Mazda RX-8 not a sports car??.. You gotta be kidding me.
S2000 and Porsche a sports car?.. Well, yah, if you got the 45-90k in your pocket and only two seats in your mind...

Elmo, you need to do two things:

1) Learn to drive a manual. If you're good at driving, which you seem like you are, it should take you only a few hours. I bet if you knew how to drive a manual, I guarantee you will want to get the manual RX-8 above all.

2) Get options for your RX-8 and you already got Navigation, moon roof, power/heated seats, alloy wheels, spoiler, and what not.

Oh yah, RX-8 from 0-60 is like 5.9 seconds, but maybe a little slower with all the options. I think that's fast enough because when are you ever going to need it anyway unless you are racing...

My conclusion:

Get a Mazda RX-8.

If you really really really want more luxury, you gotta whip out that wallet, man. Other than that, the 8 is really the best car at the best price IMHO. Don't ask for too much in a car, or else you are going to regret whatever you buy.

You can use the extra money to tint windows, buy zaino, and change wheels if you want...

By the way, the post about the mad lady driver in the parking lot is the funniest thing ever.

elmalloc

So you can throw the definition of luxury around but not a sports car, interesting. I'll take your info into consideration. I can't buy manual, I'm not the only one who will be driving it. I do take some consideration for others....

cwerdna

Well, check out some cars w/luxurious interiors like almost Audi A4 thru A8, Lexus ES330, Lexus LS430 or high end Mercedes. Then tell me that the IS300 is a "luxury" car. It isn't in my boat.

elmalloc

Some of those cars are way out of rang ein a different "league". I'd make a bet peopel with that kind of money think the RX8 isn't really a "Sports" car either, or why wouldn't they buy it? They are probably paying 50K for something else.

-ELmO

meteoro

I currently own an IS300 and possibly looking to pick up an RX-8 next.
The build quality, smoothness, reliability, looks, safety was a big factor for me purchasing the IS. The IS is a fun car, brings a smile to my face everyday. The handling and braking are top notch, wish it had more power though.
I run it in auto-x events all the time, came in second place in DS. The car holds its own against more nimble and faster cars such as the WRX, RSX-type S, 330i and the Audi S4.

Hate to say it, since I love rotaries and Mazdas, but I would not compare a Mazda to a Lexus. Different leagues.
The RX has it strong points, and so does the Lex.

Speed-ER doc

Look, I had an IS and loved it as explained above, but there is no way it can "hold its own" against a 340 hp S4, or for that matter, even a WRX on the track. The other cars, maybe. Who are you kidding?

To answer the luxury question, luxury is not just found in the quality of interior materials. The quality of the ride, quietness, fit and finish, RELIABILITY, service, buying experience, and other factors must be considered. The IS may not look as luxurious as the LS 430, but the other features are purring along under the skin to keep you feeling pampered.

The RX-8 is still more fun.

cwerdna

I don't think meteoro is kidding. I've watched (but not participated in auto cross), but from what I've seen and heard, it doesn't really help to have a really powerful car as you never even get up to say 75 mph. Handling and driving skill have a lot more to do with it.

Err... it's funny you bring up reliability. I guess Audis and Mercedes must not be luxury cars because many Audis and most Mercedes have lousy reliability. I'd include comfort in there and the amount of interior room plays a back role there. The IS doesn't have a whole lot of room.

Speed-ER doc

The IS did make me feel claustrophobic, that's why I wouldn't take it as my daily driver.

Audi and MB have average reliability, compared to Lexus they are lousy, but compared to the whole auto world, they are average.

An expert driver in an IS could probably beat an average driver in an S4 or a WRX STi. If the drivers were equal, no contest.

cwerdna

Almost all Mercedes models have far worse than average reliability. Most Audis are average to somewhat worse than avg. except the TT (which is much worse than avg). I'd be happy to post some reliability stats from various sources (Consumer Reports and JD Powers) when I get a chance.

Check out an autocross event, I think you'll think differently, esp. given the handcapping system that they use.