Rems31

that would be a troll :-P

delhi

If mpg is a problem, one should consider a Yaris or some sort of public transit option.
The rx-8 is without its flaws. But as an overall package it is evident that it is the better sports car over its peers. The many sports coupe comparisons seem to agree from Motortrend to Car & Driver to Jeremy Clarkson listing it one of his top 5 best cars of all time. Those are from professional auto journalists not Joe Nobody posting on an internet forum based on his/her opinion. Now that can be construed as troll or fanboi.

Raptor75

Not at all, I just don't have data here at the office to confirm or challenge your claim, so rather then responding out of ignorance I chose to hold off until I have comparative data to discuss. The other cars I have mentioned I had seen the data and could talk intelligently about them.

What I can say is that the G35 is about 600 lbs heavier and has 306 hp and according to you still gets 1 MPG better. Not exactly a glowing victory for the Rotary. Also the 07 G35 is about .6 sec faster to 60. Handling and body dynamics are far better on the RX.

Do you have a link to these comparisons? I haven't seen them and would like to read them.

Raptor75

yet the S2000 handles better with better acceleration and far better gas mileage to boot. By the way I get 12 to 13MPG.

Again the RX-8 is a great car but stop excusing it's poor fuel mileage. Face the facts and enjoy your car.

Red Devil

From quick Google searching:

Edmunds.com
RX-8 - Unfortunately, all that fun comes with a price, namely the RX-8's mediocre fuel mileage, which averaged just 17.5 mpg (against 18/24 EPA ratings)

G35c - Unfortunately, our heavy right foot and long stints in L.A. gridlock resulted in a pathetic 15.4 mpg over 9,300 miles.

Road and Track
RX-8 - Delivered price: $33,595
Total miles/miles since last report: 40,023/4247
Maintenance costs to date: $1961
Repair costs to date: $0
Average mpg to date: 17.4

Car and Driver
RX-8 - Car and Driver
And ample hot air there was. Averaging just 19 mpg while moving a relatively light 3067-pound curb weight, our RX-8 expelled more gasoline as waste heat than other cars its size.

I didn't immediately find the long term results for the G35c from either Road and Track or Car and Driver...but I'm sure they're out there.

Plaz

I decided ultimately that the handling, while excellent, was not worth the MPG/power deficit tradeoff in the long run for a daily driver.

I picked up a 2008 Mini Cooper S (w/JCW engine tuning) yesterday. Yes, it has a little torque steer, which sucks. But it still handles great, is fantastically fun to drive, and sips gas like a little old lady with a bottle of aged bourbon that she's been nursing for a year.

I traded in my '07 RX-8, and took a massive depreciation hit, but over the life of the car, it will probably pay for itself. Plus, there's the carbon guilt thing.

I really liked the RX, and don't think it's a bad car for those willing to make the inherent trade-offs... I thought I was willing when I bought it, but had a change of heart, and decided after a year my best move was to cut my losses and move on.

New Yorker

I'm most definitely NOT excusing the 8's mileage; I'm saying that what you get in return - sublime feel and handling - is very real, and more than a fair trade-off, just as people feel that the mileage of a CTS-V or Lamborghini is a fair price to pay for their power.

And the S2000 does not handle better. It handles great, but it doesn't have quite the special "feel" of an 8. Sports Car International considers the 8 to be one of the 5 best-handling sports cars you can buy, along with the Porsche Cayman, Audi R8, Nissan Nismo 350Z and Lotus Elise. (By the way, when I say "feel," I'm talking about something that goes beyond what a car does on a skidpad. Beyond numbers. Feel can't be measured, but you know it when a car has it and - thanks to that tiny little gas-guzzling motor - the 8 has it. In spades.)

delhi

As an old rotorhead.... the rotary runs well in 87 oct. as 91. That's what? 13c/l savings?

Raptor75

Edmunds G-35 2007 rating
19.3 MPG average

Motor Trend G-35 2007 rating
20.4 MPG average

It will be interesting to see what Consumer reports says. I will look it up tonight.

midlife crisis

Also, do you think I'd even consider driving 800 miles in two days in a 350 Z or S2000 with luggage and a grumpy wife? They are not nearly as comfortable.

Red Devil

Which are those - coupes, sedans, awd sedans, etc...? As sedans and coupes have different hp ratings, drag coefficients, curb weight and so on...

I was looking specificaly for G35 Coupes trying to keep it apples to apples. The long term comparison I referred to earlier for the G35c is somewhere in my stack of magazines...

Roaddemon

The 07 g35 MT averaged 17.1 in consumer guide. See it's no better than the 8. Your one of few getting 13mpg avg with your 8. Get your car checked out. something wrong with it.

mbrule6465

No offense,..... but are you serious? You gave up an 8 for a mini and took a depreciation hit. How much gas will you need to burn to make up for that? I could see it for a better car, for example a Vette, or maybe an M3, but a mini ? What's up with that? I understand people change, their needs change, a baby or two,(I've got seven) a new house etc...Sometimes you gotta give up the sports car but please be kind don't tell us you tossed an 8, lost money, and got a Mini. The injustice. That's like divorcing Angelic Jolie to marry Jennifer Aniston.....it just ain't done that way! The reverse, yeah fine, but not that way. And why?, because Jennifer recycles and pinches your pennies while Angelic likes to live a little.....and looks very good doing it. Of course that's just my opinion. The 8 is like the girl(or guy) you know you shouldn't go out with, you know will spend your money, you know may be a bit temperamental, but you just can resist and in the end your glad you didn't. Just don't expect your mother to approve.

Roaddemon

I can relate brother totally. Another good reason to avoid hardass cramped sportscars. The 8 has space for it's size without sacrificing comfort. It was great on a 10 day 3200 mile trip a took last year with wife and luggage. Great road car as well as sportscar.

Fencig

Agreed! I took a 16 day, 6500 mile road trip last summer with my girl and enough supplies for 2 weeks worth of camping. The funny part is we only had a camera bag and playmate cooler in the back seats. Let's see someone try that in a s2k or 350Z. I also averaged ~22MPG with a low of 14 (Fun tank!) and a high of 27 (almost all down hill).

I think that those harping about milage may have made the wrong choice of car. If it's that much of a issue then something like a pirus (or something in between) may be a better choice.

Another thing is you are comparing a rotary to a piston. Apples and oranges, you may as well be comparing ICE to Hydro. The rotary is a slowly evloving tech and very different than a piston engine. If you want to compare MPG you should be using the same tech. That would at least tell you if there is an improvment or not. Camparing it to something that has been R&D'd for decades by many countries and companies is not a fair or accurate comparision.

I don't know what the previous RX's got nor do I really care, so I won't try to sound knowlegable in that regard. My decision on buying the 8 had nothing to do with the milage...I have an Escort GT for that.

Roaddemon

+1

I had two rx7s mid 1980s. The 82 model avg 22mpg but only had a 12A 110 hp rotary. It was a fast little sportscar at the time. The rotary has improved leaps and bounds with the renesis and brought back the rotary to our roads. Future rx8s will continue to improve in reliability hp and mpg. I 'd like to see a 1.6 hybrid rotary with 270 hp and 30mpg. I'm sure it is possible.

RX7Matt

I've had 3 RX7s and none of them got very good gas mileage. I have a theory about why the rotary isn't that efficient. In a piston engine, the piston is being driven directly away from where the combustion process is occuring. In a rotary engine, the rotor is moving away at an increasing angle to the combustion process. I think some of the force is lost because of this angle hence the in-efficiency. I still like it because of it's simplicity and power/size ratio. These days, it would be hard to have it as my main transportation though.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

he is a moron, thats all. the depreciation hit can probably got him like 2-3 years of gas. and he is talking about can probably offset the cost in the long run ... lol he has ZERO clue about what will he face down the road.

He should come back in 100K miles to see if his engine is still alive. Oh yes I know how Mini works inside out. Cuz my friend has it, and he is on his 2nd engine just hmm 50K miles ? CopperS. in their community its common to have engine failures.

Plaz

Actually, believe it or not, I'm not a moron! I bet I could prove it!

The JCW MCS feels *much* faster than my 8 did, and the '07-'08 MINIs have BMW/Peugeot engines, not the Chrysler POS that the old MINI had. I wouldn't have considered the R53 Minis. It feels faster because maximum torque (right around 200 lb-ft) is achieved before the tach even gets to 2K. Much more useful for daily driving.

I'll also just add that I posted to share insight and my perspective. I understand the OP's position. I didn't come out and start personally ripping on anyone. I'd appreciate if you returned the favor.

mbrule6465

Platz,

Forgive me for what may have seemed like a personal attack. I think we all know the Mini has it's merits ( remember the "Italian Job") It was just a little harmless rib. I guess, after rereading the post, it was somewhat harsh. Good luck to you no hard feelings. p.s. I was considering a Mini at one point ( you're right it's a great daily driver)..........that is before I drove the 8.

delhi

I nearly got the MINI S before the 8. It is such a fun car. Is it funner than the 8? In a different way. There's something about the toss ability of the MINI despite FWD. Then again so is the MX-5. But alas, the 8's sexiness and balanced RWD platform won over.

Plaz

No, no attack from you... I thought your post was funny, though I obviously don't agree with your assessment.

I just didn't appreciate being called a moron in nycgps' followup to your post, that's all. The completely disrespectful tone just didn't seem justified to me.

mbrule6465

RX7Matt,

I think you're on the right track however, as I understand it the reason rotaries typically burn more fuel has to do with it's thermoefficiency or inefficiency as it were. Due to the size and shape of the combustion chamber vs. the surface area of the rotor on which the products of combustion are acting more of the energy is absorbed by the surrounding area and less into direct motion of the rotor. The lack of torque is better explained by what you described. In spite of the engine's low peak torque it still delivers superior HP when compared to a reciprocating engine and that is due, in part, to the number of power pulses per revolution (PPR) The Renesis engine has 6 PPR compared to 2 PPR in a 4 stroke 4cyl reciprocate, 4 PPR in an 8 cyl, and 6 PPR in a 12 cylinder engine. That makes the Renesis more efficient in terms of use of space and weight. Oh, and did I mention the 9000 rpm redline, that helps most of all. ( HP= torque x RPM / 5252.) If at some point the heat transfere or heat loss can be overcome either by improvement in materials such as using ceramic coated rotors etc., or by heat recapture, the rotary WILL become the engine of the future, perhaps burning Hydrogen in a high efficiency hybrid configuration. This is in part why I chose to buy an Rx8, to support the further development of rotary technology and will probably buy a car with the next generation of rotary.

quantum

Buying any like the 8 is an emotional one: one does not buy it for hauling groceries, taking a bunch of kids somewhere, saving the environemnt, etc.

Its like the hot, psycho chick you dated in college - sure she's a psycho; she might even kill you in your sleep, but damn is the sex great!

motorups

I can understand if someone purchases an rx8 and later feels the pain of money leaving thier pocket each time they gas up is more then they want to bear. And it is not really a 'cost vs benefits' formula in many instances. Sure we can whip out the calcuator and say for the 'X' amount of $$$ one loses by trying in a rx8 on a ABC car it would then take that person 5 to 7 years to recoup the lost $$ in gas savings they will get. To many of them I would bet they just don't care about that fact. It is just the feeling that each week (more then once a week?) they have to whip out that credit card or cash and pay to fill up their ride. Many times we just don't do the math before hand or at the time we trade in the rx8. And again, some just want something that gets better mpg, end of story...doesn't matter if the cost is greater nor if they will recoup the cost/lost in gas savings. They just know each time they fill up two things may happen (#1 they hopefully will fill up less often, #2 they will spend less $$ each time (or at least each week). It can be a strong emotional feeling to pay $45 to feel up compared to ... plus having to do it less often.

So far as a usable back seat goes...yes, for my six year old niece it works fine and I love it for anything else I want to take with me but not toss in the truck. A whole lot more room then the mx5 for sure.

This thing about being one of the five best handling sports cars....
well I'm not that good a driver but I do find the rx8 fun. To me it is work to enjoy the power band on the rx8 since (imho) I need to start at 4k then hit 5k before a real sense of power is 'on tap'. Then again I have only a drop over 1,000 miles on my new 07 ride so others know more about that then me. Being that I own the automatic the car would loop along at 2k if I let it. At 3k I feel at least the rx8 is alive and breathing and 4k and 5k is ok but once I have to 'work it' to bring her up to 6k...well, it just feels more like work to me at that point. Again, I'm new at this still (other rotary was an old rx7 back 1980). If I recall yesterdays long ride home from my brothers in manual mode then having that power on tap at 5k was fun and more importantly useful.

Score Card (to me):
Looks - 9
Ease of access to its power band - 6
(if more power was on tap at 3k or 4k I would rate it an 8 excuse the pun)
Usefulness of back seat (for adults) - 7
MPG - 5
(only because you have to be up in the powerband to find power)
Feeling - priceless (and can only be figured by the owner of the rx8)

Don't think I would want it as my only ride due to the low mpg but as a sports car with a back seat and great looks...
I will live with it, hopefully for many years to come provided they don't come out with a newer rotary engine next year (hell I'm too broke to even dream that thought anyway....)
enjoy your rides