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Does the 2004 make 238 or 232 hp?

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Old 06-15-2011 | 09:38 AM
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Does the 2004 make 238 or 232 hp?

My old '04 brochure says my car makes 238 hp. I just noticed the '09 brochure says 232 hp.

Did the later engines actually lose 6 hp, or did Mazda just adjust (again) it's rating system and all the years make a claimed 232 now?

I realize there are arguments about how much power the engine "really" makes, I'm just curious if the '04 actually made a little more power than later engines?
Old 06-15-2011 | 09:43 AM
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alneilsen answer is a little more accurate

EDIT:

Last edited by mscamp02; 06-15-2011 at 09:47 AM.
Old 06-15-2011 | 09:43 AM
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The answer is both. It depends on the way horsepower is measured. Mazda settled on the 238 hp figure for North America spec cars in 2004. A couple of years later the US government changed the standards for the way official horsepower is figured and this changed the figure to 232.
Update: mscamp02 is right, it started at 250 hp. There was a class action lawsuit, in the US, after it was found that that number couldn't be true. It wasn't and that is where the 238 number came from. The 250 figure is correct for J spec cars.
Old 06-15-2011 | 09:48 AM
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I thought Mazda changed the ECU settings so the newer versions were a bit more fuel efficient.
Old 06-15-2011 | 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mscamp02
real answer is probably neither. Its believed that the 8 doesnt even hit those numbers at the crank and especially over time while the engine degrades will be even less.
I was under the impression that as time goes on, the rotary engine can actually create more compression after it wears in properly (sealing the gaps better) and therefore increase hp... I guess that could be a myth...
Old 06-15-2011 | 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Strata-R
I thought Mazda changed the ECU settings so the newer versions were a bit more fuel efficient.
Right, or well I wondered if the Series 2 engine changes lost 6 hp over Series 1?
Old 06-15-2011 | 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kiker14
I was under the impression that as time goes on, the rotary engine can actually create more compression after it wears in properly (sealing the gaps better) and therefore increase hp... I guess that could be a myth...
I've heard similar. It's said that the Mazda rotary race cars at le mans made more power later in the race because of the engine getting more worn in.
Old 06-15-2011 | 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kiker14
I was under the impression that as time goes on, the rotary engine can actually create more compression after it wears in properly (sealing the gaps better) and therefore increase hp... I guess that could be a myth...
In an early long-term road test Car and Driver noted their 8 got faster, and said something about how the "myth" proved to be true, at least with their test car.
Old 06-15-2011 | 10:06 AM
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If I remember right, it was Mazda didn't test the hp with the US catalytic converters and the PCM fuel map changes to make sure the cats could supposedly last the Federal and California emissions warranty. (of course most didn't anyway!), same for the 2001 NB Miata hp issue.

But here's an old new story about it and I remember Mazda buying back a couple.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...rbuyback_x.htm
Old 06-15-2011 | 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by New Yorker
In an early long-term road test Car and Driver noted their 8 got faster, and said something about how the "myth" proved to be true, at least with their test car.
I don't think its a myth. I think engines will seal better but eventually they start losing compression over time.
Old 06-15-2011 | 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by blazenblue63
I've heard similar. It's said that the Mazda rotary race cars at le mans made more power later in the race because of the engine getting more worn in.
I remember speaking to Dave (KDR) about blown Rx8 engines....
And how can you tell its going to go....

He said it will feel a hell of alot faster.... LOL...
When I asked why, He's was saying something about the reduction of friction... and everything spinning more freely.
Old 06-15-2011 | 09:41 PM
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I heard that from Dave also. I guess you would have hit that sweet spot of lower compression or else the flooding, tuning problems, etc.
Old 03-18-2013 | 03:30 PM
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i wonder if anyone actually tested this? you know by testing a new RX-8 on a rolling road, and doing the same at say 35,000 miles.
Old 03-18-2013 | 03:31 PM
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An engine always feels strongest right before it blows.
Old 03-18-2013 | 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
An engine always feels strongest right before it blows.

I heard this when I awhile ago I'm thinking its true, a friend of mine was describing how fast his mitsubishi eclipse was smashing before the engine popped.
Old 03-18-2013 | 03:36 PM
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Yeah it really applies to all engines. I have been there, done that,
Old 03-18-2013 | 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
An engine always feels strongest right before it blows.

Its the boost that makes it die...lol
Old 03-18-2013 | 06:40 PM
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Regardless not enough!!! Haha
Old 03-18-2013 | 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sinned2545
I remember speaking to Dave (KDR) about blown Rx8 engines....
And how can you tell its going to go....

He said it will feel a hell of alot faster.... LOL...
When I asked why, He's was saying something about the reduction of friction... and everything spinning more freely.
This is a VERY funny yet TRUE statement. My 2004 RX-8 4 PORT felt like it was pulling freaking hard before the engine went. I was literally burning rubber in 2nd gear. Remember, I'm talking about the less powerful 4 Speed RX-8.
Old 03-18-2013 | 09:59 PM
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Yep it always feels great right before it lets go. Mine did too.
Old 05-12-2013 | 10:47 AM
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i have seen many posts concerning bad compression in cars that appear to start run and drive fine and have just read a post saying that rotary engines make more power when properly run in .what ?
Old 05-12-2013 | 10:58 AM
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well based on this data I hope my 8 runs like crap for many more years to come
Old 05-14-2013 | 04:58 AM
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My 8 is definitely running worse than it did a year ago... looks like im in luck
Old 05-14-2013 | 12:25 PM
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an engine may run it's best just before it blew due to a fuelling issue, leaning out the mixture which was the cause of failure. this myth i have proven on the dyno with engines that blew without running lean and produced no more power than usual up until the point i let off the throttle. i would walk away from anyone who sais these engines produce more power due to less friction before they blow.

8's have adaptive memory, so if your 8 is getting quicker over time it is likely because it is adapting to your driving habits and compensating for them. don't kid yourselves.

the lemans rotaries used ceramic seals which do take a long time to seal at their maximum, the engines we see have cast iron metallic seals. apples to oranges.

and last but not least, the figures rated are still inflated even if it is rated at the crank. compensating for drivetrain losses you won't find a wheel driven dyno that jives with the figures mazda put out, which would mean the 8 has roughly 200 wheel horsepower, which isn't true, that or the transmission and differential are power hogs.

Last edited by Karack; 05-14-2013 at 12:33 PM.
Old 05-14-2013 | 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Karack
an engine may run it's best just before it blew due to a fuelling issue, leaning out the mixture which was the cause of failure.
i think this is more likely, i was talking to the local shop teacher who has raced rotaries since the 70's and he said basically the same thing. even NA you tune to max power, and then go a little richer...


and last but not least, the figures rated are still inflated even if it is rated at the crank. compensating for drivetrain losses you won't find a wheel driven dyno that jives with the figures mazda put out, which would mean the 8 has roughly 200 wheel horsepower, which isn't true, that or the transmission and differential are power hogs.
there was a guy who posted an engine dyno vs chassis dyno of a P port engine. the engine did 320hp at the crank but only like 240 at the wheels, using a turbo drive train.

the extra RPM really seems to take a ton of power
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