G8rboy

That's pretty much how I do it if I redline to 2nd and plan to stay around ~65-70... I just let the revs settle with the clutch in for a sec before engaging 6th.

Raptor2k

Yep, wakes me up in the morning

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

that is fine, but just try double clutching next time you do the 2-6 upshift, you will notice the gear will slide into 6th much easier than just shove it in w/o double clutching

Astral

It's relative. I downshift, heel toe or not, when slowing down to keep the revs above 2-2.5K RPMs, in the "city powerband." So I really doubt that downshifting to go from 2K RPM to 3K PRM is hard on the synchros. Sure, it wears them some, but not as hard as downshifting from 3000RPM in 6th to some 8000RPM in 3rd w/o double-clutching.

Astral

why would double-clutching really help on the 2-6 upshift, other than act as a timing device? i would assume that with the right 2-6 upshift timing, the 6th gear synchro would spin down to the right speed by the time you attempt to put the shifter into 6th gear.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

the gist of it is, by using double clutching to shift from 2-6, you use the ENGINE RPM to naturally spin down the speed of the middle shaft as the rpm drops during the upshift, so that when you clutch in and put it in 6th, the middle shaft and output shaft speed will be almost the same, resulting in ultra-smooth shift engagement.

Deslock

Oh the horror. Not only do I downshift/rev-match when slowing down, but I also enjoy WOT and hitting redline everyday. My poor car.

I initially learned to double-clutch when I got my CDL; it's a useful technique for extending brake life and preventing them from overheating (it's an added safety precaution, especially when traveling downhill or approaching intersections).

Obviously, it's not critical in a lightweight sports car like it is in a bus or truck. But it's fun to work the RX8's shifter and it teaches corresponding vehicle and engine speeds for the gears.

RotarySpirit

I think the RX-8 has one of the greatest sounding engines on the road, but that is only part of the reason why I double clutch. It gives me something to do while I'm driving and, no, it's not necessary to double clutch, but it's my personal driving technique that I like to build on. It's something that will stay with me after I don't have my RX-8. So I'm not trying to just learn how to drive my car specifically, I'm trying to make myself a better driver for any car I'm in.

I don't see the need to always downshift to slow down, nor double clutch when downshifting (especially in modern cars). However, I believe that if it is done properly, it makes you a better driver, it's fun to do, and let's you express the unique sound of the rotary engine.

I don't do it to show off. I really don't care if anyone is watching/listening to me or not. I do it to learn about the way my car drives.

After doing research to learn about how my transmission and engine interact and practicing (I still have a lot of practice), what I came up with was the following.

Double clutching -> depress clutch, shift to neutral, release clutch, rev engine to proper RPM, depress clutch, shift to lower gear, release clutch

Rev matching -> The part of double clutching (or double declutching, same thing) when you rev the engine to the proper RPM. This can be done without double clutching though.

The benefit of releasing the clutch in neutral is to engage the layshaft and get it spinning at the same speed as the engine before connecting the rest of the transmission. As opposed to just rev matching with your foot on the clutch. If you do this, the synchros still have to work to get the layshaft up to speed.

Moder cars have synchros, no need to double clutch when down shift, but there is still such thing as synchro wear, and it will occur if you constantly downshift and jolt the transmission (I assume this will be bad for more than just the synchros), or only rev match the engine speed to the transmission with your foot on the clutch.

heel-toe shifting -> This is the same as rev matching but requires you to brake while you are performing these actions. Note that just heel-toe shifting still forces your synchros to do work unless you heel-toe shift AND double clutch.

I practice both and I enjoy doing both. The RX-8 truly is a great car to drive and just because it is a modern car designed to allow less skilled drivers an easy ride doesn't mean that I have to drive it that way hehe.

Sorry for such a long post, I've just been studying this stuff lately and had my 2 cents (more like a buck fifty) to share.

One last thing, once you become fluid at these techniques, so too will the motion of your car become more fluid.

Wired_8

^^^ Thats how I understand manual transmisions.
For a good reference to what snychros,layshafts, etc ... do, check out this link:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm
There are some good pictures/animations that helped me clear everything up.

l008com

I downshift/engine brake from time to time. My lease will be up long before either the brakes OR the clutch need replacing. And I know it uses more gas, but these 18" wheels don't clean brake dust off themselves!

9291150

If you think this stuff is hard, try racing a motorcycle.

Going into a corner, even before the turning part, you'll be matching revs with your right wrist to your left handed clutch while your right fingers modulate the front brakes and your left foot shifts while you position your whole body for the lean into the corner.

Get the match wrong and your rear will be slipping as you turn in, not fun.

SilverEIGHT

I purchased my car to have fun. I learned to rev match and I do it almost every time I gear down to 3rd and 2nd. I pretty much drive the car like it's designed to do. If I break it, I'll fix it and start it all over again. I love to drive my car and I love to push it within reason. Almost 20K and she gets better every day. If I decide it's time to baby her, then I might as well trade her in on a Camry.

cptpain

its possible you can screw up syncros for that 6spd. that tranny is small for a 6spd, compared to others. mazda wanted to keep the costs down so they had the tranny casing somewhat the same size as the miata 6spd just slighly bigger. on my fb i downshift a lot(i circuit race a bit, its a habit), skip gears, the tranny hold fine. doesnt grind, pop out of gear, no probs. as far as im concerned it still feels like a new tranny. i drag the car once in a while also

Krankor

Well said!

l008com

My gears are starting to grind a bit. Especially 1st and 2nd when they are cold. I've known the mechanics of how a standard works for years but only recently did I learn about what syncros are and what they do. Without even thinking about it, while in neutral, I used to leave the clutch out and just lean into 2nd gear, while waiting for the light to turn etc. So I think mine are starting to get tired. Off topic for a sec, I still have a bitch of a time getting into reverse, thats been like that since day one.

SilverEIGHT

If you have not done so, you may want to look into RED LINE Synthetic fluids for your dif and trany!

l008com

maybe i'll leave a note in the glove box telling the next owner to look into that ;-)

SolidGun

Unless you are doing it for fun(I don't know what the hell kinda fun it is) why the hell would you downshift to stop?
Braking is cheaper anyway you see it. You could argue that you could do it perfectly, but there are a lot of bad drivers out there and no one can do it perfect every time.
Save some more gas......brake in neutral

RotarySpirit

I'm not sure I follow...You bought a nice car that performs well and loves to be revved to high RPMs but you don't think it's fun to downshift? It sounds like you've never even tried.

And what does having to downshift perfectly every time have to do with anything? I hate to break it to you, but it's really not that hard to downshift.

Braking in neutral doesn't save gas. Your engine is disconnected from the transimission so the engine is required to burn fuel to keep running. If it's connected, the force of the wheels pushing the engine will keep it going and the fuel will be cut off to the engine. I will grant you that downshifting will use more gas. If you wanted to save gas, you should still brake with the car in gear.

Braking in neutral is a sign of a bad driver to me. There is no reason your car should be in neutral unless you are stopped. Even if you are against downshifting, you should at least leave your car in some gear until about to come to a standstill.

Basically what it sounds like to me is that you think we should just trust the technology built into the car (in this case ABS) and not our own driving skill, and I have to disagree with your logic if that is what you are implying (sorry if I'm misinterpreting).

Also, I'm not advocating that everyone should downshift or double clutch or heel-toe shift. Drive the way you want.