gwilliams6

Premixing is good for all rotary engines.

gwilliams6

Not familiar with that 18 tooth starter. The OEM Series 2 starters are 14 tooth.

reni04

yea I know the automatic series one are not popular. The local auto parts stores are selling the 18 tooth/2.0 KW/.68 hp. No one knows here knows much of any thing about the automatic's.
I have a new problem however , I removed the cross member away from the start6er and got all but the top 12 mm bolt out of the starter and wouldn't ya know it the last bolt of three is stripped and I can't use the 12mm wrench at all it is slipping and rounding out the bolt. Do you know of a tool to get torq on that last bolt ?. I huess I am relegated to going to the repair shop and have them change the strter but it is so frustrating to be only one lousy bolt away from success. I will have to return the starter I bought and pay too much for the shops starter. FRUSTRATING !.

UnknownJinX

If you have an imperial socket set, you could find something that's barely too small to fit on the bolt when it's cold. Heat the socket up, fit it onto the bolt, and wait for it to cool. Of course, this requires the bolt to be not too rounded.

UnknownJinX

Here is a question for fellow S2 owners who have a sunroof on their 8:

When you tilt up(not open) the sunroof, how much does it tilt up? Mine barely tilts up. When I open my sunroof entirely, it tilts up quite a bit more and slides.

wannawankel

My S2 tilts up at least 35mm (roof to lower sunroof height).

Okki-Jakarta

I'll try my very best but i'm definitely not bringing the 8 to bandung, u know the traffic during weekends and i have a 3 month old baby! hahahaa

Stay safe, see u soon Darrell!! Regards to ur family!

REDRX3RX8

Yeah, 8 don like 3 hours of traffic to go 10 kilometers.

I got diesel Innova so i can idle forever.......

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

My S1 sunroof does this exact same thing.

FeveredSeeker

Alright, guys. I'm not sure if this question has ever been completely answered or not, but what is the life expectancy for the BHR midpipe with the Catalytic converter installed? I am looking into replacing my Cat with the BHR midpipe but I am on the fence of whether I should purchase the midpipe with or without the Cat. My Check engine light has currently gone off and the code is P0420. I am aware that this is because the Catalytic converter has most likely gone bad. I have changed the O2 sensor and have changed the Air pump as well as the Coils, wires, and plugs since I had a codes going off for those as well. My emissions test is coming up for Feb and that CEL needs to go, for obvious reasons, and the plan is to change the Cat. I am planning on either getting a cheap aftermarket Cat to swap with the OEM for Emissions and then swapping that with the BHR midpipe because of the benefits of running a Catless exhaust.

I guess the real question is should I continue with finding a cheap aftermarket in order to pass emissions and install the catless BHR afterwards, or should I just go ahead and purchase the BHR midpipe with the cat?

My worry is that the cat that is pre-installed into the BHR midpipe will not last long and I would be in the same predicament as I am now... also I would really love to hear that engine breath without the restriction as well as the added benefit of seeing some flames shoot out the back!

Thank you in advance to anyone that will answer my question!

UnknownJinX

Running catless gives you flames and minimal resistance, but for some people, that smell gets sick quick and it may also damage your rear bumper paint.

The ceramic cat that BHR offers, like they said, won't stand up to track abuse.

What's your budget? Getting a cheap cat + a cheap mid-pipe just for the sake of inspection could cost you about US$400. If you have a bigger budget, you could just get a HJS Tuning cat and get it welded to the BHR mid-pipe. The HJS cat is very good and will stand up to even track use, eliminating the need to swap the cat for the inspection.

Check out the Classified section as well. You may find a cheap OEM cat there.

FeveredSeeker

How much is the HJS that you mentioned? Couldn't I just cut the OEM Cat off of its pipe and weld the HJS to the OEM in order to prevent buying another mid-pipe to weld the HJS on to? I want to keep a mid-pipe free from a cat to prolong the engine life since catalytic converters tend to choke our engine up and add unwanted stress to the seals. I've already gone through a rebuild and I want to put as much time between now and the next rebuild with every mod I do. I'm looking into getting a sohn adapter and upgrading my coils and wires to the BHR set, but I digress. My budget is anywhere between 800-1000 with 1000 being the absolute limit. I'm a student and dues are due in a week, yikes!

Thanks for the quick reply! I thought it was going to be days before anyone replied lol

IamFodi

iTrader: (1)

A clogged/damaged cat can certainly speed up engine failure, and a cat that isn't there can't clog. But has anyone actually demonstrated that catless cars run longer than cars with good cats?

Ditto with coils and the Sohn. Yes, failed coils and bad oil injection can wreck an engine. But has anyone demonstrated that BHR coils and Sohn adapters can extend engine life vs. fully functioning and well maintained stock coils and oil systems?

I'd love to see the data if anyone has it, but I'm not holding my breath.

If it were my S1 on that budget, I'd skip the Sohn and BHR kit, and just get the cheapest cat that could withstand RX-8 EGTs.

FeveredSeeker

I can't provide you with the data but there is good reason to believe that both the sohn adapter and a set of BHR coils can lengthen the life of the Wankel. Coils that can provide a stronger spark and can withstand the rpms that the wankel cycles at provides a cleaner, more efficient burn. That's less carbon build up and residue left in the engine so that leaves a smoother surface for the seals to slide against. Wankels also burn oil that isn't meant to be burned during combustion and that burnt oil leaves behind sticky, gunky, residue that can also damage the seals. That same oil is also cycled through the engine and dumped back into the oil pan only to be sucked back up and reused further risking carbon build up.

BHR coils provide a stronger and more reliable spark than stock coils do. The SOHN adapter provides fresh 2 stroke oil to the engine that is easier to be burned and provides some extra lubrication.

I mean I'm sure you know all of this already, and I really don't mean to be condescending, but I typed all that out in case someone new to Rx-8 reads through our posts.

In my opinion, the combination of those mods and upgrades could definately improve the life of the engine and provide us with a healthier and more reliable car. I can't prove to you that these mods do in fact improve the life of the Wankel but it helps me sleep better at night knowing that I at least did something to prolong its lifespan. I've also gone through the need of a whole engine rebuild and I want to avoid that for as long as possible.

Sorry for typing so much. I took a little too much adderall and got carried away.

IamFodi

iTrader: (1)

The technical term for all of this is a "hypothesis" -- i.e. a reasonable idea about what might happen based on facts and some basic logic.

This is different from an idea being demonstrated, i.e. actually shown to work in practice. Hypotheses turn out to be wrong all the time, so the only way to know is by testing them. In this case, that'd mean something like taking a bunch of RX-8s in similar condition, putting BHR coils and/or Sohn adapters on only some of them, driving them all similarly, seeing how long they all run, and then doing a bit of math to see if there are significant differences. As far as I can tell, no one has even attempted that.


Not with stock dwell times. Are you planning to tweak those?

Also, while they certainly seem to last longer than early Mazda coils, there seems to be no good info on whether they last longer than the latest Mazda coil revision.


Yes and no, and the yes comes with caveats....

Some are MUCH easier to burn, to the point that less would stick around long enough to do a good job lubricating the seals. Others have flash points comparable to very high-end synthetic oils, which might mean they'd be harder to burn than most engine oils.

And of course, let's not forget that 2-stroke oils are designed to be mixed with fuel, which they wouldn't be if injected through the MOP.

Again, I agree that it all seems completely plausible, and I share your feeling that it should work. But the only way to know whether it does work is to actually test it in a rigorous way, which no one seems to have done. Hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong.


Okay, this is different. If what you're really going after is that warm fuzzy feeling, that's your call. Whether it's worth the money, time, and extra variables (e.g. new failure points introduced, having to keep a 2-stroke tank topped off at all times, etc.) is up to you.


No need to apologize. This is what a forum is for.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

In the absence of a research facility, I feel like we have everything we need to do such a longitudinal study on this forum. In fact I think there was an attempt made a few years ago. All of us know our driving habits and parts replacement history. My BHR coils for instance, are 90,000km and 8 years old and compression tests are performed annually.

It's going to be self-reported and there isn't a huge control group of people who don't have any mods and stay on the forum long, but its worth a shot.

To the original question about the cat, get the HJS one and weld it into whatever you want. Buying temporary cats is lighting money on fire. And don't drive the car if you can help it until the cat is happy.

FeveredSeeker

I'm glad to see that you agree with me that there is a plausibility of a positive outcome that may result with these changes in parts compared to the stock set-up of the car. I agree with you that we may never really know how these changes really affect the car and its life without rigorous testing, but the average person does not have the kind of money to be able to test all of these parts seperately with different cars. I would love to see the results of some kind of testing like you've mentioned, hell maybe we can start a thread where everyone just shares info on their car's performance based on what modifications they've done. Either way, based on other posts and threads on this site as well as videos, maintenance tips, and testimonies on various others there's still a good chance that these modifications and tweaks will give the engine a healthier life until it needs a rebuild or replacement. I'm not looking to add these parts for a warm fuzzy feel. I'm wanting to add these parts for an improvement in reliability. Extra lubrication, greater airflow, and stronger spark all seem to point in that direction. It just seems reasonable that when most, if not all, that have tried these modifications for their car have reported power gains, smoother idles and revs, and an increase in reliability, for a car that's infamous for its seemingly low reliability, there must be something here to follow. Of course this could all be a placebo effect and we're all just dishing out money for what we believe is patch for the problems that come with the rotary. We could all just be tinkering with parts we have no business touching and we could be making things worse. But that's the fun part about playing around with your car. Tweaking, swapping, changing, modding, and testing is all part of the joy of owning a car unless it only serves you the purpose of getting you from point A to B. There is a wide range of variables that come with these changes just like you mentioned but for some people, like me, it's worth the experience. I don't mind adding some Idemitsu in my tank as well as the reservoir that would be connected to the Sohn or swapping a mid-pipe for a cat once a year for emissions. The Rx-8 is a spoiled little brat that needs its regular maintenance in order to perform correctly. When maintained correctly though it's a wonderful machine that's really fun to drive and show off to friends or at car meets. A Few more steps added to the maintenance process is okay by me.

Really I agree with everything you've had to say. Everything has its pro's and con's and a lot of what floats around the Rotary community doesn't really have much data to support its claims. The only point of reference that we have is that of the feedback that people give in this community regarding these modifications. I myself would much rather see some sort of data charts just as you probably would.

Wow.... I feel like some type of keyboard warrior typing away lol all I wanted was some advice on whether I should buy the BHR with or without the Cat.

FeveredSeeker

Thanks, man! I really appreciate the help and advice. I agree with you on the idea that we should self report our data to the community. It's a great way to gather the data of our cars and their modifications to better understand them. I just might go with your idea about the HJS.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

I can't speak for the BHR Cat, but I've had the BHR midpipe and coils on for almost 8 years and 50,000+ Kms of boosted Renny greatness without any issues to either product. If I did require a cat it would be the ONLY the HJS with BHR midpipe... just my opinion.

As for the SOHN adapter, I don't run one. I do pre-mix about 4-6oz of Idemitsu every 2-3 tanks of fuel (I don't premix if I know I am not going to be driving the car HARD). I do have my MOP rates upped by my tuner as well. IMO the SOHN to me is exactly as stated above, just a warm fuzzy feeling as there is no data to support any improvements on engine life.

So far, this combination as worked fantastic for me...

UnknownJinX

HJS cat is about $700~800 shipped. May take a while since you have to source one from Germany. A BHR mid-pipe welded to it will cost you $1300~1400.

There isn't much you can do to the factory cat. HJS "Martini shaker" is a lot shorter than the OEM elements, so it won't fit.

gwilliams6

I stand by the BHR coils (mine have 50,000 miles on them and still run strong). No one really has seen the end date for them, so I would venture to say they will last longer than any OEM Mazda coils have proven to date. I know of C-Coils having to be replaced by my dealer. I asked. When I first bought my BHR coils, my dealer installed them for me, and even their chief mechanic (a former mazdaspeed guy) knew of their reputation and endorsed my purchase.

Any coil can be defective, and there have been a few BHR coils that were bad ,out of the box, and Charles promptly replaced them. But not much chatter here on them wearing out before the cars died.

I dare say the BHR coils are the most bought , most tested and proven, with the most RX8 miles driven of any single RX8 aftermarket product available, period.

IamFodi

iTrader: (1)

Assuming these coils really do last longer than rev. C coils, and that we're not dealing with some kind of sampling bias here...

What that would mean is that the coils themselves last longer than Mazda coils. Which is good! Definitely a benefit. Time and money saver, removes one failure point, etc.

It wouldn't say anything about how long the engine lasts with BHR coils vs. with new OE rev. C coils, especially if the OE coils are changed preventively every 30k miles. I can see that comparison panning out either way, or being a wash. We just don't know without a lot of data.

In other words, it would mean BHR coils are a good way to simplify maintenance and save money in the long term (60k+ miles). It wouldn't answer the question of whether they extend the life of the engine vs. regularly replaced rev. C coils. That was my point.

You know what I mean, right?

NotAPreppie

Well, you can take the OE cat'd midpipe in and have the OE cat cut out and an extension tube welded in to make up the diff between the Martini Shaker and OE cat lengths. I mean, at that point, you're most of the way to a new midpipe but it would work.

FeveredSeeker

Right... But it's also safe to say that because of the BHR's lengthy life they are more efficient or more consistent in the work that they do. Because of that efficiency and consistency it's safe to assume that it would play a factor in the longevity of the engine. As has been stated, OEM coils crap out a hell of a lot sooner than the BHR coils which could mean that the OEM is far less efficient and consistent in its performance. We can see that when spark plugs act in a less efficient and consistent way, they fail to burn the necessary amount of fuel leading to build up and deposits that lead to a faster decay of engine life. The efficiency of the plugs can be effected by wear and tear, age, bad installation , and many other variables including but not limited to coils. So if coils play a factor with the consistency of spark plug performance and the BHR coils are assumed to be more efficient than the OEM coils we can safely assume that the plugs will also perform in a more efficient manner. As we all know plugs don't mean **** if there is no power source to produce the spark and that spark comes from the power that is received through the coils.

In other words we can say that the BHR coils outlast the OEM because of its efficiency and consistency when it comes to delivering power to the plugs. This in turn provides a steady spark that is less prone to misfires.

Now I don't have BHR coils installed in my car so I cannot tell you how they effect the car, but I can guess that since this upgrade is praised by mostly everyone that has installed it, from noobs to technicians, they serve their purpose and they serve it well. Of course there is no data to support this so technically all of what I said is just a theory and I could be completely incorrect, but there is still a very good chance that these coils can improve engine life. I mean you don't have to believe me or anyone else for that matter if you're sceptical about these coils, but with all of its positive reviews it goes to show that these coils do hold some positive impact to the vehicle.

NotAPreppie

Actually, it's not really safe to say that longevity/durability has any impact on efficiency or consistency. There is no law of the universe that provides for any causative or even correlative relationship. Additionally, there are likely at least a few design decisions that we know little about that could impact one and not the other.

In fact, I'm pretty certain I've read that the D585 coils used in the BHR kit really aren't more powerful. At the same dwell settings, they produce less spark than the OEM coils. It's not enough to impact an otherwise healthy NA Renesis but increasing dwell is recommended there and more or less required for FI. When increasing them significantly, it's also recommended that you run a new 12v power line for them as they'll be pulling current pretty close to the limit of what you want to do with the OE harness. That doesn't scream "more efficient" to me.