ECU "learning"
#1
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ECU "learning"
I have read in several threads that the ecu is a learning computer. My question is what can a ecu learn in a MT car? I understand the ecu could change shift points and rpms in a AT but obviuosly that does not apply in a MT.
This leads to my next question about performance and MPG; if the ecu can learn and thus change performance and other factors how can anyone accurately compare MPG and performance numbers since everyone drives different?
Sorry if this is a noob question but inquring minds want to know.
This leads to my next question about performance and MPG; if the ecu can learn and thus change performance and other factors how can anyone accurately compare MPG and performance numbers since everyone drives different?
Sorry if this is a noob question but inquring minds want to know.
#2
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well it's "cpu is a neural net processor....a learning computer" "it has no mercy it can't be reasoned with..." haha seriously though i'm not exactly sure what it does but i'llmake a guess.
it'll probable learn your driving habbits (liek all city or all highway) and adjust accordingly to perform better (i.e. for emmisions and mpg).....the pcm (power control modual) has it's finger in every piece of pie on the car :D so it can tweak anything. (afr, timing...etc etc)....
so there you hav eit that's my educated guess...now weather i'm righ tor not who knows.
it'll probable learn your driving habbits (liek all city or all highway) and adjust accordingly to perform better (i.e. for emmisions and mpg).....the pcm (power control modual) has it's finger in every piece of pie on the car :D so it can tweak anything. (afr, timing...etc etc)....
so there you hav eit that's my educated guess...now weather i'm righ tor not who knows.
#3
RX8 and a Truk....
Not related to OUR ECU - but here's what a SuperChips dealer says about ECU learning on Ford Trucks....Interesting reading.
There was an obvious key clue in your post for anyone that really knows how PCM's work - it IS possible that you are losing a little bit of power (maybe 3% or so at most, but enough to notice at 40 mph when the engine isn't making any power to begin with) by driving the vehicle conservatively (normally), and that is simply the normal effects of adaptive strategy at work - unless you are using cheap gas, or have a clogged fuel filter, that is all that is going on, and that happens with any computer-controlled vehicle.
That is precisely why the truck ran great at first, but then, just exactly as you said, as you drove it more and more, it doesn't feel quite as strong - and it's noticeable in that scenario at 40 mph.
Adaptive strategy optimizes the powertrain operations for best fuel economy based on the manner in which the vehicle is operated most frequently - and even the most aggressive driver still doesn't spend 2%-5% of their time at WOT (wide-open throttle) - which is why as you drive it more after installing your mods, you seem to feel you have lost power. See, what happens when you flash the PCM with any tuning device is that it *also* clears out all previous adaptive strategy adjustments - same thing happens when you simply disconnect the battery for long enough, by the way - so the vehicle feels more peppy than "normal" when you first flash the PCM (even when going back to the stock factory tune). Then as you drive it, the more you drive it at less than heavy throttle, the more potential to see a small loss of power, up to about 3% or so across the board - it's simply adaptive strategy. Disconnect the battery for 10 minutes and you'll get that power right back - but then as you drive it "normally," you'll lose that 3% or so again. Perfectly normal, and it happens to everyone.
Now, can this be improved upon with our *custom* tuning? Yes, but only because we are getting larger power gains, not because it will negate the effects of adaptive strategy - you are always going to have that.
Another way adaptive strategy works on these newer trucks - when we were doing the tuning R&D for the 5.4 3V F-150, we found that once we tuned the vehicle and dyno'd it, and then took the vehicle out and drove it for a couple hundred *hard* miles, we gained another 8-10 Hp on the dyno.
It's not your modifications that have cost you power after you accumulated some miles after installing your modifications - it's simply adaptive strategy at work. The bottom line is, unless something is happening like using cheap gas and/or a clogged fuel filter (from using sub-par fuels), you are simply experiencing the normal effects of adaptive strategy as you drive it more.
Remember, you have a very heavy truck there, and only a couple of mild bolt-on parts - and that is not going to make a "big" difference in such a heavy vehicle when lugging along at 40 mph, especially trying to go up a grade - ion that scenario, th engine is turning maybe 1200 rpm, the TQ is locked up, and that is because you are not calling for any real power - so as you go up a grade, yes, you *do*( have to give it some significant throttle to get the TQ to unlock, the transmission to downshift and get some torque multiplication going & allowing the engine to make some real power.
I do have one tip for you - in the 1714, [edit - The SuperChip product in question - dmp]*go back in and alter the 2-3 shift point manually - bump it up by exactly 2 notches - and I think you'll find that will help your driveability in that kind of scenario. Remember, the engine has to be able to turn some rpms & have some throttle opening to make any real power.
That is precisely why the truck ran great at first, but then, just exactly as you said, as you drove it more and more, it doesn't feel quite as strong - and it's noticeable in that scenario at 40 mph.
Adaptive strategy optimizes the powertrain operations for best fuel economy based on the manner in which the vehicle is operated most frequently - and even the most aggressive driver still doesn't spend 2%-5% of their time at WOT (wide-open throttle) - which is why as you drive it more after installing your mods, you seem to feel you have lost power. See, what happens when you flash the PCM with any tuning device is that it *also* clears out all previous adaptive strategy adjustments - same thing happens when you simply disconnect the battery for long enough, by the way - so the vehicle feels more peppy than "normal" when you first flash the PCM (even when going back to the stock factory tune). Then as you drive it, the more you drive it at less than heavy throttle, the more potential to see a small loss of power, up to about 3% or so across the board - it's simply adaptive strategy. Disconnect the battery for 10 minutes and you'll get that power right back - but then as you drive it "normally," you'll lose that 3% or so again. Perfectly normal, and it happens to everyone.
Now, can this be improved upon with our *custom* tuning? Yes, but only because we are getting larger power gains, not because it will negate the effects of adaptive strategy - you are always going to have that.
Another way adaptive strategy works on these newer trucks - when we were doing the tuning R&D for the 5.4 3V F-150, we found that once we tuned the vehicle and dyno'd it, and then took the vehicle out and drove it for a couple hundred *hard* miles, we gained another 8-10 Hp on the dyno.
It's not your modifications that have cost you power after you accumulated some miles after installing your modifications - it's simply adaptive strategy at work. The bottom line is, unless something is happening like using cheap gas and/or a clogged fuel filter (from using sub-par fuels), you are simply experiencing the normal effects of adaptive strategy as you drive it more.
Remember, you have a very heavy truck there, and only a couple of mild bolt-on parts - and that is not going to make a "big" difference in such a heavy vehicle when lugging along at 40 mph, especially trying to go up a grade - ion that scenario, th engine is turning maybe 1200 rpm, the TQ is locked up, and that is because you are not calling for any real power - so as you go up a grade, yes, you *do*( have to give it some significant throttle to get the TQ to unlock, the transmission to downshift and get some torque multiplication going & allowing the engine to make some real power.
I do have one tip for you - in the 1714, [edit - The SuperChip product in question - dmp]*go back in and alter the 2-3 shift point manually - bump it up by exactly 2 notches - and I think you'll find that will help your driveability in that kind of scenario. Remember, the engine has to be able to turn some rpms & have some throttle opening to make any real power.
#4
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Interesting stuff dmp. Thanks!
A question: Is the learning process continuous or does the PCM settle on the most fuel-efficient settings after initially sensing your driving style and not change those settings even if your driving style changes dramatically?
A question: Is the learning process continuous or does the PCM settle on the most fuel-efficient settings after initially sensing your driving style and not change those settings even if your driving style changes dramatically?
Last edited by Go48; 06-17-2005 at 06:18 PM.
#7
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Having only gotten my 8 three days ago I'm still learning the car. But my previous car ('90 Talon AWD) 'learned' based on driving. Some of the variables that are monitored are items like fuel-to-air ratio. If your driving habits tend to cause lean conditions, the entire fuel curve will gradually be increased and this will allow more agressive timing advance as well.
I've noticed my 8 has gotten significantly 'peppier' over the weekend. I'm assuming it's learning I'm an aggressive driver and is compensating.
Chris...
I've noticed my 8 has gotten significantly 'peppier' over the weekend. I'm assuming it's learning I'm an aggressive driver and is compensating.
Chris...
#8
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I thought I read this somewhere, that if you hit the brake 20 times in 10 seconds (or something like that...just hit the brakes very fast many times, if you have the L flash or later), it resets the ECU.
#9
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there is a sticky thread in the tech section that describes the ways to clear the learning memories- NVRAM and KAM-. the change in performance of your car during the weekend could have been due to learning but also due to changes in temp humidity and baro pressure
#10
Originally Posted by dmp
Not related to OUR ECU - but here's what a SuperChips dealer says about ECU learning on Ford Trucks....Interesting reading.
Interestingly, when I reconnected the negative lead to the battery, all of the exterior lights flashed several times and then went off. When I started the car for the first time all of the gauges went full clockwise to the stops and then back to their normal positions. Hardest part of the whole drill was resetting the clock and radio station memories :D
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