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Elevation new engine scare

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Old 08-21-2007 | 09:08 AM
  #26  
SureShot's Avatar
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From: Orange Park FL
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
Turbo FTW.
A turbo makes the altitude sea level, regardless of physical altitude (up to a point, but few of us will ever drive around at 20,000 feet).
This is also another argument against SC, since it will produce less and less boost as the altitude goes up.
Kind of-
They both both boost relative to ambient temperature & pressure.
The higher the altitude the less absolute boost pressure.

In typical automotive applications, turbos have more headroom so boost can be dialed up at altitude.
You only need an adjustable controller for the waste gate.

Superchargers can be (but rarely are) setup with more headroom.
Then variable boost controls would have to be added.
This would be expensive in automotive applications.

My dad worked on P38 turbos to prevent them from scattering at high altitude.
Ground testing didn’t reveal how fast they were turning to make absolute boost at high altitudes.
I worked around Wright R3350’s* that had a shaft driven SC with variable boost controls.

-Bill

*Wright R3350: State of the art early in the early 50's, 18 cylinder radial.
3350 Cu In, 3,350 HP, supercharged, water injection, 3 power recovery turbines geared to the shaft.
(And the little Renesis makes 2.9 HP/Cu In.)

Last edited by SureShot; 08-21-2007 at 09:31 AM.
Old 08-21-2007 | 02:11 PM
  #27  
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Lol, you mixed up Colorado and Ohio!! The Rocky mountains of Ohio

Harry)I expected the rocky mountains to be a little rockier than this
Lloyd) Me too. That John Denver's fulla ****, man
Attached Thumbnails Elevation new engine scare-dumbanddumber.jpg  
Old 08-21-2007 | 02:24 PM
  #28  
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From: Under my car
Originally Posted by SureShot
Kind of-
They both both boost relative to ambient temperature & pressure.
The higher the altitude the less absolute boost pressure.
Only if you have a purely mechanical wastegate control. Very few people with aftermarket turbo systems are without an electronic boost controller.
No matter what my altitude becomes, my absolute manifold pressure at maximum boost remains the same.

Doing that with a supercharger like the Pettit is not possible.
Old 08-21-2007 | 03:27 PM
  #29  
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From: Orange Park FL
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
Only if you have a purely mechanical wastegate control. Very few people with aftermarket turbo systems are without an electronic boost controller.
No matter what my altitude becomes, my absolute manifold pressure at maximum boost remains the same.
That sure dates me.
I'm thinking waste gate springs & manual boost controllers.
I forgot electronic boost controllers use MAP sensors.

Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
Doing that with a supercharger like the Pettit is not possible.
True - Of course with a huge budget anything is possible.
IIRC the R3350 compressor wheel was about 16" in diameter and boost was controlled with a bypass throttle.

-Bill
Old 08-21-2007 | 03:45 PM
  #30  
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From: Under my car
^^ Very dated, but terribly interesting. Thanks for that!

These days, the bypass limits boost by dumping it - there isn't enough finesse to control it.
Not to mention that you immediately run into the efficiency wall on a positive displacement unit if you "over-spin" it that way.
Old 08-30-2007 | 12:27 AM
  #31  
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From: San Francisco
could it be your exhaust problem? wanna sell it to me?
Old 08-30-2007 | 02:05 AM
  #32  
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From: Vegas Baby!
Originally Posted by SureShot
FWIW: Most big trucks are FI..
Yup Turbo baby! yeah!
Old 08-30-2007 | 06:46 AM
  #33  
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From: Buffalo Grove IL
Originally Posted by 05rx8mazda
This past summer i drove to Texas and back RACING ALL THE WAY BABY!!!! i havent had any issues with my baby..

Seems like she keeps getting faster as she ages lol Idk hah

35K miles and goin stronger than ever lol oh BTW this is like the 4th time i drive to chicago and back lol Fist trip I got like 19 MPG lol Crappy this last time Idk why but i was gettin 23.3 MPG lol 275 miles and still had a quarter of a gas tank left i was impressed..
Of course from Iowa to Texas, the highest elevation you'll reach is about 1000 feet above sea level.

I have not had my RX-8 out to Colorado but have driven there numerous times, most recently last summer in my Honda Odyssey.

ALL air-breathing vehicles suffer reduced performance at acceleration, and I-70 is definitely one of those really high spots up by the Eisenhower tunnel and points west. The amount of grade isn't helping you at all either - about 7% on that last six miles up to the tunnel.

Still, something is amiss in your engine - yes, some loss of acceleration is inevitable, but solveable by carrying more RPMS and climbing in 4th or even 3rd gear - traffic normally slows to 50 mph or so going up there. But if you're saying it would not even pull in 3rd gear, you've got a big problem ...

Stew
Old 09-04-2007 | 01:13 AM
  #34  
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From: Killeen, TX
i guess the natural lack of torque theory that our motors have doesnt play into this........

but yes, somethings amiss on your motor
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