End of Life... The reflections of an RX-8 Owner.
#1
Bottom feeder
Thread Starter
End of Life... The reflections of an RX-8 Owner.
It's been a while since I've been active on this board.. My RX-8 has been replaced as my primary DD car for the past 6 months.
I have close to 150k miles on it, but it still looks great. Unfortunately the motor is nearing the end of it's life. Compression isn't great but it starts up okay and runs pretty smoothly. Probably not as strong as when it was new. Gas mileage has declined over the past years, although it has never been great (as many of us can attest to!).
Anyway, I wanted to give you all an update and maybe some of you old timers can ring in also.
Some reflections on my experience with my '04:
-Wonderful sounding engine.
-Not incredibly powerful, but plenty quick.
-Very safe car. Lots of airbags, and the DSC has saved my *** more times than I wish to mention.
-Paint is excellent. Never had any problems with it, and I took good care of it. At glance, the car still looks new, actually. The only obvious signs of age are the graying black trim (from the hundreds of wax/polishes), and the chipping window sill trim. Fortunately none of the trim around the glass has peeled or decayed.
-The engine is capable of running very hot, so much the cat doesn't last too long. My first cat lasted about 40k miles before the ceramic internals disintegrated and completely blew out the back. It was replaced under warranty and the current one passed my latest smog test last year.
-Leather has held up considerably well, however the bottom of the steering wheel has scuffs.
-For a first year model, the car is phenomenally reliable. I have not had any major engine or drivetrain problems, until only recent (with the low compression). This excludes, of course, the flooding issue, which I have learned how to recover from and prevent. It's unfortunate that some owners have not had as much "luck" as I have with this car. I guess I have been blessed.
-I have not changed the oil on this car after my warranty expired @ 50k. I know it sounds crazy, but I just feed it new oil. I've mentioned this before on this site. And the only oil I have ever used was standard SAE 5W-20 (ford motor, penzoil or quakerstate). I would not do this with a normal piston engine car, but my understanding of the rotary engine enabled me to comfortably maintain my car this way. After all it was out of warranty and I have the right to maintain the car as I see fit (I hope this doesn't start a debate, it's just a matter of fact).
-Lastly, I regret forgetting to spend the $500 cash card that they compensated me after they re-rated the HP to 238 (from the advertised 250). On the other hand, due to a billing error, they credited me instead of charging me the $1000 deductible for a fender-bender I got into with a POS Ford Mustang several years back.
Anyway, I am reaching the point where I will have to choose either to have the engine rebuilt, which would cost about $5000, or to simply buy a new car, although I already have a DD. Another part of me wants to turn this into a project car (maybe an engine "upgrade", FI, some custom body work, etc).
Mazda has produced an incredible car, despite its ****-poor gas mileage and terrible customer service and deceptive warranty.
Would I buy another one had they kept producing them? Absolutely!
I have close to 150k miles on it, but it still looks great. Unfortunately the motor is nearing the end of it's life. Compression isn't great but it starts up okay and runs pretty smoothly. Probably not as strong as when it was new. Gas mileage has declined over the past years, although it has never been great (as many of us can attest to!).
Anyway, I wanted to give you all an update and maybe some of you old timers can ring in also.
Some reflections on my experience with my '04:
-Wonderful sounding engine.
-Not incredibly powerful, but plenty quick.
-Very safe car. Lots of airbags, and the DSC has saved my *** more times than I wish to mention.
-Paint is excellent. Never had any problems with it, and I took good care of it. At glance, the car still looks new, actually. The only obvious signs of age are the graying black trim (from the hundreds of wax/polishes), and the chipping window sill trim. Fortunately none of the trim around the glass has peeled or decayed.
-The engine is capable of running very hot, so much the cat doesn't last too long. My first cat lasted about 40k miles before the ceramic internals disintegrated and completely blew out the back. It was replaced under warranty and the current one passed my latest smog test last year.
-Leather has held up considerably well, however the bottom of the steering wheel has scuffs.
-For a first year model, the car is phenomenally reliable. I have not had any major engine or drivetrain problems, until only recent (with the low compression). This excludes, of course, the flooding issue, which I have learned how to recover from and prevent. It's unfortunate that some owners have not had as much "luck" as I have with this car. I guess I have been blessed.
-I have not changed the oil on this car after my warranty expired @ 50k. I know it sounds crazy, but I just feed it new oil. I've mentioned this before on this site. And the only oil I have ever used was standard SAE 5W-20 (ford motor, penzoil or quakerstate). I would not do this with a normal piston engine car, but my understanding of the rotary engine enabled me to comfortably maintain my car this way. After all it was out of warranty and I have the right to maintain the car as I see fit (I hope this doesn't start a debate, it's just a matter of fact).
-Lastly, I regret forgetting to spend the $500 cash card that they compensated me after they re-rated the HP to 238 (from the advertised 250). On the other hand, due to a billing error, they credited me instead of charging me the $1000 deductible for a fender-bender I got into with a POS Ford Mustang several years back.
Anyway, I am reaching the point where I will have to choose either to have the engine rebuilt, which would cost about $5000, or to simply buy a new car, although I already have a DD. Another part of me wants to turn this into a project car (maybe an engine "upgrade", FI, some custom body work, etc).
Mazda has produced an incredible car, despite its ****-poor gas mileage and terrible customer service and deceptive warranty.
Would I buy another one had they kept producing them? Absolutely!
#3
#4
Registered
Thats crazy that you never changed your oil after 50k. *not trying to start a debate* I know mine is filthy black after about 3k miles, and thats with a new filter every time. Just out of curiosity what does your oil look like? I am kind of surprised that your oil filter would not just completely clog up, I know there is a bypass valve in there but that can only do so much right?
#5
Momentum Keeps Me Going
^ Changing the filter spills almost no oil, filter is upright on a S1... can only imagine what 100K miles of crud looks like clumped up in the oil pan and choking the OMP lines lol. Whatever...
#6
crazy, you went 100k without changing the oil then? i always thought if it keeps burning oil and you keep putting new oil in surely you would just end up renewing the oil after a while.
#7
Bottom feeder
Thread Starter
not really crazy if you understand what you're doing. If people feel comfortable doing it one way good for them..
Anyway, I'd like to hear from other '04 owners if you're out there Or am the only one who's car is still working? LOL
Anyway, I'd like to hear from other '04 owners if you're out there Or am the only one who's car is still working? LOL
#10
The obvious factor here is the filter becoming completely clogged but lets just focus on the oil.
If you haven't changed the oil since 50k miles then technically oil that was added then is STILL in your car. It's the infinite dilution problem. While the amount of oil that has seen the last 100k miles has been decreasing it will never reach zero.
I wonder what that 100,000 mile used oil looks like lol.
But hey, as you said your car is still purring like a kitten so what do I know hah.
#11
Bottom feeder
Thread Starter
ok, perhaps and perhaps not. But it's a bit rude of a statement don't you think? I forgot the one thing about discussion forums, especially in regard to motor oil--everyone's an expert
Look, I haven't suggested anyone not change their oil. If you're worried about warranty, follow your manufacturer's guideline. I don't really care what you do, to be honest.. As for me, I followed mine, and once my warranty ran out, I maintained my car as I saw fit.
Think what you want about this unorthodox approach but I've gotten a solid 150,000 miles out of this car, plain and simple. Any argument thereafter is seemingly pointless. ie. I've gotten my money's worth.
ps. I don't maintain all my cars this way. As you know piston engines are very different, and I would never expect to get away with this sort of method!
Look, I haven't suggested anyone not change their oil. If you're worried about warranty, follow your manufacturer's guideline. I don't really care what you do, to be honest.. As for me, I followed mine, and once my warranty ran out, I maintained my car as I saw fit.
Think what you want about this unorthodox approach but I've gotten a solid 150,000 miles out of this car, plain and simple. Any argument thereafter is seemingly pointless. ie. I've gotten my money's worth.
ps. I don't maintain all my cars this way. As you know piston engines are very different, and I would never expect to get away with this sort of method!
#12
ok, perhaps and perhaps not. But it's a bit rude of a statement don't you think? I forgot the one thing about discussion forums, especially in regard to motor oil--everyone's an expert
Look, I haven't suggested anyone to not change their oil. If you're worried about warranty, follow your manufacturer's guideline. I don't really care what you do, to be honest.. As for me, I followed mine, and once my warranty ran out, I maintained my car as I saw fit.
Think what you want about this unorthodox approach but I've gotten a solid 150,000 miles out of this car, plain and simple. Any argument thereafter is seemingly pointless. ie. I've gotten my money's worth.
ps. I don't maintain all my cars this way. As you know piston engines are very different, and I would never expect to get away with this sort of method!
Look, I haven't suggested anyone to not change their oil. If you're worried about warranty, follow your manufacturer's guideline. I don't really care what you do, to be honest.. As for me, I followed mine, and once my warranty ran out, I maintained my car as I saw fit.
Think what you want about this unorthodox approach but I've gotten a solid 150,000 miles out of this car, plain and simple. Any argument thereafter is seemingly pointless. ie. I've gotten my money's worth.
ps. I don't maintain all my cars this way. As you know piston engines are very different, and I would never expect to get away with this sort of method!
Yeah sorry that came across as a bit rude. I'm actually quite intrigued by your choices because of the fact that the rotary can run on so many combustible products theoretically. It's fairly well known that these engines will not catastrophically fail due to immense heat unlike a piston engine which will simply seize up and die.
Like I said, your engine lasted with no major issues so what do I know lol.
Cheers
#14
Registered
....ss for me, I followed mine, and once my warranty ran out, I maintained my car as I saw fit.
Think what you want about this unorthodox approach but I've gotten a solid 150,000 miles out of this car, plain and simple. Any argument thereafter is seemingly pointless. ie. I've gotten my money's worth.
Think what you want about this unorthodox approach but I've gotten a solid 150,000 miles out of this car, plain and simple. Any argument thereafter is seemingly pointless. ie. I've gotten my money's worth.
Your theory about not changing the oil because you keep adding as the engine burns it is not totally irrational. What surprises me - as somebody mentioned above - is that the filter went that far without being fully clogged
BTW, why did you say your warranty expired at 50K miles? So the extended 8yr/100,000 did not apply to early models
#15
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Yeah sorry that came across as a bit rude. I'm actually quite intrigued by your choices because of the fact that the rotary can run on so many combustible products theoretically. It's fairly well known that these engines will not catastrophically fail due to immense heat unlike a piston engine which will simply seize up and die.
Like I said, your engine lasted with no major issues so what do I know lol.
Cheers
Like I said, your engine lasted with no major issues so what do I know lol.
Cheers
For the OP: What sort of driving did you do on DD duty? Redline a day? or not? Where's "bikini bay"? (ie what sort of climate are you in?)
A Series II would look nice next to the Lotus ... assuming $5/gallon gas isn't too big a problem.
#16
Rockie Mountain Newbie
Doesn't a good portion of the oil bypass the oil filter on the Series I engines anyway?
Chances are that oil filter is clogged, and its at 100% bypass right now.
I would probably recommend changing the filter at this point, just to get full crappy oil flow back into the engine.
BC.
Chances are that oil filter is clogged, and its at 100% bypass right now.
I would probably recommend changing the filter at this point, just to get full crappy oil flow back into the engine.
BC.
#17
ok, perhaps and perhaps not. But it's a bit rude of a statement don't you think? I forgot the one thing about discussion forums, especially in regard to motor oil--everyone's an expert
Look, I haven't suggested anyone not change their oil. If you're worried about warranty, follow your manufacturer's guideline. I don't really care what you do, to be honest.. As for me, I followed mine, and once my warranty ran out, I maintained my car as I saw fit.
Think what you want about this unorthodox approach but I've gotten a solid 150,000 miles out of this car, plain and simple. Any argument thereafter is seemingly pointless. ie. I've gotten my money's worth.
ps. I don't maintain all my cars this way. As you know piston engines are very different, and I would never expect to get away with this sort of method!
Look, I haven't suggested anyone not change their oil. If you're worried about warranty, follow your manufacturer's guideline. I don't really care what you do, to be honest.. As for me, I followed mine, and once my warranty ran out, I maintained my car as I saw fit.
Think what you want about this unorthodox approach but I've gotten a solid 150,000 miles out of this car, plain and simple. Any argument thereafter is seemingly pointless. ie. I've gotten my money's worth.
ps. I don't maintain all my cars this way. As you know piston engines are very different, and I would never expect to get away with this sort of method!
It would be incredible.
I am amazed your motor has lasted as long as it has, given what's already been stated about the dilution affect and the separate oil filter clogging issue.
#18
Registered
Yes, please do an oil test... I know you must be kinda curious yourself squidward.
These people will send you a free kit, and then it costs $25 for the test.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
These people will send you a free kit, and then it costs $25 for the test.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
#19
Bottom feeder
Thread Starter
Very impressive. Yet another example that oil weight has little to do - if nothing at all - with engine life.
Your theory about not changing the oil because you keep adding as the engine burns it is not totally irrational. What surprises me - as somebody mentioned above - is that the filter went that far without being fully clogged
BTW, why did you say your warranty expired at 50K miles? So the extended 8yr/100,000 did not apply to early models
Your theory about not changing the oil because you keep adding as the engine burns it is not totally irrational. What surprises me - as somebody mentioned above - is that the filter went that far without being fully clogged
BTW, why did you say your warranty expired at 50K miles? So the extended 8yr/100,000 did not apply to early models
Anyway, regarding your question...
When I bought the car I had paid an additional $1200 for an extended 7/100K mile warranty. I found out later that the extended warranty was severely limited, which pissed me off pretty bad, because they said it would *EXTEND* my car's warranty coverage to 100K. Instead, it actually covered a tiny fraction of what the standard 50K coverage was. At 60k I had a tiny oil leak and that wasn't covered (because it was they claimed it was an "electrical part" that was leaking, so it wasn't covered WTF??!). That is why I hate Mazda for ripping me off selling me a useless extended warranty. They found a reason not to cover any of my claims). I wrote a complaint to Mazda USA, to which I received no response. Each time I scheduled to bring the car in for something, they said "oh that is not covered in the extended warranty." When I request for a list of what *is* covered, they said that information was not available in printed form or online. Talks on the phone with them basically amounted to a "tough ****" attitude.. Anyway, I stated 50K, because that was effective bumper-to-bumper warranty. Because the leak was pretty insignificant (it dripped one or two droplets of oil throughout a day parked), I ignored it, and one day I noticed the the car had stopped leaking oil. Looking underneath the car, the area where the oil came from was dry and covered in dirt.. Sludge sealed the leak.
Last edited by Squidward; 02-26-2012 at 03:01 AM.
#20
Bottom feeder
Thread Starter
Yes, please do an oil test... I know you must be kinda curious yourself squidward.
These people will send you a free kit, and then it costs $25 for the test.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
These people will send you a free kit, and then it costs $25 for the test.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
We came back and everything was done.
BTW, Just a quick plug for my friend--if you guys are looking for awesome service and are located in LA, hit up A1 Automotive Services in Temple City. The owner is a personal friend and fellow Lotus owner and I trust them with any of my cars.
Last edited by Squidward; 02-26-2012 at 03:22 AM.
#22
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
This is the reason why buying a used car is always a gamble.
U were lucky your engine didnt die, but think of it this way, if u actually did change your oil your engine might last iver 200k easily.
And i hope u know that rotary engine actually has a higher oil requirements than a piston right?
Well it was your car you can do whatever you want, but i just feel sorry for your car.
And for those who said oil weight doesnt matter much, u can say that to the bearings. And bearing wear does effect engine life. If u ever build an engine you would have know.
U were lucky your engine didnt die, but think of it this way, if u actually did change your oil your engine might last iver 200k easily.
And i hope u know that rotary engine actually has a higher oil requirements than a piston right?
Well it was your car you can do whatever you want, but i just feel sorry for your car.
And for those who said oil weight doesnt matter much, u can say that to the bearings. And bearing wear does effect engine life. If u ever build an engine you would have know.
Last edited by nycgps; 02-26-2012 at 11:02 AM.
#23
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
My car is a July of 2003' build and has 127,000 miles on it and is on it's fourth motor And I haven't missed an oil change or gone over on anything maintenance wise Weird how things work out sometimes.
My extended 100k warranty covered a bunch of stuff and saved me a few thousand dollars when my ABS module was fried.
I love this car which is why I decided to dump $7,000.00+ on a new motor and turbo kit, etc.
My extended 100k warranty covered a bunch of stuff and saved me a few thousand dollars when my ABS module was fried.
I love this car which is why I decided to dump $7,000.00+ on a new motor and turbo kit, etc.
#24
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
My car is a July of 2003' build and has 127,000 miles on it and is on it's fourth motor And I haven't missed an oil change or gone over on anything maintenance wise Weird how things work out sometimes.
My extended 100k warranty covered a bunch of stuff and saved me a few thousand dollars when my ABS module was fried.
I love this car which is why I decided to dump $7,000.00+ on a new motor and turbo kit, etc.
My extended 100k warranty covered a bunch of stuff and saved me a few thousand dollars when my ABS module was fried.
I love this car which is why I decided to dump $7,000.00+ on a new motor and turbo kit, etc.
#25
Registered
Anyway, regarding your question...
When I bought the car I had paid an additional $1200 for an extended 7/100K mile warranty. I found out later that the extended warranty was severely limited, which pissed me off pretty bad, because they said it would *EXTEND* my car's warranty coverage to 100K. Instead, it actually covered a tiny fraction of what the standard 50K coverage was.
When I bought the car I had paid an additional $1200 for an extended 7/100K mile warranty. I found out later that the extended warranty was severely limited, which pissed me off pretty bad, because they said it would *EXTEND* my car's warranty coverage to 100K. Instead, it actually covered a tiny fraction of what the standard 50K coverage was.
Well...it depends. Usually "3rd party" warranties are a rip off. But some programs are worth considering. So far I've had a positive experience with Mazda pre-owned certified warranty (since I obviously bought mine used from a Mazda dealer.) Not too long ago the local dealer replaced both smart keys and module (the module would not receive a constant signal even with new batteries installed in the smart keys) It was close to a $500 invoice, but the 'extended warranty' took care of it.
From what I gather, the bulk of the evidence seems to indicate that low compression and coolant leaks are the primary reasons for short engine life.
But you are correct about the bearing issue. I've have reviewed the information about abnormal bearing wear in the renesis (and consulted with a couple of engine builders on this matter recently to confirm), and it seems like there's a correlation between that issue and the use of 5w-20.
The question remains: at what point would the "abnormal bearing wear" cause the engine to fail - provided that it had good compression all along? 10K? 50K 100K? I've been told that engine failures due to bearing wear/failure are mostly seen in highly boosted/high performance race engines.
In other words, have these engines been failing (and replaced under warranty) because of abnormal bearing wear?
I'm really trying to understand this issue better.
My car is a July of 2003' build and has 127,000 miles on it and is on it's fourth motor And I haven't missed an oil change or gone over on anything maintenance wise Weird how things work out sometimes.
My extended 100k warranty covered a bunch of stuff and saved me a few thousand dollars when my ABS module was fried.
My extended 100k warranty covered a bunch of stuff and saved me a few thousand dollars when my ABS module was fried.
BTW, was that a Mazda warranty?