Boilermaker

Hello Everyone,

I have been reading posts on this board for about 2 months now (about how long I have had my 8), it has been shown by many including canzoomer, rotory extreme and others that there is no way that our engine generates the revised 238HP. Could Mazda still be liable for false advertising? I'm not complaining, just wondering?

Thanks

Boilermaker

NAVILESRX8

iTrader: (1)

Who cares...........

Sanguine_Dark

Boiler,

I think you will likely find that most people who once heatedly debated this for ages are now sick and tired of discussing the HP issues with our cars. I personally am not but I'm also not in the 'debate' crowd. I highly doubt any false advertising / liability would ever stick as the engine likely makes 'close' to these numbers at the crank under engineering perfect conditions. Any other time, I really doubt it. :D

I won't be happy until I get 300hp out of my '8' so the RX-7 guys in the club will stop making fun of me (j/k)

Meowloud

Well, maybe Navile meant... who cares, it is a LOT of fun!

If you ask this in the hopes that "if I get it and it isn't all that you'd hoped for... can I sue?! " then I have little respect for that. It would seem to me that this attitude makes people 'one of those'. You know, those that sue if they don't get their way. Talk about not helping the judicial system. Ties up so much time of judges (especially specific judges for the civil system could move to criminal) not to mention wasting so much of OUR money.

I apologize for my rant if this was not the reason that prompted your question, but this is just how I read it. Please explain.

Boilermaker

I'm not trying to start a major debate or arguement, I test drove the car, loved it and think it has plently of power. I'm not talking about sueing anybody. I was just wondering if Mazda revised the horsepower, wouldn't they want to make sure they covered their as*, so that there was no room for interpertation, so that way they don't get sued by some butthead? I wouldn't care if they adversited 200HP for the 6spd, I bought the car cause it is a fun car. If I wanted muscle I would have bought a GTO or a Z.

Sanguine_Dark

Boiler,

I think if mazda went back and 'revised' their hp statement, they would open themselves up to far more potential lawsuits. If they stick with their original story then there is really just a lot of debate. This however is just my opinion. I have to agree that it sure is fun to drive.

Meowloud

Good for you Boilermaker! I was hoping to hear that! I would hate to think a forum member would be 'one of those' :D

As far as the legalities, surely their high-paid lawyers had to peruse all information before being final. -Or at least I would HOPE so!

(By the way, I work with a bunch of Boilermakers. Swell guys! Call me ma'am all the time :D )

Boilermaker

Sanguine_Dark and Meowloud,

Thank you for answering my question with educated answers. Thats why I asked the question (hense, the meaning of a question - because I didn't know)

NAVILESRX8

iTrader: (1)

Me, I don't really care what the claimed HP is, and I'm sick of all the talk about it. Do I believe it pumps out the full 238? No, not really. All I know is I was 100% satisfied when I bought the car....and after the L flash it is just even better. Whatever the real HP is.....it's just a great car.

JSE RX-8

no car pumps out their HP at the Fly number. its more important about the HP number at the wheels that the dyno gives. wait until turbo and supercharger kits come out and you can be putting down higher HP numbers lol

rotarygod

It wouldn't go anywhere in court. The argument is that they could just claim that no one is testing with the same methods they use and this is the reason for different numbers. Dyno numbers can be messed with so even asking them to prove it wouldn't go anywhere as I'm sure they could find a way to generate the numbers. The engine is easily capable of this power level but most of us agree that it isn't tuned to give it to us.

It really just comes down to buying the car because you liked it for what it is. As long as you are happy, numbers on paper mean nothing.

Blue87Sport

I suspect that if you looked at all the fine print, you'll find something like "all specifications are subject to change without notice" . I'm no lawyer but I think that keeps them out of legal hot water for issues like this.

Roaddemon

Tell me this. What 238 hp at the crank car will beat the 8 in the quarter mile. I don't know of any. will a 200 at crank hp car beat it. Idon't think so. My 8 will eat celicas, rsx-s, eclipses etc. It will stay even with a 240 hp accord 6 speed coupe. Those two are the same weight. It will also stay with or beat a 4000lb. 310hp 330 torque mercedes. 238hp seems about right in the RX8.
what exactly are you all comparing it to? You don't stand a chance with this issue. Wake up.

JimW

The sad thing is a few years from now we are going to get one of those class action lawsuit letters in the mail, you know, the kind that gives out 3 dollars to all RX8 owners while the blood sucking attorneys walk away with millions. I hope it doesn't come down to that, most of us enjoy our cars like it is and admire for it's handling, uncommon rotary motor, ride and looks. I sure wish Mazda would give it more power, if it is a problem, rather than some crappy lawsuit forcing the issue.

Ike

Actually the accord will walk you, I've seen stock 6 speeds trap around 97 mph, it also weighs around a ton more than an RX-8. An RSX Type-S is pretty close to being a drivers race...

GiN

I think in order to initiate the lawsuit, someone would actually have to prove that the motor isn't putting out 238hp at the crank. I'm not sure if there is anyone around who has gone and yanked their motor with all the electronics and plumbing and hooked it all up to an engine dyno as of yet.

In that sense, why are people making the assumption that the motor isn't putting out 238hp anyhow? Using quarter-mile times and seat-of-the-pants feeling is no way to make a claim against a specific hp number.

Ike

Traps speeds are a fairly decent measure of HP, the dynos have all been quite low for a RWD car that's supposed to be making 238hp at the crank.

mjd

Another question from all this...I've seen the many articles and specs that are out for the MazdaSpeed RX-8. They advertise 250 HP for that car. What are your initial thoughts about that? I would hope after the first fiasco with revising HP numbers that this will be more accurate.

brothervoodoo

I tend to agree from what I've read here and the dyno's I have witnessed. I don't believe it's putting down 238 even at the crank. Or the parasitic loss is the largest I have ever seen on a vehicle (one that includes a carbon fiber drive shaft no less) which makes that 238 figure moot to begin with. This car isn't a 0-60 superstar but when you add-up all that the 8 offers, it's a very nice package nonetheless. But yeah, I wonder where they came up with 238.

At a 15% percent loss to the wheels, people should dyno 200 rwhp and that's not happening in any form under stock conditions. Supposedly you need something like canzoomers mod to achieve this (to make it the way mazda intended).

Roaddemon

Don't be so sure. Both cars are listed at 5.9 0-60 and 14.5 in the quarter mile. The Accord weighs 250 lbs more than the rx8 but has alot more torque. I test drove the accord 6speed. I liked the handling and ride of the rx8 alot better and bought one.

Katchoo

I believe that Mazda has a buy-back program because they didn't reach thier stated HP goal. I ready this in the mazda magazine I picked up at the raceway the other day. Mazda is not advertising this too much and the dealers may not even be aware of it...but it exists.

If you are upset about that HP figure you can thus return your car and be happy.

Ike

Meant to say 200 not a tons haha. When I say walk I mean from a roll, the Accord owners have been able to best some of the mag times and at least match them when it comes to the 1/4 mile, which can't be said about RX-8 owners. I agree, the 8 handles better, but when you made your statements you weren't talking about handling.

Sea Ray

Katchoo,
The buy back was for those who preordered their cars, or bought very early on. The offer expired last year sometime around Oct. I believe. So I doubt anyone could get a buy back baised on the hp issue now.

Imp

227Hp WRXs.
Car & Driver:
0-60 mph in 5.4 seconds
14.1 seconds at 96 mph 1/4 mi.

--kC

Ike

Careful KC, or you'll get labeled as a troll :p And before anyone starts going on about the AWD advantage keep in mind the WRX has run low 14s stock before but is making within 10whp of most RX-8 dynos, and trapping about the same, even with the high drivetrain loose and lower rating at the crank.

EDIT: KC is messing with me by editing his posts :D