Spoonie

Why not?

Sputnik

'Cause it would cost them several thousand dollars per car, which would be added to the sticker price. I'd rather not, myself.

---jps

Spoonie

If Mercedes can include free maintenance on a $25,000 C230 Kompressor, Then why can’t Mazda do the same for the $29,000+ Mazda RX-8?

I find it hard to believe that Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi add thousand of dollars to the sticker price of their cars because of their "free scheduled maintenance" program, Hundreds maybe, but not thousands. The Audi A4 3.0 lists for approx $32,000 dollars, Maintenance included. The A4 is priced in the same range as the Infiniti G35 which does not include maintenance. The same goes for the $25,000 Mercedes 230 Kompressor.

Jerome81

Mercedes can do it because that C230 that base prices at $24,000 should really base price at about $20,000 based on what you actually get in that car.

Personally, I'd rather have them put some of that extra money into the car, rather than into providing me with free oil changes for 3 years.

Hercules

I'd say less than that even. You don't get ANYTHING in that C230, even the Mazda6 comes with more.

Spoonie

It's more than oil changes. 15K mi tune up is about $250-$300. 30Kmi tune-up is $500+. Not mention oil changes and the unnecessary fluid checks that they charge you for.

Also, the Equipment level of a Base Mercedes Benz C230, is more than that of any $25K and under Mazda. I put together a list of the standard items on a C230 (via) KBB.com.

Standard Equipment --------

Air Conditioning, Dual-Zone Automatic

Alarm System

Armrest w/Storage

Axle Ratio, 3.46

Battery, 100-Amp.

Brakes, Power F&R Disc

Braking System, Anti-Lock

Cargo Cover

Clock, Digital (Stand Alone)

Console w/Storage

Cup Holders

Defroster, Rear Window

Door Trim Panels, Cloth

Drivetrain, RWD

Engine: 4-Cyl., 16V, SFI, Supercharged, 1.8 Liter

Entry System, Illuminated Keyless Remote Control

Floor Mats

Fog Lights, F&R

Fuel Tank, 16.4 Gal. Cap.

Garage Door Opener

Headlamp Control, Auto

Lights: Daytime Running, Glove Box & Reading

Locking System, Central w/Automatic Door Locks

Mirrors, Dual Heated Power w/Turn Signals & Dual Illuminated Visor Vanity

Moldings, Body Side

Radio, AM/FM Stereo w/Cassette

Restraint System: Dual Front, F&R Head Curtain & Side Impact Air Bag

Seats, Cloth Sport Bucket w/Split Folding Rear

Slip Control, Automatic

Speed Control

Spoiler, Rear

Stability Program, Electronic

Stabilizer Bars, F&R

Steering Wheel, Leather-Wrapped w/Touch Controls

Steering Wheel, Tilt & Telescoping

Steering, Variable Assist Power

Tachometer

Telephone Pre-Wiring, Cellular

Tires, (4) P205/55HR16

Traction Control

Trans., 6-Spd. Manual w/Overdrive

Trip Computer

Trunk Entrapment Release

W/S Wipers, Heated Intermittent

Walk-in-Device

Wheels, Aluminum Alloy

Windows, Power


Which Mazda at $25K has this level of equipment standard? None, prove me wrong.
So if MB can do it, Mazda should be able to. No excuses. I don’t know who told you guys that the C230 didn’t come with anything standard, but they were misguided.

Spoonie

I just looked at the level of standard equipment for the millenia (sp?). The $29K+ Millenia barely had more standard equipment than the MB C-230 Kompressor. I could not find anything about the Mazda6's standard level of equipment but, the 626, MX-5 and protege' all have lower standard equipment levels than the C230. They should, they cost less.

pelucidor

Because Mercedes, Audi and BMW all have high-end vehicles where they make $10k profit per car or more - they can throw a few bones your way (even on their low end cars). Mazda doesn't.

I doubt it costs more than $1000 over 3 years for those manufacturers that offer free servicing (if the customer had to pay it would be more of course). Those cars that 'decide for you' when servicing is required might only require 2 oil-changes in the first 30k miles (total value $200?).

m477

Right....

Did you actually read the list? It's mostly stuff like "Windows", "Tires (4)", "Seats, cloth", "Battery"... etc.

Yeah, I don't know what mazda you could possibly get with a battery and four (yes, 4! ) tires for under 25k...

There's almost nothing on that list that isn't available standard on the cheapest economy cars like the Neon, Civic, etc.... please tell me that this was some kind of joke...

Check out CarsDirect.com, the c230 starts at $25k and loaded is nearly $33k. The RX-8 is supposedly $26k base and $30k loaded, and will DESTROY the c230 in any race without breaking a sweat... that's where the cost is: PERFORMANCE.

pelucidor

LOL. I was going to make the same point - a long list of nothing for the C230. Didn't Car & Driver once directly compare the $25k C230 to a $25k Hyundai XG300 and say the Hyundai was better?

Show me some REAL items like a CD player (missing) or VSC (missing) or power seats (missing) or auto-dimming mirrors (missing) or Xenon lights (missing) etc.

PatrickB

Spoonie, do you actually think that "free scheduled maintenance" is actally free? Do you think that the automotive companies are providing it out of sheer generousity and kindness? Of course they aren't. They're doing it because they charge more for their cars to cover the costs, and they can use it as a selling point for selling more cars at the higher prices.

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

-Patrick

brownchiro

Since we are paying MSRP, maybe the dealers should provide free maintenance.

Spoonie

Does a neon come standard with:

1) Alarm System
2) Armrest
3) Headlamp Control, Auto
4) Garage door opener
5) Mirrors, Dual Heated
6) Traction Control
7) Trans., 6-Spd. Manual w/Overdrive
8) Trip Computer
9) W/S Wipers, Heated Intermittent
10) Walk-in-Device (?)

It doesn't. Thats almost nothing? I dont like the MB230, but you are exagerating a little.

Spoonie

VSC = Traction control. And yes its standard on the C230.

Show me a Mazda or any other car that cost $25K or under that has Xenon lights, Power seats, and Auto-Dimming mirrors standard. Remember, We are talking about standard items, not options.

Spoonie

Where is the list of mazda6 standard options? So we can compare. Talk is cheap, You posted this before I posted my list of MB230 standard items so you are forgiven. The only item that the 6 will have standard that the MB230 doesn't is probably a CD player.

Spoonie

I'm Waiting...

zoom44

i think you got em on that one spoonie!

Sputnik

You're going to be paying for it one way or another. Whether it's calculated in the sticker price, or afterwards. The amount also depends on what is actually included in "maintenance", and what is considered "wear items".

---jps

Hercules

Why are you instigating? You looking for a fight or something?

Get lost, you continue to troll.

Spoonie

That is how you respond when you are defeated? Or if the conversation doesn't go your way? When I am wrong I accept it. You should do the same.

Immi

Hey Spoonie, you make some good points. However you have to remember that there is a huge difference between the two car companies. With mercs you tend to get more customer satisfaction perks; which include stuff like maintainance etc.... These perks are essentially what seperate the cars' costs and separate the car companies. Although free regulary maintainance was not included when I bought my car, but whenever I'm in the area of my dealership - I bring in the car for an oil change, check up and they do this for free.

I totally understand what you are saying though, this forum can be a little harsh at times

Spoonie

That is why I think Mazda should have a separate luxury car division, similar to Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus. The Millenia and the 929 would have qualified.

This forum is harsh sometimes. I guess some folks do not like it when you "shake up the establishment". It’s amazing how folks get personal here when you critique the RX-8.

PatrickB

The Mazda6s lists for 20k. It's standard equipment can be found at http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/mazd...tml?id=lin0014
Surprising that you couldn't find this yourself, since it was trivial for me. Easier to grandstand here than do a little legwork, I guess.

Anyway, the Mazda6s includes standard a 220 HP 3.0 liter 24-valve DOHC V6 with variable valve timing, traction control ,4-wheel ABS, 8-way adjustable power driver's seat with lumbar support, CD player, cruise control, steering wheel stereo controls, leather steering wheel and shifter, remote alarm, tilt/telescoping steering wheel, fold-down rear seats, and climate control with rear heating ducts.

You want 25k, though? Add the Bose stereo (includes 6-disc in-dash CD), leather package, rear and side curtain airbags, moonroof, and comfort package (heated seats and external mirrors), and you're at 24.5k MSRP, with Edmunds giving the price people are actually paying for that car at $23,090, giving you more features than the mercedes and $2000 in pocket for either the $800 sport package and $1200 in repairs or $2000 in repairs if you would rather.

jbebernes

And critique we must! I think the biggest service this forum provides is helping those of us willing to buy this car make a good decision. Let's hear it all - positive and negative!

BTW, Mercedes to Mazda is waaayy too apples and oranges to make a fair comparison of service programs....IMHO.

PatrickB

Oh, and to get the Bose stereo, sunroof, and leather on the C230 (with less power and cargo and seating capacity than the $23k Mazda6s), you have to add the $3000 premium package, giving you an MSRP of $28,500. Edmunds says that you'll have to pay at least that MSRP, too, and that most people are actually having to pay $200 *more* than MSRP for this car.

Again, do you really think that "free" maintenance is actually free?

TANSTAAFL.

-Patrick