Frustrated and Angry
11-18-2003 | 05:15 AM
#27
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Goleta, CA
Originally posted by zoomzooomp5
I drive my care like I autocross. At first I was getting 14 mpg. Then I realize I was doing the math wrong. I was dividing by 15.9 every time I calculate but I realize that I not putting 15.9 in my tank. I think the most I put in it was 15.2. I fill here up everytime at the last make and usually give me 14 gallon. Ever since, I've been averaging 16 mpg. My best was 18mpg, when I drove to San Diego to Disneyland.
I drive my care like I autocross. At first I was getting 14 mpg. Then I realize I was doing the math wrong. I was dividing by 15.9 every time I calculate but I realize that I not putting 15.9 in my tank. I think the most I put in it was 15.2. I fill here up everytime at the last make and usually give me 14 gallon. Ever since, I've been averaging 16 mpg. My best was 18mpg, when I drove to San Diego to Disneyland.
11-18-2003 | 06:04 AM
#28
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From: Alto, Michigan
Scottsdale,
Have you looked at the lemon law in CT? If there is one, get with the agency that administrates it and ask about whether your mileage would qualify. In Michigan, the dealer has to buy the car back if a problem returns after five visits to the dealer. Document every time you've talked to the dealer or Mazda, if you haven't, make sure they understand you aren't going away and pound on Mazda and the dealer. The squeaky wheel gets the grease!
Have you looked at the lemon law in CT? If there is one, get with the agency that administrates it and ask about whether your mileage would qualify. In Michigan, the dealer has to buy the car back if a problem returns after five visits to the dealer. Document every time you've talked to the dealer or Mazda, if you haven't, make sure they understand you aren't going away and pound on Mazda and the dealer. The squeaky wheel gets the grease!
11-18-2003 | 10:07 AM
#30
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From: Algonquin, Il....west of Chicago
I am with you Scottsdale.....it appears I am getting about 12-13 mpg!! I have an automatic and it has 500 miles on it! I agree we should get at least something close to the stated mpg on the sticker! This is the main thing that bothers me. I set my trip odometer after filling up and I had put like 25 miles on it and it's already at 1/4 tank less!!!! I have not figured exact mileage yet but I will.......it may be worse than I thought!! I will complain soon if it does not improve as the car breaks in!! Maybe more of us need to call mazda on this!!
11-18-2003 | 12:05 PM
#31
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: portland oregon
i know this seems like a silly question but is your trip odo switched to metric? on a trip to cali earlier this year i would get 300 to 330 out of15 gallons of gas. maybe that's where your math is off?
11-18-2003 | 12:18 PM
#32
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I drive 90% highway at 80mph and had been getting 16.5 MPG. Swiched to 89 from 93 and added air to 35psi from 29psi and got 18 MPG on my next tank. 800 miles or so on the odo. Hopefully it will get somewhat better. I was averaging 24mpg out of my aerodynamic as a brick PT Cruiser
Im pretty sure if you have the trip in metric, your speedometer is in metric as well.
Im pretty sure if you have the trip in metric, your speedometer is in metric as well.
11-18-2003 | 02:52 PM
#33
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From: Fairfield, CT
To All - Update. Taking all of your advice (much appreciated) I phoned Mazda NA and the dealership and, unfortunently, was informed that the ECU was updated when I experienced my other issue - fouled-out spark plugs due to turning off a cold engine to wash it on weekends...who knew.
I spoke to the Mazda NA rep and asked for some guidance. Mazda does have the dealer's paperwork confirming the gas mileage issue (the service center test showed average of 14.2 mpg) - they did not have any explanation other than "engine specific issues" whatever that means.
So - I asked for what would seem a reasonable option - I opted for the schedule service agreement and $500 due the hp issue. I elected that based on their assurance that the mileage would improve and was a common factor in new cars. First they said 500 mile break-in, than 1,000, than 3,000. I said with 5,000+ miles something should have improved, but the issue is actualy getting worse. Since I never have received the $500 or my new service card for scheduled maintenance - nullify the original option and replace this lemon with a new Velocity Red 6-speed GT. I have no interest in getting a different brand of car. Replace this one before I get in an accident from constantly watching the fuel gauge drop as I back out of the damn driveway!!
No word from Mazda on this request, but I will not give up on this issue.
I spoke to the Mazda NA rep and asked for some guidance. Mazda does have the dealer's paperwork confirming the gas mileage issue (the service center test showed average of 14.2 mpg) - they did not have any explanation other than "engine specific issues" whatever that means.
So - I asked for what would seem a reasonable option - I opted for the schedule service agreement and $500 due the hp issue. I elected that based on their assurance that the mileage would improve and was a common factor in new cars. First they said 500 mile break-in, than 1,000, than 3,000. I said with 5,000+ miles something should have improved, but the issue is actualy getting worse. Since I never have received the $500 or my new service card for scheduled maintenance - nullify the original option and replace this lemon with a new Velocity Red 6-speed GT. I have no interest in getting a different brand of car. Replace this one before I get in an accident from constantly watching the fuel gauge drop as I back out of the damn driveway!!
No word from Mazda on this request, but I will not give up on this issue.
11-20-2003 | 01:08 AM
#35
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Chicago
Libertyville, have you had any problems restarting the car if it has run for under 5 minutes or has not run long enough to heat up to normal temperature? Have you had yours long enough that you have experienced cold weather starts?
11-20-2003 | 01:26 AM
#36
Goh Mifune
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 850
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From: Green Oaks, IL
Originally posted by bbonnie
Libertyville, have you had any problems restarting the car if it has run for under 5 minutes or has not run long enough to heat up to normal temperature? Have you had yours long enough that you have experienced cold weather starts?
Libertyville, have you had any problems restarting the car if it has run for under 5 minutes or has not run long enough to heat up to normal temperature? Have you had yours long enough that you have experienced cold weather starts?
-----------
Short Trip Driving Procedure:
Any trip that is too short for the engine to reach normal operating temperature; needle in the middle of temperature gauge indicates normal temperature.
1. Start the engine
2. Move vehicle
3. Warm the engine for 5-minutes at idle
4. Raise enginge speed to 3000 RPM for 10-seconds
5. Return to idle
6. Turn off engine.
TIP: Warming up engine improves engine life.
----------
This clearly should have been in the manual.
As I understand it, failure to allow the car to warm up will flood the engine. (See the manual, page 7-20, for details on starting a flooded engine.)
I've had no cold-weather starts yet... 30 - 40 degrees F, coldest so far.
Do you have a theory as to why my mileage (so far) has been good?
11-20-2003 | 01:44 AM
#37
no pistons!
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 434
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From: ORANGE COUNTY, CA
Yes I agree with the original poster. I have an average of 15 MPG... that is freakin ridiculous. This is neither a truck nor a high performance engine. Why o why do we receive such shitty *** power to the wheels using SOOO MUCH GAS? Where is the gas going - thats what I WANT TO KNOW. No matter where I drive it and I have driven in many different situations... the MPG does not change. I drive very conservatively to save gas... HA what a joke... same thing. I end up within a few days commuting average of 40 miles a day filling up every 6-7 days. This means I am ON EMPTY ORANGE LIGHT when I am refilling. Refilling this often is like I have a damn H2 Hummer... oh yeah I am having problems with the EMPTY light going off and then 10 mins later when I am desperately trying to find a gas station in a city I do not know, it goes back up to being a little less than 1/4... WTF? This is quite annoying!
Oh yeah and all you people that think "re-flashing" the ECU is gunna make a difference - I highly doubt it. I am looking forward to having my ECU tuned by one of the BEST TUNERS from Japan. He constantly tunes high performance vehicles and for about $200 + $100 per/hour he will tune my ECU to provide additional power. However I do not count on him helping me save gas... (improve MPG) rather increase performance.
Oh yeah and all you people that think "re-flashing" the ECU is gunna make a difference - I highly doubt it. I am looking forward to having my ECU tuned by one of the BEST TUNERS from Japan. He constantly tunes high performance vehicles and for about $200 + $100 per/hour he will tune my ECU to provide additional power. However I do not count on him helping me save gas... (improve MPG) rather increase performance.
11-20-2003 | 07:05 PM
#39
adkdai8e dkadloi98
Joined: Feb 2003
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someone asked if Rx-7's are the same in gas mileage. I have had my rx7 for 2 years, with my original and new engine I get 17-18 city and 23/25 highway. If I'm really pushing it I hard I can get 15 mpg.
I have 350 rwhp and twin turbo on my 94.
I have 350 rwhp and twin turbo on my 94.
11-20-2003 | 07:14 PM
#40
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I wonder what the government/EPA rules are regarding a car company showing one thing and the actual mileage being different... is there something owners can do, such as a class-action lawsuit if any laws apply... ?
11-20-2003 | 07:28 PM
#41
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 528
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From: Aurora, CO
I previously posted the below regarding EPA fuel economy testing:
"The results of the EPAs tests were seen briefly on Mazda's website and caused some initial high hopes. Does anybody remember what they were?
20.4 mpg city / 30.2 mpg highway
The EPA's numbers were actually 20.402 mpg city / 30.2244 mpg highway (23.8967 mpg combined). These EPA unadjusted figures are determined by running 2 driving schedules on dynos. To test city/urban economy, the EPA measured fuel usage on their LA-4 driving schedule (aka FTP-72, UDDS, etc). To test highway fuel economy, the EPA measured fuel usage on their Highway Fuel Ecomony Test (HWFET) driving schedule.
So how did the numbers change from 20.4/30.2 to 18/24? Sorry to proponents of conspiracy theories but www.fueleconomy.gov has the answer:
"To make the numbers in the Fuel Economy Guide more useful for consumers, EPA adjusts these laboratory test results to account for the difference between controlled laboratory conditions and actual driving on the road. The laboratory fuel economy results are adjusted downward to arrive at the estimates in the Fuel Economy Guide and on the labels seen on new cars, light trucks, and vans. The city estimate is lowered by 10% and the highway estimate by 22% from the laboratory test results. Experience has proven that these adjustments make the mileage estimates in the Fuel Economy Guide correspond more closely to the actual fuel economy realized by the average driver."
20.402 * .9 = 18.4 city mpg
30.2244 * .78 = 23.6 highway mpg
How many people here knew that that? The EPA verifies their above preproduction testing results on 10 - 15% of the production models.
There are many factors which can affect individual fuel economy but if anyone here doubts the EPA results, they should be able to find a certified testing center that can simulate the FTP-72 and HWFET dyno tests under federal testing conditions."
The 18/24 figures (actually 18.4/23.6) that people see on the window sticker are not made up by the manufacturer. The 6-spd RX-8 actually has lower highway fuel economy than any previous production RX-7 due to the gearing of it's top gear.
Brian
"The results of the EPAs tests were seen briefly on Mazda's website and caused some initial high hopes. Does anybody remember what they were?
20.4 mpg city / 30.2 mpg highway
The EPA's numbers were actually 20.402 mpg city / 30.2244 mpg highway (23.8967 mpg combined). These EPA unadjusted figures are determined by running 2 driving schedules on dynos. To test city/urban economy, the EPA measured fuel usage on their LA-4 driving schedule (aka FTP-72, UDDS, etc). To test highway fuel economy, the EPA measured fuel usage on their Highway Fuel Ecomony Test (HWFET) driving schedule.
So how did the numbers change from 20.4/30.2 to 18/24? Sorry to proponents of conspiracy theories but www.fueleconomy.gov has the answer:
"To make the numbers in the Fuel Economy Guide more useful for consumers, EPA adjusts these laboratory test results to account for the difference between controlled laboratory conditions and actual driving on the road. The laboratory fuel economy results are adjusted downward to arrive at the estimates in the Fuel Economy Guide and on the labels seen on new cars, light trucks, and vans. The city estimate is lowered by 10% and the highway estimate by 22% from the laboratory test results. Experience has proven that these adjustments make the mileage estimates in the Fuel Economy Guide correspond more closely to the actual fuel economy realized by the average driver."
20.402 * .9 = 18.4 city mpg
30.2244 * .78 = 23.6 highway mpg
How many people here knew that that? The EPA verifies their above preproduction testing results on 10 - 15% of the production models.
There are many factors which can affect individual fuel economy but if anyone here doubts the EPA results, they should be able to find a certified testing center that can simulate the FTP-72 and HWFET dyno tests under federal testing conditions."
The 18/24 figures (actually 18.4/23.6) that people see on the window sticker are not made up by the manufacturer. The 6-spd RX-8 actually has lower highway fuel economy than any previous production RX-7 due to the gearing of it's top gear.
Brian
11-20-2003 | 08:13 PM
#42
Goh Mifune
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 850
Likes: 0
From: Green Oaks, IL
I suspect Mazda USA never makes statements about the fuel economy of these cars -- instead, they just restate the EPA test figures. This is smart for two reasons: 1) it sets up an easy defense to a fraud claim by preventing the plaintiff from showing reliance on the seller's misstatement of an affirmative fact, a typical condition of brining a fraud claim and 2) other car dealers can't make out an unfair business practices in how MPG figures are advertised by their competition, since this is how they all advertise MPG.
How is it in other countries? Do other governments label vehicles the same way as is done in the U.S., or is Mazda and the other car manufacturers making statements about the expected fuel economy of the RX-8? I'd like to hear what Mazda is telling consumers in Japan, Canada, Great Britain etc. about what to expect.
Another question of interest for someone with EXCEL skills and the time to thoughtfully go through the information at www.fueleconomy.gov:
My window sticker says that my AT gets 18/25, and that my "estimated average fuel cost" is $1,142. What would the estimated average be if the fuel numbers changed?
Figuring out what the actual cost of the fuel economy "disappointment" some of us are having might make people feel a bit better -- or perhaps worse. Is $200, $500 or $800 per year so much that you'd sell your car? Or is it just that your feel ripped off? Or is it just stopping for gas and breathing all those fumes that's got you down?
How is it in other countries? Do other governments label vehicles the same way as is done in the U.S., or is Mazda and the other car manufacturers making statements about the expected fuel economy of the RX-8? I'd like to hear what Mazda is telling consumers in Japan, Canada, Great Britain etc. about what to expect.
Another question of interest for someone with EXCEL skills and the time to thoughtfully go through the information at www.fueleconomy.gov:
My window sticker says that my AT gets 18/25, and that my "estimated average fuel cost" is $1,142. What would the estimated average be if the fuel numbers changed?
Figuring out what the actual cost of the fuel economy "disappointment" some of us are having might make people feel a bit better -- or perhaps worse. Is $200, $500 or $800 per year so much that you'd sell your car? Or is it just that your feel ripped off? Or is it just stopping for gas and breathing all those fumes that's got you down?
Last edited by MEGAREDS; 11-20-2003 at 08:20 PM.
11-20-2003 | 08:26 PM
#43
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5
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From: Louisville, KY
Man, I hear you!
I ordered mine in April and got it in September. I have 2500 miles on it and regardless how I drive it I get 15mpg city and 19 hgwy. Many folks tell me to wait until the engine is broken in but what the heck is that about? All I want is the sticker down here in kentucky which said 18 to 23 too.
I am going to take mine back to the dealer and have them run an engine diag. This is total crap!
I ordered mine in April and got it in September. I have 2500 miles on it and regardless how I drive it I get 15mpg city and 19 hgwy. Many folks tell me to wait until the engine is broken in but what the heck is that about? All I want is the sticker down here in kentucky which said 18 to 23 too.
I am going to take mine back to the dealer and have them run an engine diag. This is total crap!
11-20-2003 | 11:32 PM
#44
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 36
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Hello.. start checking you mileage at 10k.. under that it isn't broken in. ...500 miles and you are complaining?? Go drive the car. I just dislike all the finding fault with a good car. Nothing is pefect, get some *****, live life..
11-21-2003 | 01:39 AM
#46
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Louisville, KY
Where do you get the over 10k it is broken in info for the engine? I have over 2500 miles, not 500. How many miles do you have on your car and what is your mileage to date?
All I want is performance as advertised.
Signed,
***** the size of watermelons
All I want is performance as advertised.
Signed,
***** the size of watermelons
11-22-2003 | 08:09 AM
#47
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Fairfield, CT
All - Update #2
If I was getting, as someone posted 15/19 I would be out driving this morning! I have gotten ON AVERAGE 190 miles to a tank. Yes TO A DAMN TANK. I cannot figure this car out.
Anyhow - I sent a certified letter to Mazda, as suggested in the supplement to the owners manual we all received, and Mazda wrote back to me yesterday. Do you know what they said - SUE US UNDER THE LEMON LAW, IF YOU CAN, BUT THEY ARE THROUGH WITH ME ON THIS ISSUE.
Let's recap - I took the rebate versus the buy-back offer based on everyone's assurance that this was a temporary issue. I would have taken the buy-back and bought a duplicate RX-8 (I love this car!) - but know I rested on the assurance. Damn fool.
The buyback option closed on October 1 and Mazda will not "reconsider" you selection - even though I haven't received a damn thing to date. No maintenance card, no $500. NOTHING!
Folks - I came home last night and realized that I have not had one day of enjoyment with this car. I waited 7 long years for the return of the rotary and now I sit hit like a hypochondriac looking at the gas gauge instead of the road. It's like going to your anniversary dinner with a spouse who you know is unfaithful. I cannot live in the moment with this lemon.
So - last option - call an attorney and see if I can pursue this under the CT Lemon Lw. If not, as much as this is going to hurt me personally and financially, I am heading either the the Jaguar dealer for a new X-Type, or the Infinity Dealer for the G35 coup. I need to enjoy this purchase or I would be better off on the Metro!
If I was getting, as someone posted 15/19 I would be out driving this morning! I have gotten ON AVERAGE 190 miles to a tank. Yes TO A DAMN TANK. I cannot figure this car out.
Anyhow - I sent a certified letter to Mazda, as suggested in the supplement to the owners manual we all received, and Mazda wrote back to me yesterday. Do you know what they said - SUE US UNDER THE LEMON LAW, IF YOU CAN, BUT THEY ARE THROUGH WITH ME ON THIS ISSUE.
Let's recap - I took the rebate versus the buy-back offer based on everyone's assurance that this was a temporary issue. I would have taken the buy-back and bought a duplicate RX-8 (I love this car!) - but know I rested on the assurance. Damn fool.
The buyback option closed on October 1 and Mazda will not "reconsider" you selection - even though I haven't received a damn thing to date. No maintenance card, no $500. NOTHING!
Folks - I came home last night and realized that I have not had one day of enjoyment with this car. I waited 7 long years for the return of the rotary and now I sit hit like a hypochondriac looking at the gas gauge instead of the road. It's like going to your anniversary dinner with a spouse who you know is unfaithful. I cannot live in the moment with this lemon.
So - last option - call an attorney and see if I can pursue this under the CT Lemon Lw. If not, as much as this is going to hurt me personally and financially, I am heading either the the Jaguar dealer for a new X-Type, or the Infinity Dealer for the G35 coup. I need to enjoy this purchase or I would be better off on the Metro!
11-22-2003 | 10:53 PM
#48
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 83
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From: CA
Get the G35 man. There are options other than Mazda.
Get an attory or sue Mazda at a small claims court for not fulfilling the promise of $500 and free maintenance. It's bull for Mazda to stand up to the deal.
Sorry you are having so much problem. Mazda should fix your car or give you a new one instead of you messing with a new customer.
Get an attory or sue Mazda at a small claims court for not fulfilling the promise of $500 and free maintenance. It's bull for Mazda to stand up to the deal.
Sorry you are having so much problem. Mazda should fix your car or give you a new one instead of you messing with a new customer.
11-27-2003 | 09:02 AM
#49
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 195
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From: Alto, Michigan
I wrote to the EPA a couple weeks ago and asked if consumers could get any assistance if mileage was 30% below the EPA window sticker. I had a great conversation with an EPA representative, but bad news: He suggested to follow the book, our owners manual, page 9-2 has instructions on how to resolve issues by contacting the dealer, then if necessary, contact Mazda North America. I think the state Lemon laws are another option. Read up on them and follow the protocol to the letter!
I'm starting a new thread with my notes on EPA testing, etc
I'm starting a new thread with my notes on EPA testing, etc
11-27-2003 | 10:40 AM
#50
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From: Fairfield, CT
Thanks Charles.
I sent a certified letter to Mazda NA as instructed in the supplemental owners manual. So far, no response. I contacted an attorney to resolve this issue and, believe it or not, he has had 6 owners in the NYC area contact his firm on the same issue.
I have a personal dislike against class-action suits and that is not the route I plan to take, but it helps knowing your options. The attorney has been very helpful in fine-tuning my knowledge of the Lemon Law.
By the way - Mazda sent me to the Service Manager at the dealership where I bought the car. I spoke to this gentlemen and he was well aware of the issue as it seems the owner of the dealership bought the second RX-8 that arrived (as I bought the furst!) and guess who is receiving worse mileage than me...yup, the owner of the Mazda dealership! Poetic justice and helpful to my cause,,,let's hope.
I told Mazda that I will not let this issue rest until they do something to help resolve this issue. Again, all I want to do is enjoy this car, but this issue is so distracting. FOr those of you keeping score, my last tank was a new low at 178 miles per tank. This is getting old.
I sent a certified letter to Mazda NA as instructed in the supplemental owners manual. So far, no response. I contacted an attorney to resolve this issue and, believe it or not, he has had 6 owners in the NYC area contact his firm on the same issue.
I have a personal dislike against class-action suits and that is not the route I plan to take, but it helps knowing your options. The attorney has been very helpful in fine-tuning my knowledge of the Lemon Law.
By the way - Mazda sent me to the Service Manager at the dealership where I bought the car. I spoke to this gentlemen and he was well aware of the issue as it seems the owner of the dealership bought the second RX-8 that arrived (as I bought the furst!) and guess who is receiving worse mileage than me...yup, the owner of the Mazda dealership! Poetic justice and helpful to my cause,,,let's hope.
I told Mazda that I will not let this issue rest until they do something to help resolve this issue. Again, all I want to do is enjoy this car, but this issue is so distracting. FOr those of you keeping score, my last tank was a new low at 178 miles per tank. This is getting old.