wakeech

serious??? no, but we just try to come together to think, speculate, and learn, that's all...

ilovepotatos

Like the giant think tanks at smoking companies...
*Contemplates his future of working at Marlboro...*

max_stirling

Though, I agree with your post, that there are numerous amount of factors that go into tuning an engine, especially, a rotary one. This is exactly why race teams spend millions, tens of millions to squeeze out just a few more ponies out of their engines to get an advantage over the competition.

I also know that tuning race engines are an extreme analogy, but it gets the point across. Tuning factory engines aren't as expensive or technical, but similar and on a smaller scale. And as everyone knows, there are a lot of tuners out there squeezing incredible amounts of power out of little engines. Some are reliable, some are not.

In addition, I agree with another poster that a turbo kit (w/ a reprogramed ECU and bigger injectors) with exhaust and intake mods could take the RX-8 to 400+HP. Heck, there are many RX-7's out there with 350-400 WHP that's driven everyday or cross country. And this is with an turbo charged engine producing 255HP from the factory. Imagining 400HP from a factory NA engine producing 250HP is not far fetched.

Of course, the amount of R&D a tuner performances and the amount of expertise applied to the kit will determine how reliable the kit will be. Also, the amount of care the owner takes in maintaing his/her tuned ride will also factor in to longivity.

Personally, if I do buy a RX-8, at some point, there will be a turbo kit installed in it. The purchase price of the car (would consider buying a used one) and the amount of available funds will determine when the kit gets installed. I just love the thrill of the ride too much when the turbos kick in and you're pinned to your seat.

max_stirling

For a while, I was really enamored with the Audi S4. A factory tuned 2.7L TT V6 producing 250HP. Of course, I knew that I would not be satisfied with the factory output, but I thought that would be a descent starting point that would quench my thirst for speed and power, at least, initially. Wrong.

I went to a local Audi dealer and asked for a test drive. NOTE: if you call ahead and make an appointment with a salesman at the dealer, they are much more willing and nice about giving you the keys for a test drive.

Anyway, I took it out and wrung the heck out of it. Due to the time and area I was in, I didn't get an adequate impression of the Audi's cornering abilities, but I did get to feel what the little Passat on steriods could do with pedal planted on the floor through 3 gears and I was totally unimpressed.

I was expecting the world to fly right by me in a blur with my head pinned against the head rest. That was nothing liked what I experienced. Granted the ride was fast, but the engine and power delivery was so smooth and flat, that it didn't feel fast. I was disappointed and have since dropped my ambitions to own one.

When the turbos in the RX-7 kick in, you know it and it makes me think of what it must feel to be catapulted off a deck of an aircraft carrier, but, of course, not as extreme.

That is the feeling I want from the RX-8 and that is why I will install a turbo kit in it.

max_stirling

I've been trying to keep up with the forum and I have read the tread about the RX-8 and straight line performance and I agree with the posters that argue for balance and handling in addition to the power, but without power what you have is a Miata. No offense to the two seat convertible grouppies. I've driven Miata's and I love them too.

I take my RX-7 to the track and I don't mean the straight ones that are a 1/4 mile long. Actually, I've never raced my RX-7 at a quarter mile track. When at the track, cars are usually divided up by driver ability and power of the vehicle. Usually, the RX-7's run together and the Miata's run together, but in different sessions. Of course, there will be turbo charged Miata that will hang with stock RX-7's and occasionally, a green RX-7 driver will show up at track days and will have to run with the Miata's, but those are the exceptions.

I do have to give credit where it is due. The Miata is a very balanced and incredibly good handling car, and that is the reason why they tend to dominate autocrosses or spec class race series, but the RX-7 not only has the balance and handling of a Miata, but also the power of a Porsche. This is why one will more likely see 3rd gen RX-7's running around a track than 300ZX TT, Supra TT, or the portly 3000 GT VR-4.

We can have the best of both worlds. We all know from magazine reports and such that the RX-8 will handle well. Maybe even better then the legendary 3rd gen RX-7, but a high peak HP and no more than 250 of them at any one point, the RX-8 will not be able to keep up with the M3's, Corvettes, or the Vipers at the track. But with 400HP and a sub-3K lbs body, watch out! The rest of you guys be ready to stick your hand out window and show me a passing lane.

PS: Sorry for the long posts. I tried breaking them up to make them more bite sized.

Zio

It's surprising to hear that rotary engines dont last as long as pistons. Seeing as how rotary engines have less moving parts and they appear to spin in 1 direction while a piston is constantly moving up and down and changing direction.

RotorMotor

I wouldn't say that quite so carte blanche. My dad's '80 RX-7 made it until 2001 (and 260k or so miles) on the original engine. That said, a think that a number of others will agree that rotaries require a little more care and are more succeptable to neglect than piston-based engines, but I don't think you can make a blanket statement that they're not as reliable....

Take a look at Boowana's post about reliablity:
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1308

Zio

I actually should have quoted this, but I never said they weren't reliable. I just thought it was surprising to hear that they were from this guy's post.

xkpbreaker

Yea, I remember that quote..... I was just telling the "non-belivers" that my friends 12sec Rx-7 still lasts after 200k miles....

I do agree that rotaries DO need lil bit more special attention then the piston engines do and all I can say is .. its well worth the attention...

manntis

I said it such mods would fuel RUMOURS of rotary unreliability - I did NOT say rotors were unreliable.

GM waged a campaign of propeganda in the 70's to paint rotary technology as gas guzzling engines that wouldn't last beyond 100,000 miles. They did this mainly because they weren't able to make rotaries work, and refused to admit that a small, 'foreign' company could succeed where they failed.

ilovepotatos

I hate GM and all it's counter-parts. Yuck.
I just hate them even more now!
Go Ford (And obviously Mazda), who is owned by the best of...
The (not so) Big 3!

Zio

Ah I see, sorry about the mix-up. Anyway, GM cars dont last more than 100,000 miles anyway, piston or not. It's kind of a let down that Ford bought a chunk of mazda seeing that all american cars dont last long. I believe the RX-8 is being produced in Japan, so thats good anyway.

ilovepotatos

I don't like how Ford is taking over Mazda, when it puts Ford engines in a mazda.
However, Mazda was doing poorly, and they need moola.
Its an old saying that:
Money helps the rotary go round.