spwolf

ok, once for all, Tiptronic is NOT clutchless manual.... It is Audi's Automatic with options of changing the gears manually.

Sporty Clutchless manual is most notably present in new Alfa's (Selespeed, derived from Ferrari system) and Toyota MR2 where it is called SMT. It does NOT have an automatic mode. In both cases, it only has paddles on the steering wheel... on the other hands, Tiptronic has "buttons" on the steering wheel and normal Automatic shifter between front seats.

Just wanted to clear that up.

Apex

Does anybody realize the potential of the sequential shifter?
It is flawless, even the best race car drivers know that. Many race car types use similar equipment. This is simply a better transmission because we, as humans, still have to tell our left leg to depress the clutch, timing and pressure will always fluctuate resulting in power loss and damage to the clutch/pedal mechanisms and the rest of the drivetrain and drivetrain related equipment. A friggin computer operated clutch, push button (not quite the same but better, more accurate, than a foot pedal) or a system of "compression disks" is like giving the machine more control of the redundant or "machine-like" equipment. These systems can also lower the weight of the car depending on it's quality (the weight will increase otherwise). Until a neural interface is created this is the best, safest, and most consistent way to shift through gears (especially 6 of them!).
I might be wrong to some of you...
At least don't dog those who appreciate it.
Heck I won't be able to afford it probably, but I'd like to think it would be a good option on all performance vehicals in the future.

Apex

spwolf

Actually I was trying to point out how "manumatics" (which is what they are called) are much cooler than ur usual Audi Tiptronic... plus they are cheaper to get and maintain as well... and weight less...etc, etc ;-)

91vert

Yeah really.....less **** to go wrong and cost a fortune to get fixed.

I don't know about the rest of you, but even considering the disadvatages a true manual transmission as stated by Apex, I personally like the feeling of control I have with a clutch pedal and moving the gearshift myself.

Sure there are times when we don't shift exactly at the "correct" time, but that is my choice...and my fault if I don't extract every ounce of torque during acceleration.

Every car I've had so far that has had an automatic tranny controlled by a computer has always had some retarded shift pattern problem of some kind. They claim they are supposed to "learn" your driving style.....sure whatever. My 99 Millenia S never shifts when you would normally expect it to. Some times you punch it and it won't downshift....other times it shifts too early. It sucks!

I just want a simple 6-speed manual gearbox with a nice smooth short throw......but that's just my opinion.

nk_Rx8

I understood what you were saying in your first post. I also get annoyed when people talk like a 'tiptronic' is the same as a true sequential shifter. For example, I was talking to someone about the SMG2 in the new M3 and they responded about how it probably would suck because they tried something similar in an Audi and a Prelude. It took a lot of convincing that those didn't really have a clutch and were still basically automatics.

nk_Rx8

I've never driven a true sequential yet, so I don't know if I would prefer it over driving a real manual. But I have to admit the idea of it really intrigues me - especially after reading about BMW's SMG2 system. I remember a review posted where a guy would switch between a SMG2 equipped M3 and a non-SMG M3 and was consistently faster around the track in the SMG2 equipped M3.

Apex

Originally posted by spwolf
Actually I was trying to point out how "manumatics" (which is what they are called) are much cooler than ur usual Audi Tiptronic... plus they are cheaper to get and maintain as well... and weight less...etc, etc ;-)
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I understood what you were saying in your first post. I also get annoyed when people talk like a 'tiptronic' is the same as a true sequential shifter. For example, I was talking to someone about the SMG2 in the new M3 and they responded about how it probably would suck because they tried something similar in an Audi and a Prelude. It took a lot of convincing that those didn't really have a clutch and were still basically automatics.

!!!!!
I didn't state that I was ALWAYS talking about the TIPTRONIC. I was making a comparison of them. It was a original part on the RX-8 and I thought if anything, I'd get that for it's longetivity since the others would probably not.

I did state that there are many types of transmissions without the need of a peddle. Some are computer operated (button), some are operated by temperature and pressure (gate and auto), others operated by pneumonic or hydraulics even (button), then there have been some that ran by the revs alone (rig auto). Many of these are more efficient and durable than a manual, in any condition. They are sometimes lighter than a regular manual. I have found that automatics outlast manual transmissions and that the others listed above have that tendency also while still giving the driver optimal control.
I also stated that it wouldn't be bad to have it as a option from the get go, not on the standard. I said my piece and gave my reasons for believing that, what’s with the heat.
Did you even read the post or did you scan it, because I did state what you all are riding me over?

Whatever,

Apex

spwolf

<droools over SMG2>

Actually, BMW reduced the pricing on it as well, it used to be $7k option, now it is around $2.5k option on M3... now if I really had money, thats what I would get ;-)

spwolf

apex: dont take it personally ;-)... and yeah, its not a button, its a paddle ;-))))))))))))))