KeithL

SUV's are marketed by the car companies as masculine / sexy alternatives to the minivan and station wagon. If ppl like to drive them, fine, but, spare me the whining when gas goes over $3 a gallon. Same goes for the RX-8. If you can't aford to put gas in it, you shouldn't be driving it.

What grabbed me about the '8 is it's so damn fun to drive.

Yeah, there's plenty of cars >$50K (or $100K for that matter - what the hell!) out there that I'd love to have/drive, but I'm not gonna spend that much on a car (even if I could afford it). In terms of enjoyment for the $$, the RX-8 is a winner in my book

Go with what you like. If it's a car that's a pleasure to drive - great. If it's a status symbol you feel you have to be seen in - fine - whatever blows your hair back. Not my cup of tea.

cornrowdpantha

I believe life existed before the advent of the in car DVD player, and I can imagine the effectiveness. Except, in my experience this was achieved with an entirely different tool:

The belt (or the switch for some of you old heads...)

The problem with children these days is that they have no discipline, and we'd rather placate (sp?) them rather than instill discipline. This is why classroom behavior is so attrocious, no discipline + no tv = children outta control...

Sorry for the off topic post...

9291150

You’re fine Bascho, even though you swapped cars I have yet to see you hate’n on the RX8. But I will dispute some of your arguments.

Most here aren’t saying that the rotary is better than a piston engine, just refreshingly different. Different in it’s inherent smoothness, completely linear power delivery, and revvy nature. If these things are meaningful to you, as they are to me, then you’re freak’n happy. I always hated the feel / noise /vibration of a highly stressed engine, always makes me feel that I’m doing something I shouldn’t, that it’s about to blow. The rotary always had a “you wanna play?” nature rather than a “oh no, you’re gonna thrash me again” feel. Yes, feel is subjective, but feel is what makes a car enjoyable, kinda like fake ***** vs. real….fake may look best on paper, but what do you most prefer bouncing off your face???

Now if you don’t care about the traits of a rotary, than it’s a thirsty, high maintenance and low torque piece of ****.

And while I’ve owned piston bikes that rev up to 14000rpm, its apples to oranges. Longevity, engine loads, emissions, noise restrictions, power delivery, etc…. too different to compare. But high-end sportbike engines have a similar “you wanna play?” feel to a rotary, but they really are true race engines. You won’t find that in mainstream cars anytime soon.

As for the car itself, you have a car that can fit 4 people comfortably that is no larger than a Porsche 911. A RWD 4 door that weights under 3000 pounds. Thats all something. And a car that has rear doors without looking like *****…as per your Saturn. And a car that currently costs so little yet can handle and brake as well as anything on the market.

So yeah, its an amazing car, even to those of us that aren’t idiots.

dynamho

Amen.
I would even go so far as to say "refreshingly unique" if I may. Long live the RX series!

otherside

jaguargod? Poorly engineered? Jaguar is synonymous with poor engineering...

dynamho

Is this true? I thought Jaguars had quality issues, which I understand can be independent of engineering.

Ike

We're not talking about juvenille delinquents here... I don't know of many children under the age of 5 that don't get fussy during a long car ride.

ezrider55

The last car that I loved to wash and wax myself was my RX 2. I didn't mind the fact that it had two distributers each of which had points that had to be replaced every 5000 mi. So it has been 30 years since I had a car I loved almost as much as I love my RX 8.

DOMINION

^You know every car I had befor the 8 sucked. Then I found the 8 and it was love

flomulgator

Bascho, please read my long post on page 4. In that (pre)counterpoint is my anti-anti-SUV argument.

bascho

Yes you defended SUV's......but in a backhanded way. You gave examples of harsh conditions which warrant the use of SUV's.......but they're many other more mundane reasons as well. No auto company currently builds a large station wagon anymore......and SUV's are the only thing big enough to carry multiple children in car seats as well as strollers, toys and the multiple bags used to carry all of **** they need to have on a daily basis. Sure, you could argue mini-vans.....but space is not the only reason for SUV's. How about a family that pulls a camper or a boat........or how about us in the Northern states that get something called snow. Don't bullshit me about how FWD being just as good as 4WD trucks and SUV's in the snow. I've lived my entire life split between Minnesota and Michigan and have driven both vehicle types for 15 years......I would take an SUV in the winter any day of the week.

bascho

Like I said.....I like the RX8 and find very few reasons why anyone wouldn't......but they're great things to be said about any car......so what's the point? The rotary loves to rev and has smooth power delivery........but it's not the only engine with those attributes. Is it different than a piston engine? Sure......but there are huge differences between each piston engine as well. OHC engines are different than OHV, horizontally opposed is different from V-block and now W-blocks, flatheads are different from DOHC.

I don't mind people loving the rotary engine for it's design....but thinking that design is superior to others just ridiculous. I understand this is a RX8 forum....so love up the RX8 all you want......but don't make warrantless claims about other cars to make you feel better about yours. If you truly love the RX8 then you have no reason to bash anything else. Insecurity breeds contempt....be secure with your purchase

Raevik

SUVs have their place and ROUTINELY get thrashed by tree-hugging hippies that cry about economy while completely ignoring:

1) The "U" in SUV stands for utility...as in, it has uses. Hauling. Carrying kids, strollers, carriers, diaper bags, home depot materials, etc. So what if you saw a guy driving a large vehicle one day on the road with only the driver in it. Does that mean he/she didn't haul 2000lbs of bricks that weekend? How the hell do you know?

2) Sports cars get similar gas milage as the SUVs and normally sacrifice all the "U" in SUV. Nobody is on TV whining about the large displacement gas guzzling sports cars.

3) Most small SUVs match average sedans for gas milage now. Low to mid 20's in the city, mid to high 20's (some even 30) on the highway. Nobody talks about this...only the Excursion (which if I'm not mistaken, isn't even manufactured anymore).


If you're so obsessed with SUVs that seeing them on the road actually makes you angry, you need to calm the hell down and get a hobby. People have always needed storage capacity on the road for the last 50+ years. They used to have huge block station wagons that also got crap mileage. All they did was stylize the model they delivered the solution in.

dreamfrog

haha! Who cares about all of that? No one ever said that this forum was based on FACT. Yes, some speak facts, but mostly, they don't.
Every day SUV drivers prove to me that they should be required to get a CDL license to be able to drive that damn thing. I have near been run over by them enough times to say I hate them, will always hate them & you can't change my mind nyah nyah nyah.
All intended in fun, of course!
They're there, I deal with them. I just wish there weren't so dang many of them. When I ride down the road, there are more SUV's than anything else. And, I live in Florida! No snow here, just moms with too many kids & crap, that CAN'T drive!!

9291150

I like hot chicks, don't like ugly chicks much, though I'm sure they have their qualities. So if I were to convey this, say on a site that talks about chicks, would it mean that I really secretly prefer ugly chicks???

But to clarify...yes there are piston engines that have as much or more character than a rotary i.e. air cooled flat six Porsche engines. And there are engines that are as linear in their power delivery i.e. many American V8's. Far fewer car engines rev as quickly, even fewer are lighter or more compact, and none rev as high, although early S2000's come close. And in my experience, having tried everything from 14000rpm sportbikes to flat 12 Ferrari engines, none feel as smooth or unstressed at WOT. These things are inherent characteristics of the rotary.

So what's your point again?

flomulgator

Bascho, first the snow,
I drove a tuned FWD VW GTI w/ LSD and 4 studded snow tires then when they developed them 4 studless snow tires. My lower center of gravity and reduced weight allowed me to go faster and safer up ski roads then the SUV's that I was passing. In reality I had just as many drive wheels because the LSD allowed 2 wheels to be utilized, just like a traditional 4wd system that allows 1 front and 1 rear drive wheel through a central LSD. Granted some modern SUV's are getting a lot better about this and including rear differentials (3 tires) or occassionally F, C, & R allowing all 4 tires grip (like Land rover has always done.) Vehicles that most notable come to mind in teh 3 wheel department are the FJ cruiser, the Xterra, and the H2 & H3. These would legitimately have more snow traction than my small hatchback but still the high center of gravity issue.

As for station wagons.......Dodge Magnum, Volvo's (AWD), Audi A6 Avant (Quattro, a true 4 wheel system) BMW 5 (AWD), Mercedes, Chevy Malibu Maxx, and I think a lexus. Many of these have longer wheelbases and more interior room than many SUV's while getting better fuel economy, better road performance and better snow driving performance. What they DO lack is ground clearance and, most importantly, that upright Captains Chair seating posture that people enjoy so much. In my mind anyone who takes their vehicle off the pavement & well maintained gravel at any point has a legitmate claim to owning an SUV or even a crossover, but many many people don't, as is apparent by the abundance of 2WD SUV's.

My main point was that sports cars are used on the road where they were meant to be, but SUV's aren't used in the dirt, where they were meant to be.

dynamho

I agree with the gist of what flomulgator wrote. SUV's cargo capacities are overrated IMO. Station wagons have just as much, if not more capacity. Too bad the SUV-centric market has made them comparatively rare. I think the Forester is one of the most capable SUV substitutes ever made.

SoFL_RX8

You would swear people cant read the big friggn sticker in the window of the car at the dealership that says "18mpg city/ 24mpg highway"
Every single one of us was aware of the milage when we bought the car... if you have a problem with it, then you shouldnt have bought it. But since you did, why dont you just bite the bullet and enjoy the car for what its worth rather than trying to justify your 'bad decision' by endlessly trying to point out the cars few downfalls.
Sounds to me like a bunch of yall didnt do your homework, and got stuck with a car you dont WANT to afford, and are now bitching and moaning about it. Take some responsibilty for your actions, you did buy the car.

Detrich

we don't hate the 8... just the rock chips.

DOMINION

^Ditto that!!!

Raevik

I assure you, people aren't upset because they're getting 18/24 and didn't expect it.

They're upset because they expected 18/24 and get 15/20.

bascho

Not one of the wagons you mentioned has the same cargo capacity of either the Expedition or the Explorer. When I say cargo capacity I am not just talking about total cu ft.......I am talking about the height and width of the area. Wagons can increase the total area of their shorter, narrower area with length.

I am not saying ALL SUV's have good cargo capacity....but the best in class ones do. When I mention taking a 4WD SUV over any FWD/AWD car.....I am talking about a modern SUV. Ground clearance alone helps with the snow here in MI where a VW would be stuck. Have you seen that VW commercial for their SUV. They start out by trying to drive a Jetta over the plow hill at the end of the driveway and get stuck at the top. Then they take the VW SUV over the plow hill to show why SUV's are superior in those conditions. I am not saying a FWD/AWD car is not good in the snow.....I am saying, given the choice, I would choose an SUV over a FWD/AWD car in the Northern winter. Not to mention most SUV's come equipped from the factory with A/T tires and you're mentioning AWD cars with an added investment of over a thousand dollars in special snow tires.


Who said SUV's are meant to be in the dirt? You keep making the assumption that dirt is the only reason for 4WD. How about pulling your boat out of the water? Have you seen RWD or FWD vehicles try this? How about pulling a tree stump from your yard? How about snow that seems to fall on paved roads accumulating to depths of several inches and sometimes feet? SUV's have many practical on-road purposes and there is a need for them in this country. I can honestly say that there is more of a need for SUV's than sports cars like the RX8. How often do you HAVE TO corner at 60mph in 30mph zone?

SoFL_RX8

If people can afford themselves a $30k sports car but arent willing to fork up an extra 2-3mpg in gas bills they shouldnt be buying a sports car... lemme say that again, ITS A SPORTS CAR. For everything else this car does, and goes above and beyond, its owners should be able to suck it up and deal with an extra 6$ a week in gas.
Im tierd of people complaining about issue that they should have known about BEFORE they bought the car. Like I said, own up to your responsibilty... Mazda did not make a bad car, you made a bad decision to buy it without being WILLING to afford the costs involved.

flomulgator

EVERY DAY

I will concede about the interior dimensions. I own a 91 suburban back from the boxy days and when they went to the newer, curvier style it killed a bit of the utility. As for the boat thing, my girl's parents have a 22' monster that they pull out w/o putting it in 4, albiet w/ a suburban. I'm guessing what you are alluding to is 4L, which as you may be aware is becoming an increasingly scarce gear ratio, especially in crossovers. Does anyone know if the CX-7 has 4L? Deep snow? I was in Traverse City last February and there was like 5" total. I hear they can get a lot more though....and my friends who went to MI Tech up in the UP back in college say the UP gets tons o snow. Where in MI do you live? But if you look at a map of MI, all the big cities are in the south, where big dumps are rare. $1000 on snow tires? maybe on the RX-8 w/ 18"s AT standard on SUV's? Uh, no. SUV's come w/ shitty All-seasons just like most wagons these days, because they are cheap and they get the best possible gas mileage due to their hard compound.

I think its funny that you bash the 8 but own one and I bash the SUV but own one. At least we have our principles!!

dynamho

How many people who own SUVs have boats to tow? Stumps to pull? If I need a stump pulled, I hire a contractor, which I find cheaper than owning an SUV. I admit that there are legitimate uses for them, but not in the plague proportions seen on the road today.