zoomed

I bought mine about a month ago, expecting that Mazda came clean this time, rating the horsepower at 238. However, after experiencing the car and reading all the threads on dyno tests, etc., the real horsepower number is probably around 210.

Everyone seems resigned to this, and many are spending $$ upgrading exhausts, intakes and ECU's, trying to get the horsepower back. Others say the car is worth it anyway, since the car handles so well, etc.

However, in my mind, we ought to be going after Mazda. Fool us once, ok; fool us twice, its time to ante up. It would seem that this forum might be a good way to inform Mazda that we are not happy and not going to just look the other way. Comments?

fxdsconv2000

I'm getting so tired of this!!!!

You test drove your car right? You enjoyed it right? Thats why you bought it right?
Next time have the dealer put the car you want on a dyno then make up your mind if you want to buy it!!!

IMO the only people that have the right to bitch about the horsepower are the ones that pre-ordered thier cars and got them without the test drive. Hell Mazda offered to buy back those cars.

Get over the horsepower issue already!! If you don't like it don't buy it!! Nobody forced you.

just my .02

BIU

238 is at the crank...........

210 or whatever number ppl on dynos come up with is at the WHEELS..........


Horsepower provided by Auto companies are ALWAYS at the CRANK........

Winning_BlueRX8

Amen brotha.

stauburn

I couldn't agree more with fxdsconv2000.......

I bought my car for the pleasure I get from driving it and the way it looks.

We all could of gotten faster cars for less money if we wanted to .

So if you are unhappy with the car's performance issues trade it in for something that suits you best.

Inconsequential

Exactly... either you love it... or you dont, frankly, the test drive sold me completely, even if it is less hp than and sti or an evo... its style, class, and speed all in one... who can ask for more in a 4 door... hehe

fxdsconv2000

I just posted in the RX-8 Discussion about this hopefully the mods will make it sticky and the Newbies will read it before they post complaints about horsepower. It's basicaly what I said above.

rx-7~rx-8

fxdsconv2000... you the man... i agree with you ... i test drove the auto rx-8 (16 yr old) we didn't buy it thought.. YET... but i loved the car overall...

Thank you... you stopped the FLAME before it started..

Mike Ockstynee

they under rated it, it actually has 572 HP and gets 45 MPG.

Plays with Cars

Instead of being miffed at mazda (or any manufacturer) be miffed at our own government who forces the manufacturers to "perform" to ratings.

Why did Chrysler want the PT Cruiser to be considered a truck? To make their truck efficiency better.

I am sure people would love to toss their catalytic coverters out the window and indeed we do this in the aftermarket with our add ons(voiding warrenty as we go) and then expect the manufacturer to make good. The manufacturers gotta tow the line. (I have seen this beyond mazda).

Heres my opinion....Mazda had the guts to reintroduce the rotary which is as close to heaven as a REAL driver will ever hope to be. All the children who are only concerned with speed are like a teenage boy whose idea of sex is anything lasting more that 4 minutes. Slow down and enjoy the drive! You have been given a drivers car in the RX 8. First year bugs aside I am sick to death of the litegeous attitude of buyers...maybe manufacturers would be better not attempting to report at all. I don't have a dyno in my garage, don't need or want one. Enjoy the drive!

DemonRX-8

I test drove, I loved it, and I bought it. This was after the 238 hp restatement. But the fact is, Mazda DID lie about the hp a second time. You don't belive me? Show me a dyno run putting down 210, or hell, even 200 hp at the rear wheel. I truely believe the Mazda knew damn well that the car doesn't produce even the 238 hp that they restated. 238 just happened to be at the high end of the statistical average that they can claim without being subject to massive lawsuits. Basically, it was a very well calculated lie.

So, you can be happy with your car and all that and argue that it's a "grown up's" sports car. Fine, I buy that. I still love the car myself and wouldn't trade it in for a Z or anything else. BUT I don't live under the delusion that it produces 238 hp. Don't flame other people because they're willing to say it or they want Mazda to own up to their lie. They should.

zoomed

Well stated, Mr. DemonRX-8

PhineasFellOff

I don't think your HP figures are correct. The several dynos shown or mentioned on this forum are generally between 175 and 181 HP at the wheel.

People on this forum, when they account for possible drive-train losses- calculated backwards- have determined that the car can not possibly make 238 HP at the crank.

People like Canzoomer (would you question his knowledge?) estimate the HP at the crank to be more like 220.

PhineasFellOff

Your tiredness is misguided. Zoomed and Demon are absolutely and completely right, and there is no valid counter-argument.

Buying a car because you love the test-drive has no necessary connection with whether or not manufacturer stats are accurate or even close to accurate.

Nubo

Some thoughts in no particular order

1 - This car is plenty fast and powerful, as far as I'm concerned it's a rush. Plenty of power if you use the car the way it was designed. Now, I came from a Miata, so there's my comparison. Then again, I thought the Miata was a rush too

2 - Again, like the Miata it combines its high-rev style of power with wonderfully athletic handling. That's worth a lot of HP, imo. because it means you can use the HP you have, in the real world instead of a drag strip.

3 - It seems obvious that the standard for HP disclosure should be AT THE WHEELS, since that's the HP available to the driver. Crank HP doesn't help much unless you're planning on putting the engine into a Piper Tomahawk or something.

4 - Independent sources are available regarding performance: Car magazines, etc. Any new buyers should have a pretty good idea of the relative performance vs. competitors.

rotarygod

Here's my valid counter argument. I don't care if I take flak for this (I need a good laugh!) but when you crybabies take your damn engines out, stick them on an engine dyno complete with factory ecu and test it EXACTLY the way Mazda did in Japan and don't get 238 hp, then I'll feel sympathy for you. Chassis dynos are guidelines. There is such a wide variation between dyno results on here, I don't know why you guys believe ANY of them. You bought the car for the complete package not for a number. This fits in with the people who complain about poor gas mileage when it is printed on the sheet in the window. If you bought it solely for 238 hp then you made a big mistake. It still hits all of Mazda's performance numbers. It's funny that so many people believe the false exagerrated claims that many aftermarket companies spread about their products yet they feel that the car manufacturer is wrong. Sometimes logic just doesn't apply.

Why don't the Mercedes E55 people ever cry about their cars being underrated? How about the LS1 owners out there? Isn't it still a lie regardless of if it is higher or lower? God damn double standards!

It says alot about a person to call a company a liar and then still willingly buy their product.

Gord96BRG

You go right ahead. First, of course, you need proof. As mentioned, pull your engine (and cooling system, exhaust system, and wiring harness), and set it up on an engine dyno and run the tests as exact duplicates of the rating tests. When you get scientifically valid duplicates of the tests with statistically relevant data on the SAE Net HP, then by all means file your lawsuit.

Let us know how it goes. Until then... just drive the damn sports car and enjoy it! It's not a drag racer - have you noticed how the RX-8 keeps winning comparison tests against more powerful cars? There's a reason - it's because HP ratings are not the be-all measure of a car. Go read those comparison tests again.

Regards,
Gordon

cueball

Please do a search before you post.
This issue has been discussed in probably over fifty threads.

Duplicate thread.

Closed.