HELP Rx-8 04 or Civic si 06
04-25-2006, 10:57 PM
#227
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Originally Posted by StealthFox
if you think a 5-6k typical mark up plus 21k base price equals a good price then you're crazy, 27k for a civic? it's not even a Type-R for christ's sake, you can get an RSX Type-S that's loaded with leather, the same engine, more style, and better looks. plus the integra has always been the "sportier" version of the civic and is just a better buy for the money.
Also, by most accounts the SI is a better car than the RSX Type-S, handles better is just as fast, and overall has a better/sportier feel.
04-25-2006, 11:40 PM
#229
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Originally Posted by PhotoMunkey
Ike, I apologize to you. I've been lumping your posts and "sti_eric"'s posts in the same category, when, in fact, they are not. I have been responding to your posts as if you were someone else and completely mistook what you wanted to prove.
While I can't prove my theory that CA and AZ dealers are demanding premiums for the EVO IX and WRX STI, based on Edmund's "True Market Value" for the STI, I conclude that they are, at least in CA, based on m zip code, for the STI.
I still think that the Evo IX and new 06 WRX STI both have very limited market appeal based on their looks, and not their performance. The fact is, both cars are "halo" vehicles for two very small Japanese car companies, and as such, their sales numbers appear to be not an item that either company chooses to disclose. My best guess is that, despite their claim of being "hot", neither car sells well enough to earn significant bragging rights. Certainly not when their target rice-racer market includes people who opt for the Civic SI for thousands of dollars less.
Mitsubishi, in particular, is in the midst of struggling to turn around its declining world and US sales, and is publishing only numbers which are skewed to indicate that the company is now on the rise again. This is, again, purely conjecture, but based on my reading of Mitsu's own, stockholder-bolstering monthly sales reports. Subaru apparently is far healthier as its core models appeal to mainstream-US soccer moms/families seeking safety and convenience.
Dealers in AZ and CA routinely post addendum stickers on EVERY car, regardless of the brand or model as they have deemed it to be a "market premium". This can even be observed in Yuma, AZ. I agree that paying MSRP is silly, and paying over MSRP is borderline criminal, but if the dealer is willing to refuse a sale to a customer because they know the next one MIGHT pay their "premium", that is the dealer's right. The Pontiac dealer in my hometown refuses to sell me a Solstice for GMS (GM Employee price) which I'm entitled to, even though they would receive a healty kick-back from corporate for doing so.
On my next trip to the "city", slated for the beginning of May, I'll photograph a few "market premium addendums" and post them for the board to see. I'll even see what Southcoast has posted on their cars.
While I can't prove my theory that CA and AZ dealers are demanding premiums for the EVO IX and WRX STI, based on Edmund's "True Market Value" for the STI, I conclude that they are, at least in CA, based on m zip code, for the STI.
I still think that the Evo IX and new 06 WRX STI both have very limited market appeal based on their looks, and not their performance. The fact is, both cars are "halo" vehicles for two very small Japanese car companies, and as such, their sales numbers appear to be not an item that either company chooses to disclose. My best guess is that, despite their claim of being "hot", neither car sells well enough to earn significant bragging rights. Certainly not when their target rice-racer market includes people who opt for the Civic SI for thousands of dollars less.
Mitsubishi, in particular, is in the midst of struggling to turn around its declining world and US sales, and is publishing only numbers which are skewed to indicate that the company is now on the rise again. This is, again, purely conjecture, but based on my reading of Mitsu's own, stockholder-bolstering monthly sales reports. Subaru apparently is far healthier as its core models appeal to mainstream-US soccer moms/families seeking safety and convenience.
Dealers in AZ and CA routinely post addendum stickers on EVERY car, regardless of the brand or model as they have deemed it to be a "market premium". This can even be observed in Yuma, AZ. I agree that paying MSRP is silly, and paying over MSRP is borderline criminal, but if the dealer is willing to refuse a sale to a customer because they know the next one MIGHT pay their "premium", that is the dealer's right. The Pontiac dealer in my hometown refuses to sell me a Solstice for GMS (GM Employee price) which I'm entitled to, even though they would receive a healty kick-back from corporate for doing so.
On my next trip to the "city", slated for the beginning of May, I'll photograph a few "market premium addendums" and post them for the board to see. I'll even see what Southcoast has posted on their cars.
You keep using Edmunds TMV to make your point, Edmund's gets stuff wrong quite regularly. Change the Zip Code in their TMV calculator and you'll see that no matter where you buy either the STI or Evo the TMV remains the same. They're not compiling any data, they're just throwing a number on there and using it for every area of the country.
You're right that the Evo and STI have a limited market, I've never said otherwise. I'll go a step further and say that the market for the Evo is even more limited than the STI. However, the market is not soft for the Evo. Mitsubishi knows how many Evos they are going to make, they send them to dealers, and they have nearly sold out every previous MY car before the new MY hits lots.
As for the addendums you're seeing, no need for pics, they do that all over the country. A local Mazda dealer has a $1995 markup called an "Evironmental Package" on almost all their cars. Yup, all eighteen 2005 RX-8s, five of their Mazdaspeed 6s, and even previous gen Miatas. Do they get some sucker to pay them every now and then, probably, could I go down there and get an '05 RX-8 for 7-8k off of MSRP, I bet you I could.
The Solstice and the Sky, they are probably the two hottest cars on the market right now. That is a car that I would be shocked if anyone is getting for less than $500 or so off MSRP, and I'm sure many people are paying over MSRP. That'll end soon enough, but for now demand is greater than the supply which isn't the case with the Evo and STI where supply equals demand. With the STI and Evo, if one dealer won't deal, the guy the next town over will.
04-26-2006, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by PhotoMunkey
While I can't prove my theory that CA and AZ dealers are demanding premiums for the EVO IX and WRX STI, based on Edmund's "True Market Value" for the STI, I conclude that they are, at least in CA, based on m zip code, for the STI.
Last time I was out at Boeing Long Beach I stopped at the Subaru dealer on Cherry Ave near the LB airport. No markups on STis there. I'll probably be out there again within the next month or two, so I can recheck.
Originally Posted by PhotoMunkey
<Sigh> Could it be because, for every STI blown out the door by Van Bortel, there is an equal number of cars sold for OVER MSRP by other dealers in New York who MUST hold out for more money because they DON'T sell as many STIs as VB does?
04-26-2006, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ike
I clearly proved that at 3 different dealers in So Cal (one of them close to AZ.) you can get an Evo IX for well under MSRP.
Originally Posted by sti_eric
Last time I was out at Boeing Long Beach...
If Edmunds is wrong, and simply pulls a figure out of their collective asses, then what can I say? I can't find any other info on the web either for or against, and I'm not paying for a NADA new car deliveries report. In truth, if I can get a great deal on an RX-8, I could care less what STIs and EVOs are selling for, either in CA or AZ or NY.
Got to go put a Ford Racing Torsen in my Mustang now...
04-26-2006, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by PhotoMunkey
You do realize that none of the dealerships you pointed out are even remotely close to AZ, don't you?
I just photographed RMR Product's GTO Twin Turbo in Boeing's long driveway last month.
If Edmunds is wrong, and simply pulls a figure out of their collective asses, then what can I say? I can't find any other info on the web either for or against, and I'm not paying for a NADA new car deliveries report. In truth, if I can get a great deal on an RX-8, I could care less what STIs and EVOs are selling for, either in CA or AZ or NY.
Got to go put a Ford Racing Torsen in my Mustang now...
I just photographed RMR Product's GTO Twin Turbo in Boeing's long driveway last month.
If Edmunds is wrong, and simply pulls a figure out of their collective asses, then what can I say? I can't find any other info on the web either for or against, and I'm not paying for a NADA new car deliveries report. In truth, if I can get a great deal on an RX-8, I could care less what STIs and EVOs are selling for, either in CA or AZ or NY.
Got to go put a Ford Racing Torsen in my Mustang now...
If you want to find your info just go ask the owners.
04-29-2006, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SHINKA II
WOW! I didn't know that this forum can be this entertaining! 
Thank you guys for the 10mins of non-stop laughter. 
Thank you guys for the 10mins of non-stop laughter. 
04-29-2006, 11:42 AM
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They are all in different class. Can't really compare them.
Family Car: Mazda 6, Toyota Camry, etc
Sport Car: NSX, RX8, etc
Performance Car: STi, Evo IX, etc
Exotic Car: Enzo, Zonda, etc
Prestigous Car: Rolls Royce, Bentley, etc
Family Car: Mazda 6, Toyota Camry, etc
Sport Car: NSX, RX8, etc
Performance Car: STi, Evo IX, etc
Exotic Car: Enzo, Zonda, etc
Prestigous Car: Rolls Royce, Bentley, etc
04-29-2006, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RotoRocket
Can you imagine pulling up to a business meeting in this?
Then again you still probably wear bad double breasted power suits to your business meetings...
04-29-2006, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RotoRocket
Can you imagine pulling up to a business meeting in this?
04-29-2006, 05:58 PM
#242
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Stop the insanity!
I wish, oh so wish, that people would stop comparing our cars in ways that are not measurable. Like looks, that is far too relative. There are people who love and hate the looks of every car, Let's compare facts people, FACTOIDS!!!
So you bought a car that is slower than a TURBOCHARGED evo and sti, big deal, who honestly cares that much? I like the car I bought for various reasons, not for some 1/4 mile time on a sheet of paper.
For the love of edward johanson, please stop the fighting over material objects!
I'd drive the car up there, needs a wing IMO.
I wish, oh so wish, that people would stop comparing our cars in ways that are not measurable. Like looks, that is far too relative. There are people who love and hate the looks of every car, Let's compare facts people, FACTOIDS!!!
So you bought a car that is slower than a TURBOCHARGED evo and sti, big deal, who honestly cares that much? I like the car I bought for various reasons, not for some 1/4 mile time on a sheet of paper.
For the love of edward johanson, please stop the fighting over material objects!
I'd drive the car up there, needs a wing IMO.
04-29-2006, 06:30 PM
#243
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Originally Posted by prescriptionmazda
Stop the insanity!
I wish, oh so wish, that people would stop comparing our cars in ways that are not measurable. Like looks, that is far too relative. There are people who love and hate the looks of every car, Let's compare facts people, FACTOIDS!!!
So you bought a car that is slower than a TURBOCHARGED evo and sti, big deal, who honestly cares that much? I like the car I bought for various reasons, not for some 1/4 mile time on a sheet of paper.
For the love of edward johanson, please stop the fighting over material objects!
I'd drive the car up there, needs a wing IMO.
I wish, oh so wish, that people would stop comparing our cars in ways that are not measurable. Like looks, that is far too relative. There are people who love and hate the looks of every car, Let's compare facts people, FACTOIDS!!!
So you bought a car that is slower than a TURBOCHARGED evo and sti, big deal, who honestly cares that much? I like the car I bought for various reasons, not for some 1/4 mile time on a sheet of paper.
For the love of edward johanson, please stop the fighting over material objects!
I'd drive the car up there, needs a wing IMO.
Besides that, it is the intagible qualities of these material objects that make them so special. You don't want to compare numbers, that just ruins the spirit of the product and that just leads to book-racing. Geez...people aren't just merely statistics and cars are far more than just specifications and performance results. The fact of the matter is that facts lie. You're better off watching the Grand Am series and taking notes.
Most of these cars are far too different in nature to be reasonably compared. You can compare the EVO to the STI all day long or the Vette to the Viper, Mustang to the Camaro...these cars have been designed to compete against one of another. Most of the time...well ****...the RX8 is just so different comparing it to anything else, it's is just a waste of time.
05-14-2006, 01:58 AM
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ahhh i originally posted this awhile back n it has 17 pages LOL .... ne ways i been having my civic for about 1 month(edited) heres some pics
http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.ph...19&an=0&page=0
http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.ph...19&an=0&page=0
Last edited by piNNoy; 05-14-2006 at 10:39 AM.
05-14-2006, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by piNNoy
ahhh i originally posted this awhile back n it has 17 pages LOL .... ne ways i been having my civic for about 2 months heres some pics
http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.ph...19&an=0&page=0
http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.ph...19&an=0&page=0
P.S. Your post here is less than a month old...
05-14-2006, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by prescriptionmazda
Stop the insanity!
I wish, oh so wish, that people would stop comparing our cars in ways that are not measurable. Like looks, that is far too relative. There are people who love and hate the looks of every car, Let's compare facts people, FACTOIDS!!!
So you bought a car that is slower than a TURBOCHARGED evo and sti, big deal, who honestly cares that much? I like the car I bought for various reasons, not for some 1/4 mile time on a sheet of paper.
For the love of edward johanson, please stop the fighting over material objects!
I'd drive the car up there, needs a wing IMO.
I wish, oh so wish, that people would stop comparing our cars in ways that are not measurable. Like looks, that is far too relative. There are people who love and hate the looks of every car, Let's compare facts people, FACTOIDS!!!
So you bought a car that is slower than a TURBOCHARGED evo and sti, big deal, who honestly cares that much? I like the car I bought for various reasons, not for some 1/4 mile time on a sheet of paper.
For the love of edward johanson, please stop the fighting over material objects!
I'd drive the car up there, needs a wing IMO.
05-14-2006, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sti_eric
...a little Vietnamese woman in her 40s, was just giddy over my car. She kept asking me all sorts of questions about it.