HELP Rx-8 04 or Civic si 06
04-21-2006, 12:31 PM
#126
i pwn therefore i am
This thread is just sad. I don't understand why people make these long elaborate posts that aren't especially well written grammatically or logically to "defend" the 8 against NO ONE. Do you guys even read Ike's post anymore or do you just see the bananas and immediately start typing "the 8 pwns in the twisties!!11!"?
If you can't look at a Civic Si and see it for what it offers and what it doesn't offer you're either kidding yourself or just not that bright. Figure out what matters to you, figure out what car fits you best, and drive. Giving your perspective on a car is one thing, but making statements like "the 8 is the best car ever for fun to cost ratio" is so ridiculously subjective and narrow-minded it actually makes me sad.
Then again, I wouldn't hang around this place if I didn't enjoy the dysfunctional relationships we all have with each other.
If you can't look at a Civic Si and see it for what it offers and what it doesn't offer you're either kidding yourself or just not that bright. Figure out what matters to you, figure out what car fits you best, and drive. Giving your perspective on a car is one thing, but making statements like "the 8 is the best car ever for fun to cost ratio" is so ridiculously subjective and narrow-minded it actually makes me sad.
Then again, I wouldn't hang around this place if I didn't enjoy the dysfunctional relationships we all have with each other.
04-21-2006, 12:34 PM
#127
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Originally Posted by PhotoMunkey
FACT: In Grand AM ST-class racing, the last two years' championships have been OWNED by the Speedsource Mazda RX-8 team. Look up the series, look at the BMW teams, the Acura teams, the Dodge teams, etc... and LAUGH!
FACT: Its very impressive to win the ST class, not taking anything away from the Speedsource team.
Originally Posted by PhotoMunkey
FACT: The RX-8 was engineered by good people at Mazda who were told they could produce a sports car ONLY if they kept the cost down, as Ford didn't want them playing with the high-dollar boys. There is NOTHING in the market for the same cost as the RX-8, or even several THOUSAND DOLLARS higher which will post the OVERALL performance numbers.
There are other cars too that are better OVERALL performers like wrx.
FACT since you are talking about "in the market" where RX8 can go as low as 8000 under MSRP, while you are lucky if you can get 2000 under MSRP for 350Z, your claim still stands when talking about realistic market transaction prices.
Originally Posted by PhotoMunkey
FACT: Their gas mileage is, as an average, even WORSE than an RX-8 (www.edmunds.com if you don't believe me).
, check g35driver and my350z, they are mostly averaging 19+ all city. its really bad and rare if someone is getting 17 or lower. OPPINION: The better performer is not necessarily the better car. RX8 might not be up to par in OVERALL PERFORMANCE to other cars that are in its MSRP price range. For a lot of people in this price range, performance isnt everthing. Theres plenty of things rx8 does better than its competitors such as its luxurious interior, suicide doors, back seats, much cheaper real world transaction price etc. Its a better daily driver than most of its competitors. Thats why RX-8 won the head to head comparisons from Motortrend and C&D etc. People buy their cars because of their individual set of needs and taste, RX8 is not gods gift for men, nor is any other car.
04-21-2006, 12:37 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by saturn
This thread is just sad. I don't understand why people make these long elaborate posts that aren't especially well written grammatically or logically to "defend" the 8 against NO ONE. Do you guys even read Ike's post anymore or do you just see the bananas and immediately start typing "the 8 pwns in the twisties!!11!"?
If you can't look at a Civic Si and see it for what it offers and what it doesn't offer you're either kidding yourself or just not that bright. Figure out what matters to you, figure out what car fits you best, and drive. Giving your perspective on a car is one thing, but making statements like "the 8 is the best car ever for fun to cost ratio" is so ridiculously subjective and narrow-minded it actually makes me sad.
Then again, I wouldn't hang around this place if I didn't enjoy the dysfunctional relationships we all have with each other.
If you can't look at a Civic Si and see it for what it offers and what it doesn't offer you're either kidding yourself or just not that bright. Figure out what matters to you, figure out what car fits you best, and drive. Giving your perspective on a car is one thing, but making statements like "the 8 is the best car ever for fun to cost ratio" is so ridiculously subjective and narrow-minded it actually makes me sad.
Then again, I wouldn't hang around this place if I didn't enjoy the dysfunctional relationships we all have with each other.
04-21-2006, 12:42 PM
#130
Originally Posted by saturn
Do you guys even read Ike's post anymore or do you just see the bananas and immediately start typing "the 8 pwns in the twisties!!11!"?
04-21-2006, 12:58 PM
#132
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Originally Posted by Fanman
Also a negative of the Civic is FWD. As a stock car this might be OK (even then you get torque steer), but once you start adding power it will really affect the handling of the FWD far more than RWD. Also I have seen several FWD crash at the track where if they were RWD it would not have happened. Stock for stock the handling numbers look good on paper for the SI, but in real world track/aggrssive driving I think the cars would be quite different.
04-21-2006, 01:11 PM
#133
All I can say about FWD is go drive a Type R. I used to detest FWD, I wouldn't even look. Drove the Type R on the streets, never thought much of it. Still detested FWD. >>Fast forward>>, drove the Type R on the track, HOLY CHRIST ON THE CROSS! Phenomenal. I am now trying to convince one of my good freinds to get it over the RSX-S she wants. It's a totally selfless suggestion too. Yup, completely selfless.
04-21-2006, 01:35 PM
#134
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Originally Posted by PhotoMunkey
I just HAVE to comment, though I doubt what I say will win hearts or sway minds... <sigh>
I test and photograph BMWs for a living. M3s on superchargers, lightweight E46 M3s, you name it. I've driven quite a few "fast" cars in anyone's book. I've driven new Porsche Boxsters on the track on equally-new Potenza RE-01R tires (the BF equivalent of the Yokohama Advan Neovas or Toyo RA-1s).
Going fast at a track is NOT about going fast in a straight line. Fact: FWD with an open differential does NOT put down power well in the corners. Fact: The RX-8 comes with a limited-slip, torque-sensing (TORSEN) differential for a reason. Fact: having nearly the same electric-motor feeling torque through the entire RPM band will make you MUCH faster than horsepower alone.
Porsche and BMW understand handling. They understand flat torque curves. They are damn near untouchable on a track, no matter how much money you've spent on your Honda, or how much weight you've had to remove from it to turn a similar lap time.
FACT: the RX-8 on STOCK Bridgestone RE-040 or Dunlop SP-8000 tires posts nearly identical slalom times to a Porsche Boxster, at 1/2 the price for the base 6MT. FACT: Lightweight, forged 18" wheels, a better suspension (springs, shocks, and anti-roll bars), and a set of Yokohama Advan Neovas or Bridgestone RE-01Rs will put you above .95g ona skid pad, and probably closer to .98. Depending on the weight of the wheels, you might even be quicker to 60 MPH and significantly faster through the 1/4 mile, if you care about such useless trivia. You WILL, however, be completely untouchable on a twisty road!
FACT: In Grand AM ST-class racing, the last two years' championships have been OWNED by the Speedsource Mazda RX-8 team. Look up the series, look at the BMW teams, the Acura teams, the Dodge teams, etc... and LAUGH!
FACT: The RX-8 was engineered by good people at Mazda who were told they could produce a sports car ONLY if they kept the cost down, as Ford didn't want them playing with the high-dollar boys. There is NOTHING in the market for the same cost as the RX-8, or even several THOUSAND DOLLARS higher which will post the OVERALL performance numbers.
FACT: A 350Z or G35 coupe does cost thousands more than an RX-8, even used, and while slightly faster in a straight line, WILL NOT HANDLE as well. Their gas mileage is, as an average, even WORSE than an RX-8 (www.edmunds.com if you don't believe me).
FACT: A Honda sips fuel. It's a corporate mind-set for them. Even the NSX and S2000 get great fuel economy. If Honda had offered the S2000 for a decent price, I'd consider that, but as it costs nearly $9k more, and has two less seats and a smaller trunk. 'Nuff said.
As for the Civic... Are you joking? The "fastest production Civic ever" can't break 6 seconds to 60? And that's in a STRAIGHT LINE! Putting the power down on corner exit is what going fast is all about. It even weighs 2877 lbs, or about 300 lbs less than an RX-8! Honda has repeatedly shortchanged the US market, preventing us from receiving its "good stuff" which it keeps at home. This reason alone would prevent me from buying the car, even before I looked at its "bland as a bar of soap" styling. Is it a good "sporty" car? Yes, possibly even the best in its class, before the arrival of the new GTI. Should it even be considered as the same TYPE of car as an RX-8? No.
Should an SRT-4 be considered? That's a factory hot-rodded Neon, so that's your own personal call. They're quick, but don't handle as well by a long shot. A poor man's Evo or WRX STi is how I view them. Great front seats, great tires (you have to realize that's how Dodge is getting to those performance numbers that the SRT-4 does have). On "normal" high-mileage performance tires, the SRT-4 would suck! The first time I opend and shut the door on and SRT-4 did it for me though. I can still hear that "clank"! Great engine and front seats, cheap EVERYTHING else!
I dare someone to call anything on the RX-8 "cheap" (aside from that wierd cupholder lid design!). How many "Japanese" cars are now truly made in Japan? Hmmm, the Evo, the WRX STI, the RX-8 and MX-5...., probably the S2000, but I haven't checked that for certain. Why? Labor cost? Why would anyone think that Mitsu's going out of business when they can assembly an Evo 8 on the same assembly line as the $17k base model Lancer? Last time I checked, that's $15k more for a de-contented interior, and a better engine, suspension, and brakes. Someone's making a killing... Same story at Subaru... Mazda is obviously NOT making a killing on the RX-8, but they do benefit when we buy GTs because of the up-options on the car, which earns them some more green.
Basically, the RX-8 represents the best-handling, best-performing sports car on the planet, viewed on a cost-per-fun basis. Stuff two friends in the back of a G35 and ask them the same question (or one "friend" in the hatch of a 350Z!). If you want/need to go faster than that, get an M3 for $50k and laugh as you blow by everyone on the road not driving a Z06 Vette, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Aston Martin, and Maserati.
If you want to go faster in your RX-8, start with forged wheels, add sticky tires, and at the least better anti-sway bars! Then, spouse willing, strip out every bit of the interior... Finally, if you're still married, sign up for a NASA HPDE event and start learning how to really drive!
Finally, to close... Winning an internet battle is like winning the Special Olympics... sure you get a medal, but you're still retarded! Doubly so if you think a Civic Si is a sports car!
I test and photograph BMWs for a living. M3s on superchargers, lightweight E46 M3s, you name it. I've driven quite a few "fast" cars in anyone's book. I've driven new Porsche Boxsters on the track on equally-new Potenza RE-01R tires (the BF equivalent of the Yokohama Advan Neovas or Toyo RA-1s).
Going fast at a track is NOT about going fast in a straight line. Fact: FWD with an open differential does NOT put down power well in the corners. Fact: The RX-8 comes with a limited-slip, torque-sensing (TORSEN) differential for a reason. Fact: having nearly the same electric-motor feeling torque through the entire RPM band will make you MUCH faster than horsepower alone.
Porsche and BMW understand handling. They understand flat torque curves. They are damn near untouchable on a track, no matter how much money you've spent on your Honda, or how much weight you've had to remove from it to turn a similar lap time.
FACT: the RX-8 on STOCK Bridgestone RE-040 or Dunlop SP-8000 tires posts nearly identical slalom times to a Porsche Boxster, at 1/2 the price for the base 6MT. FACT: Lightweight, forged 18" wheels, a better suspension (springs, shocks, and anti-roll bars), and a set of Yokohama Advan Neovas or Bridgestone RE-01Rs will put you above .95g ona skid pad, and probably closer to .98. Depending on the weight of the wheels, you might even be quicker to 60 MPH and significantly faster through the 1/4 mile, if you care about such useless trivia. You WILL, however, be completely untouchable on a twisty road!
FACT: In Grand AM ST-class racing, the last two years' championships have been OWNED by the Speedsource Mazda RX-8 team. Look up the series, look at the BMW teams, the Acura teams, the Dodge teams, etc... and LAUGH!
FACT: The RX-8 was engineered by good people at Mazda who were told they could produce a sports car ONLY if they kept the cost down, as Ford didn't want them playing with the high-dollar boys. There is NOTHING in the market for the same cost as the RX-8, or even several THOUSAND DOLLARS higher which will post the OVERALL performance numbers.
FACT: A 350Z or G35 coupe does cost thousands more than an RX-8, even used, and while slightly faster in a straight line, WILL NOT HANDLE as well. Their gas mileage is, as an average, even WORSE than an RX-8 (www.edmunds.com if you don't believe me).
FACT: A Honda sips fuel. It's a corporate mind-set for them. Even the NSX and S2000 get great fuel economy. If Honda had offered the S2000 for a decent price, I'd consider that, but as it costs nearly $9k more, and has two less seats and a smaller trunk. 'Nuff said.
As for the Civic... Are you joking? The "fastest production Civic ever" can't break 6 seconds to 60? And that's in a STRAIGHT LINE! Putting the power down on corner exit is what going fast is all about. It even weighs 2877 lbs, or about 300 lbs less than an RX-8! Honda has repeatedly shortchanged the US market, preventing us from receiving its "good stuff" which it keeps at home. This reason alone would prevent me from buying the car, even before I looked at its "bland as a bar of soap" styling. Is it a good "sporty" car? Yes, possibly even the best in its class, before the arrival of the new GTI. Should it even be considered as the same TYPE of car as an RX-8? No.
Should an SRT-4 be considered? That's a factory hot-rodded Neon, so that's your own personal call. They're quick, but don't handle as well by a long shot. A poor man's Evo or WRX STi is how I view them. Great front seats, great tires (you have to realize that's how Dodge is getting to those performance numbers that the SRT-4 does have). On "normal" high-mileage performance tires, the SRT-4 would suck! The first time I opend and shut the door on and SRT-4 did it for me though. I can still hear that "clank"! Great engine and front seats, cheap EVERYTHING else!
I dare someone to call anything on the RX-8 "cheap" (aside from that wierd cupholder lid design!). How many "Japanese" cars are now truly made in Japan? Hmmm, the Evo, the WRX STI, the RX-8 and MX-5...., probably the S2000, but I haven't checked that for certain. Why? Labor cost? Why would anyone think that Mitsu's going out of business when they can assembly an Evo 8 on the same assembly line as the $17k base model Lancer? Last time I checked, that's $15k more for a de-contented interior, and a better engine, suspension, and brakes. Someone's making a killing... Same story at Subaru... Mazda is obviously NOT making a killing on the RX-8, but they do benefit when we buy GTs because of the up-options on the car, which earns them some more green.
Basically, the RX-8 represents the best-handling, best-performing sports car on the planet, viewed on a cost-per-fun basis. Stuff two friends in the back of a G35 and ask them the same question (or one "friend" in the hatch of a 350Z!). If you want/need to go faster than that, get an M3 for $50k and laugh as you blow by everyone on the road not driving a Z06 Vette, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Aston Martin, and Maserati.
If you want to go faster in your RX-8, start with forged wheels, add sticky tires, and at the least better anti-sway bars! Then, spouse willing, strip out every bit of the interior... Finally, if you're still married, sign up for a NASA HPDE event and start learning how to really drive!
Finally, to close... Winning an internet battle is like winning the Special Olympics... sure you get a medal, but you're still retarded! Doubly so if you think a Civic Si is a sports car!
<applause> Best post I've seen in a while.
04-21-2006, 01:59 PM
#135
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
All I can say about FWD is go drive a Type R. I used to detest FWD, I wouldn't even look. Drove the Type R on the streets, never thought much of it. Still detested FWD. >>Fast forward>>, drove the Type R on the track, HOLY CHRIST ON THE CROSS! Phenomenal. I am now trying to convince one of my good freinds to get it over the RSX-S she wants. It's a totally selfless suggestion too. Yup, completely selfless.
I didn't have the Type R but I had a MSP and that thing rocked my socks!
04-21-2006, 02:54 PM
#136
Insanely Yellow
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
if you're capable of seperating the Rx8 from Mazda, it shouldn't be to far of a stretch to seperate the Civic Si from the Civic Dx.
Pointing out ONCE AGAIN - I like the Civic SI - it's a nice car! There's nothing wrong with it! It's $10,000 less than a similarly equipped RX-8.
The two also have as much in common as my 17 year poodle and a Greyhound. Yes, they both have four legs and are of the "canis" species, but ...
BlueEyes, you're in an RX-8 forum. Why in the helll does it surprise you that the people here like the car and given the choice between the two, would choose the RX-8 over the Civic SI, all things being equal (which they aren't)? Dude, what are you smoking?
OK, put myself if the shoes of the poor schumuck that originated this post thinking it would yield some quality information (silly you!).
It all comes down to money. For around $20K you can get a loaded up Civic Si that goes pretty quick, is damn fun to drive, etc. If that's all the money I had, this is a no brainer.
Or, for $23,000, I can get an RX-8 that's a comparative strippo car. If performance is all that matters to me at this point, I think I'm in for the RX-8. If more equipment and luxury are on my list of "must haves", then I need to upgrade to the GT, and now the price differential is closer to $10,000. If I can afford a $30,000 car, then that changes the entire picture of what I'm looking at.
And good old BlueEyes just for some reason, thinks the Civic Si is the bees knees and a serious sports car.
It's not! It's a seriously fun car to drive - no detracting from that, but I sure as hell would never do a track day in it. Maybe an autocross if I could put some real tires on it ... but it's a FUN car, not a sports car.
Good grief, this is stupid.
04-21-2006, 03:06 PM
#137
No, I don't think the Civic Si is the "bees knees", nor a sports car. But I can seperate it from a the rest of the civic range, and don't don't give a **** what my buddies at the raquet club think of my cars. You can't, and you do.
04-21-2006, 03:19 PM
#138
Insanely Yellow
Ok, whatever makes you feel good, blue. Truce.
Actually, all of my friends think I'm nuts for having this car, but they aren't a bunch of "dudeski" 20 somethings - they are all my age (40's with kids) and instead say:
1) How in the hell did you get that past the wife (from the driver of a volvo wagon). ANSWER: Easy - I told her I wanted it, and she said "Cool!" have fun." (I have the best wife in the world).
2) You could afford so much more car - why did you get this? You should have an M3 or a C55 AMG or something (this from my business partner). ANSWER: Once he drove it, he knew the answer - and he drives an M3 convertible. He actually likes my car better! Now, that said, I like his M3 better. But not more than 2x the price better!
3) My neighbors: "how's the midlife crisis going?" ANSWER: "Great! (as I load my new electric guitar into my trunk) By the way, wait till you meet my new girlfriend!"
4) The Prius driving guy down the street: "That car is so irresponsible" ANSWER: Well, you and your wife's matching Prius's cancel out my car, so net net, we're OK.
If you knew me, you'd know I could give a **** what other people think. (OK, yes, I did say "but dude, it's a Civic" ... we're dealing in hypotheticals here - I'm presuming the original author of the post is a 20-something young guy that this would make a difference to).
Actually, all of my friends think I'm nuts for having this car, but they aren't a bunch of "dudeski" 20 somethings - they are all my age (40's with kids) and instead say:
1) How in the hell did you get that past the wife (from the driver of a volvo wagon). ANSWER: Easy - I told her I wanted it, and she said "Cool!" have fun." (I have the best wife in the world).
2) You could afford so much more car - why did you get this? You should have an M3 or a C55 AMG or something (this from my business partner). ANSWER: Once he drove it, he knew the answer - and he drives an M3 convertible. He actually likes my car better! Now, that said, I like his M3 better. But not more than 2x the price better!
3) My neighbors: "how's the midlife crisis going?" ANSWER: "Great! (as I load my new electric guitar into my trunk) By the way, wait till you meet my new girlfriend!"
4) The Prius driving guy down the street: "That car is so irresponsible" ANSWER: Well, you and your wife's matching Prius's cancel out my car, so net net, we're OK.
If you knew me, you'd know I could give a **** what other people think. (OK, yes, I did say "but dude, it's a Civic" ... we're dealing in hypotheticals here - I'm presuming the original author of the post is a 20-something young guy that this would make a difference to).
04-21-2006, 03:46 PM
#140
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My finace and I got the RX8 (2005) over any other car base on the "status" aspect alone, I don't even care if the Civic Si will be faster or not compared to the RX8. Not that RX8 is an exotic prestigious car, but at least it is relatively more special than a Honda Civic. Tell others you have a RX8, they will continue to ask you question like what kind of motor is there, how many cylinders are there (funny when you tell them there is none), and how your doors operate. Tell other you have a Civic, they'll be like: "okay, nice little car".
I have a MR2Spyder personally for the same reason. Everyone else is interested to find out what kind of car it is. Civic will never provide such a "status" and generate so much conversation with other people.
I have a MR2Spyder personally for the same reason. Everyone else is interested to find out what kind of car it is. Civic will never provide such a "status" and generate so much conversation with other people.
04-21-2006, 04:04 PM
#141
I feel sorry for you. I'm glad I don't need to use a car to elevate my status and that I can base my purchases on more important factors.
Your status with me is now "lame". Congratulations.
Your status with me is now "lame". Congratulations.
04-21-2006, 04:08 PM
#142
Originally Posted by StewC625
Ok, whatever makes you feel good, blue. Truce.
04-21-2006, 04:29 PM
#143
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Originally Posted by piNNoy
those quacks, the reason RX-8's are so much work is because its a f*ck**g SPORTS CAR! look at the ferrari's, porche's, Lambo's they require so much work and so much effort to maintain because they are SPORTS CARS, not that i'm saying 8's and ferraris are in the same class, but they are in the same sport car group..... If you want an amazing machine, well your gonna have to take care of it..... Honda's a rice cars! no offense to any owners... Every Si driver i've met were asses trying to either race me or bash the 8....bottom line its your money and your car just don't trash other cars...
04-21-2006, 04:32 PM
#145
Insanely Yellow
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
Truce it is. Fajitas make me feel good, and as such, I am going to have fajitas for dinner. I suggest you do the same if this truce is to last.
Nope ... big ol fat burgers on the grill and a martini on my deck!
04-21-2006, 05:00 PM
#146
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
I feel sorry for you. I'm glad I don't need to use a car to elevate my status and that I can base my purchases on more important factors.
Your status with me is now "lame". Congratulations.
Your status with me is now "lame". Congratulations.
04-21-2006, 05:19 PM
#147
No skin off my back. Spend it how you want. But, as a car enthusiast, I can't think of a worse reason to buy a car than social status. Anybody who judges someones (or their own) character based on material possesions, is beyond sorry. Unfortunately, that's the way much of society is.
PS. Welcome to the triple-digits
PS. Welcome to the triple-digits
Last edited by BlueEyes; 04-21-2006 at 05:21 PM.
04-21-2006, 06:19 PM
#148
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Changing speeds a little bit, I am curious to know what RSX Type S owners think of the new Civic Si since they almost seem to be identically placed in the market. I also would think the last-gen Prelude should perform similar to the new Si. I can respect the Si for what it is because I used to drive Hondas all the time. But if I was looking at the Si, I would probably make sure to check out the new GTI, and also the upcoming Mazdaspeed 3. These are cars I feel are closer to the same than the RX8. Mainly due to the RWD and rotary engine, but I just feel the RX8 is not in the same category. And I feel it is just so much better looking.
Performance-wise, alot of cars will be much like the RX8 and Si under stock conditions and public driving conditions, which is what 95% of the population is buying for. So all this back-and-forth arguing seems pretty ridiculous. But I guess some people are really passionate.
Just remember how long 0.5 second is... in the grand scheme of things, it isn't jack.
Performance-wise, alot of cars will be much like the RX8 and Si under stock conditions and public driving conditions, which is what 95% of the population is buying for. So all this back-and-forth arguing seems pretty ridiculous. But I guess some people are really passionate.
Just remember how long 0.5 second is... in the grand scheme of things, it isn't jack.
04-21-2006, 06:32 PM
#149
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
All I can say about FWD is go drive a Type R. I used to detest FWD, I wouldn't even look. Drove the Type R on the streets, never thought much of it. Still detested FWD. >>Fast forward>>, drove the Type R on the track, HOLY CHRIST ON THE CROSS! Phenomenal. I am now trying to convince one of my good freinds to get it over the RSX-S she wants. It's a totally selfless suggestion too. Yup, completely selfless.
04-21-2006, 06:49 PM
#150
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Originally Posted by MI_FamilyMan
Changing speeds a little bit, I am curious to know what RSX Type S owners think of the new Civic Si since they almost seem to be identically placed in the market. I also would think the last-gen Prelude should perform similar to the new Si. I can respect the Si for what it is because I used to drive Hondas all the time. But if I was looking at the Si, I would probably make sure to check out the new GTI, and also the upcoming Mazdaspeed 3. These are cars I feel are closer to the same than the RX8. Mainly due to the RWD and rotary engine, but I just feel the RX8 is not in the same category. And I feel it is just so much better looking.
Performance-wise, alot of cars will be much like the RX8 and Si under stock conditions and public driving conditions, which is what 95% of the population is buying for. So all this back-and-forth arguing seems pretty ridiculous. But I guess some people are really passionate.
Just remember how long 0.5 second is... in the grand scheme of things, it isn't jack.
Performance-wise, alot of cars will be much like the RX8 and Si under stock conditions and public driving conditions, which is what 95% of the population is buying for. So all this back-and-forth arguing seems pretty ridiculous. But I guess some people are really passionate.
Just remember how long 0.5 second is... in the grand scheme of things, it isn't jack.
.5 seconds or 1 or even 2 seconds isn't much time, but feel wise it can be a world of difference. There is a pretty big difference in the feel of a car that goes 5.5 seconds 0-60 vs. one that does it in 6.0 seconds.