124Spider

Not to quibble too badly, but you're a bit out of date with the S2000. They reworked the engine for the 2004 model; it now hits close to peak torque below 3000 rpm, and stay at least that high almost all the way to redline.

I was curious last night, and took the RX-8 out for some acceleration work (on a wide-open, straight stretch of back road, with no side roads or driveways), running it from very low rpm to redline in first, second and third gears (didn't feel like doing that in fourth gear on public roads, especially at night). I then took the S2000 out, and did exactly the same thing. As I already knew, it is not at all true that the S2000 has a narrow power band. Of course, it has no power band compared to, say, a Corvette, but it will pull in any gear (including sixth) at 3000 rpm much better than an RX-8, and it hits peak power at 8000rpm; it really does have a 5000rpm power band. The RX-8 comes on very nicely over 5000 rpm, and it always a gas to drive, but it clearly starts to lose oomph well before redline, apparently peaking at perhaps 7500rpm.

It is certainly true that the S2000 is best kept above 6000 rpm, where the VTEC kicks in, but that's not the same thing as saying that its power band is only above 6000 (if that were the case, the RX-8 could be accused of having no power band, and we wouldn't want to do that ).

DARKMAZ8

^^^^did you note the mph at the end of each shift?

RX-Hachi

Yes, but that's only after Bunta installs a racing engine in it.

Nope, the 8 still gets the prize. A rare 60's semi-classic is almost like pointing out an exotic car. And I believe we're talking about current production cars.

Nice tidbit of info though.

124Spider

The RX-8, with the 9000 rpm redline, has higher speed top ends on each gear than the new S2000, with an 8000 rpm redline.

RX-Hachi

Then something is wrong with your RX-8. In my car, the power builds strongly from 5000 rpm and then really punches in at about 8000 and pulls all the way until the rev limiter kicks in at 9300. And certainly no loss of power or peaking at 7500. Really, something's not right with your car.

mikefrombarrie

I had a good laugh when I read this post, but youre 100% right.

124Spider

I'm sorry, but I must have worded my post poorly. Of course the RX-8 pulls all the way to redline; what I meant to say was that my butt dyno could tell that it was pulling with a bit less enthusiasm after about 7500 rpm--still pulled strongly, but less so. With the new S2000, it just gets happier and happier all the way to redline, where it literally peaks power.

Look at post 34 in this thread, where I have posted actual dynos (as opposed to butt dynos ) of a 2004 RX-8 and a 2004 S2000, both stock, both taken on the same dyno back to back. It bears out my subjective impression. That's not to say that the RX-8 is anything but very fun to drive, but I was just taking exception to the earlier statement by someone who knocked the "power band" of the S2000 compared to the RX-8.

DARKMAZ8

I think that the s2000 sounds like it's faster at high rpm b/c of the sound. The v-tec surge along with a piston powerplant just sounds like the engine is straining and makes for a more intense feel at high rpm. Mate this sound with a harder suspension and this will translate in the s2000's feel. Just dropping a car will intensify the feel of speed.

RX-Hachi

Yes, I recall your dyno chart. Another reason why I really think something's not quite right with your car. Or maybe something is just really right with mine. My butt dyno feels the exact opposite of what you describe. My car punches in with a strong power surge (enough to kick my head back) at about 8k and pulls very hard all the way to redline.

124Spider

Well, actually, the S2000 is faster than the RX-8. It's more powerful and lighter. The VTEC surge is very real, with a 25 rwhp jump instantaneously. Try it; you'll like it. :p

The RX-8 dyno posted was not my car; it was one of the 8 RX-8s, all but one of which had essentially identical dynos. The S2000 was my car, so I know it's stock.

DARKMAZ8

I have and it was on a track. I didn't say it wasn't faster but it's not faster by much. You don't need to tell me things I already knew. I'm just stating that butt dynos are not reliable sources of info. I built a crx with a gsr frankenstien w/b20 bottom end and threw on a greddy turbo about 6 years ago. That's what I call fast! The s2000 is quicker then the 8 by a small margin! To me, Fast is 12 seconds or under. :p

mikefrombarrie

What was your 1/4mile time on the CRX?

StealthFox

yeah i definately know about using gas lower than 91 oct caused pinging especially on modded cars, but is it the same deal for 05's? also what year of WRX do you own?
and also, i cant be *that* much of a troll with my whopping 94 posts

DARKMAZ8

12.375 with slicks

I know it had an eleven in her but traction was a big issue. I blew 2 motors until I gave up. This car was built by me and the guys at progressive. I believe we ended up selling it to a guy in barrie. It was lime green. We sold it with an H22 if I remember correctly. But ya, I used to love the older v-tecs. We were one of the first shops to swap the b16 into the crx. We also swaped the mazda klze 2.5 v6 into mx-3's. Those cars are pretty quick too with the swap.

I like the s2k but it really aint all that in terms of speed. It's a great autox car. I know a guy that put a comptech s/c in his s2k. It flys but I rather buy a used 91 nsx and s/c that. V6 v-tecs are sweet.

StealthFox

wow thats amazing darkmaz8, i didn't know you were a honda guy! tell more about this GSR/b20!

124Spider

It's not meant to be, of course, being a naturally aspirated 2.2 liter four cylinder reciprocating engine. It's a relatively inexpensive, great performing roadster. It's really all about "fun to drive," and it doesn't get any more fun than the S2k, for those who like that sort of thing.

I'd rather put the top down. :p To each his own. I do understand that a sc bolts on the S2000 engine pretty easily, with minimal tuning needed, and adds well over 100 rwhp, along with a lot of torque. That would be a monster of a little roadster.

StealthFox

i bet crazy torque with the 2.2l displaced s2ks

Deslock

I love my RX8 and its powerband isn't as narrow as some other cars. But it makes 75% of its peak power for ~33% of the upper RPM range while cars like the WRX, R32, Mustang GT, and 350z make 75% of their peak power for ~40% of their RPM ranges (I didn't choose 75% to make the RX8 look bad... if you go by other percentages, the same will be true: the RX8 powerband is proportionally narrower).

So even though you gotta be careful not to let the WRX bog, it actually has a wider powerband than the RX8. You can dismiss me as a numbers geek, but I owned a WRX for 2 years and my experiences with it confirms those numbers... that doesn't make the WRX a better car; it has several disadvantages compared to the RX8 and it doesn't bother me in the slightest that I need to work the shifter more than I did with the rex.

Yeah, the 2.2L S2k's shorter gearing and extra low-end oomph are supposed to make it a little more livable as a daily driver (and some think the 2.2 's peak power rating is under-rated and that it really makes 250+ hp). However, while a long flat torque curve is nice, it doesn't necessarily mean wide power band... also it can't be making close to peak torque at <3k RPM and have a 25 rw-hp jump with the VTEC surge (which would mean a 20+ rw-ftlb increase).

As I've only driven the 2.0, I really can't speak with any certainty regarding the 2.2, but it's still a low-torque-high-revver compared to most cars in its class.

124Spider

The @004+ S2000 typically dynos at 205-210 corrected on a Dynojet, about 15rwhp more than the earlier version. Mine does 210, so, assuming that the 2.0 liter really was 240 hp, the 2.2 liter probably is above 250 at the crank. And the flatter torque curve makes it a much better daily driver.

Well, take a look at the dyno curve I posted earlier in this thread. The torque plateaus at about 3k, dropping every so slightly to 6k, when VTEC kicks in, and then it drops ever so slightly to redline. So, yes, (especially combined with the gearing) it is a very, very usable car at anything above 3k, in any gear.

Sure is, and it's also much less expensive than any other car in its class, and at least as much fun to drive.

DARKMAZ8

I'm a car guy , It just so happened that the honda motors in the late 90's were the ****. especially when swapped into a smaller car like the crx. There's not much to tell about our crx other than it was a scary fast fwd car. The b20(crv motor)bottom end with the gsr head was a nice combo for boosting. We had 17psi tuned with a haltech. We managed to get 348whp and 271lbs of torque to the front wheels this was also with stock b20 internals . This was one crx you better hold on tight to the wheel. I remember once keeping up/playing with a modded 993 :D. Those were the good ol' days.

S2K----If I were you I'd save up for that comptech s/c. Great product and is pretty much a bolt on. The s/c wine along with V-tec just makes me drewl thinkin about it. :D

124Spider

You're evil. :p My son is whispering the same things into my ear. I won't do anything before the warranty expires, but that won't be long. Then I'll have to decide whether I want to build the S2000 or the All-Trac (or maybe both....).

DARKMAZ8

I am evil :D

no more banning

What the hell ill jump in here.First of all comptech s2000 sweet car.Friend has a vortech s2k and its a blast to drive and i hear the comptech is even better.Ive really had time to compare 4 cars in the last 2 monthes.My old rx8, new roadster 350z, new maxima 3.5 se company car and my sisters new 330ci.

s2000 and 350 roadster are fun to drive cars.After my aps single turbo gets here for my new z then it will be real fun but anyway back on track.I wish mazda would have done the 8 alot different.Not saying its a pos or anything but i think its confused on what it is.Daily driver i would take my maxima any day over the 8.Weekend car pry my 350 from my cold dead hands.

Mazda made the 8 a FI 2 seater 300 hp i would still have it.I love rotarys having owned 3 I was really disappointed in the 8.Sure backs seats are nice but is this trying to be pratical?How is 17 miles to the gallon practical?

Put the v6 in the 8 for the 4 seater daily drivers and save the rotary for true forced induction apps in a sports car.Guess im still looking foward to the new 7 time will tell.

Deslock

Hey, I didn't question the value or awesomeness of the S2k; it's a sweet ride.

Wow, other 2.2L S2k dynos I've seen don't show a VTEC bump that severe; they have it jumping 12-15 rwhp (not 25 and not instantly like that!) And the 2.0L F20c dynos I've seen show an even less drastic bump (though it's still noticeable when driving).

More surprising to me is that RX8's torque curve... every other dyno I've seen is much flatter up top... that RX8 shouldn't even be redlined if that dyno is accurate.

RX-Hachi

It seems you were the one who was confused about what it is. Sounds like you expected/wanted it to be an RX-7, which Mazda said it was not. So good for you, you went and got a Z. And probably lost a bundle by trading your 8. But at least you're happy now.

The majority of us know exactly what we bought, why we bought it, and are loving every minute of it.

And we still have the highest reving/redline car, which is what this thread is about.