Oh, I just realized this thread was titled How to deal with "Horsepower is king" friends?.

Simple answer, get new friends.

 

Yes best Motoring is for entertainment but those drivers are a hell of a lot better than any autox drivers and it's a REAL track. It's complete nonsense that autox is a pure test of a car's handling (though it's a good indication). The 1st and 2nd gear characteristics are one of the more important aspects of a good autox car. Any car that can't stay in the powerband in 1st or 2nd gear on an autox track will struggle no matter how well it handles. Turbo cars in general aren't very well suited for autox either. The 2G MR2 in NA form is often quicker around an autox track than the turbo version. By your thinking that means the NA car handles better than the Turbo version, which is complete nonsense.

Wheel size of the stock car is also a huge factor. You also seem to be forgetting that the very rarely does an RX-8 run on street tires in autox WRXs usually run in the various street tire classes. Put both cars on the same street tires and allow the WRX the same wheels as the RX-8 and on a regular racetrack it'll be a damn close race.

Since you think autox is such a good indication of a cars handling doesn't that mean you think that the Elise, GT3, Evo, STI, Z06 don't handle as well as the RX-8, because those cars often don't do as well in autox as the RX-8. All your argument proves is that the RX-8 is a damn good autox car. Have you ever even autoxed in your life? I highly doubt it...

Also if you actually read my posts I never disputed that the RX-8 handles better, my argument was that you'll never actually take the car to the limits on the streets. So I'll take the car that handles pretty damn well, can use the same set of tires no matter what the weather is like, and will be more fun when I mash the gas pedal.

 

First off, I was comparing the RX-8 to the WRX, NOT the STi. The STi costs thousands of dollars more than either of those cars, and is significantly modified from the WRX. (And honestly, why can't you Subaru guys ever argue something without completely changing the topic?)

And while the powerband might help the RX-8 in autox, that alone does not explain the huge difference in times between the RX-8 and WRX.

 

Geez, get over it. Enjoy your car. your friend. Then get a new friend. He probably masterbates monkeys for a living anyways. Go and rev his accord to 9k and see what's left of it. The WRX looks like a Dodge Shadow remake. Why waste your time talking about it?

 

My WRX has a curb weight of 3085 lbs. (your "homie" must have a wagon, an '06, and or some stereo equipment you're not mentioning), the MT RX-8 is listed at 3029 lbs. which seems correct considering curb weight is with a full tank of fuel. Toss in a spare tire for the RX-8 and they weigh almost the same.

 

I was talking about the WRX as well, the only time I mentioned the STI was with other cars that outhandle the RX-8 yet don't do as well in autox to prove how flawed your argument is.

Great, I gave you many reasons that help explain it. Go read them and get back to me, and maybe stop talking about autox since it's clear you've never done it nor do you understand it very well. Maybe stick to buying bling for your car, that seems to be something you can do.

 

Huh? What are you even talking about? Show me one single post I've ever made with any reference to me ever making any sort of apperarance modification to any car I've ever owned.

Is it just me, or does is seem like every single thread the Ike posts on ends up degerating into him simply hurling personal attacks at people?

 

Sorry about that, I have you confused with someone else, I thought you had a bunch of appearance mods for your car for some reason... I'm getting old and senile

Anyhow, the rest of my argument still stands and I'm sorry again for the unwarranted and misguided dig.

 

My experiences with the pre '06 WRX engine (since you used it for your weight comparison):

Both the WRX and RX-8 are gutless down low, the WRX has better mid-range punch, the RX8 has better top-end. Both cars are reasonably quick, though the WRX is a bit faster overall. The WRX's powerband is wider and it requires less shifting (in most situations). The RX8's throttle response is better (I'm not talking the WRX's about turbo lag).

As far as weight goes, the current RX-8 6-speed starts at 2880 pounds, about 200 pounds lighter than the pre '06 WRX sedan started at (and 300 pounds lighter than the '06 WRX). Perhaps more important is the RX-8's 50:50, low yaw moment, and lower COG. Yes, yes, I love the boxer as much as the next guy, but the WRX is a taller car (taller hood, roof, etc) with a larger greenhouse (more weight up high).

So it is fair to call the RX-8 light compared to the WRX (though I disagree with m477: I would take the WRX - either with a 2.0 or 2.5L - over most V8s).

Comparing the STI to the RX-8, handling-wise: The STI has stiff suspension, reinforced chassis, superior tires, and AWD. The RX-8 has soft suspension, inferior tires, and lacks chassis reinforcements (but has the advantages listed above). Both handle well, but the RX-8 is more comfortable and neutral.

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"Every time you say 'Happy Holidays,' an angel gets AIDS," - Jon Stewart

 

Is 2880 curb weight Des, and do you have any proof? I just haven't seen a number that low except when guys go to weigh their cars on scales...

 

Looking at Mazda's website, and Edmunds they have the RX-8 curb weight listed at 3,029. Subaru and Edmunds websites have the WRX listed at 3,192.

 

I love BMI...but I sure wouldn't use their races as judgements of vehicle performance.

Otherwise the NSX would be the fastest car on the planet. Half the time gan-san cheats at the start, or prevents people from passing by running a blocking line.

BMI is more about who is more crazy then which car is better. Of course sometimes its pretty obviously (like the 8 being lapped by the EVO), but some of those races are definitely a bit iffy, but still very informative.

Now BMI does do performance tests. Those are definitely a bit more valid in terms of comparison. (Like the evo 8 vs evo 9 tests in 400m etc).

 

That's for an '06 with premium package I believe, the pre '06 models were 3085.

 

I'd say it was pretty obvious in the RX-8s first appearance on Best Motoring...

 

Sorry, I just don't understand the point of these discussions. I bought the 8 because I like how it looks, how it drives or how much fun I have driving it. To my taste and my liking RX-8 is the perfect fit. If your friends do not like your car, who cares? Let them drive some econobox on steroids, which is faster than RX-8 and be happy with it. When I was shopping for a car, I looked at STI, 350Z, S2000, Mustangs and many other cars. I liked RX-8 the best, even if it is slower than the other cars I mention. Choose your values and do not listen to some fools trying to make you feel bad. They are just jealous of your shiny and nice-loooking car

 

I don't agree that it's jealousy but otherwise well put. If you like your car it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

 

oh...another one of these threads.

so many of these and the "vs" threads. people really need to stop doubting the car they bought. didn't you do any research before buying? didn't you test drive the car and compare it to others?

 

No, he bought it because it was the prettiest!

 

whatever you do.. do not race your friend with the accord off the line/drag racing


that V6 auto accord will beat the auto rx-8.

i know. i own both cars except my rx8 is a 6sp.

on a cool day at Rock Falls Raceway my accord with I/H/E ran a 14.9 @ 91 while my Rx-8 the following week ran a 15.1@94... higher trap..but my launch sucked.


let your friend drive the car and see what he thinks. it's completely different feeling when you're in the passenger seat....

 

Uhh, that's what this whole thread is about, his friend's impressions after driving the car.


"Got myself a nice lil' RX-8, and offer one of my best friends (who has quite a bit of racing experience) to have a drive in it. His impressions:"

 

Just tell him you don have to go thru a R34 skyline, NSX, etc to realise that its sufficient to drive an Accord on the street. Then tell him how you would prefer the 8 over an Accord. If you really wanna **** him off, just act stupid and tell him stuff like "The suicide doors are awesome", "My car has only 1.3 displacement" or better yet "My car comes with white light".

 

^ haha, thats great.

 

It's well known that the RX-8 weight listed is for the loaded model and people have weighed their stock RX-8s at 2870-2880 pounds with partially full tanks of fuel. Also, that WRX weight is for the 2006, which has a 2.5L engine. The previous model years weighed 3085 (a weight that was confirmed by people weighing their cars).

 

Also some mags weighed the RX8 6-speed with sport package and some fuel at 2933. But you don't consider multiple reports of weighings of multiple cars proof? I thought I read that people had weighed their WRXs at ~3085 with a partial tank of gas, but lets assume for the sake of argument that 3085 was a WRX with a full tank while 2880 was an RX8 with a minimal amount of fuel. Even if we top off the RX-8, the base pre '06 WRX's weight would still be more than 100 pounds higher than the base RX-8 6-speed's weight.

You're a smart guy, so you must realize how disingenuous it is to continually frame the discussion as base WRX vs loaded RX8 in order to claim that their weights are closer. It's just like when you've compared a loaded RX8 to the STI for price when the base RX-8 6-speed street price is close to the WRX's (and has been for two years).

Back to the handling thing, even if we were to accept that their weight difference was just north of 100 pounds (or 200 pounds for the 2006), are you seriously going to discount this?:I've driven the STI and I often give it props. And we all know that 50:50 doesn't automatically mean better handling. But the RX-8 feels a lot lighter than a 2880 or 3029 pound car for all those reasons.

Ike, you often make good points but what use is a knowledgeable post that's misleading and contains half-truths?

 

He's complaining about speed from his lofty vantage point of Honda Powah? Hmm... Sounds like someone needs a little perspective. There are guys on my car board (and elsewhere, I'm sure) with vehicles like a 400+ hp RX-7, 500+ hp mustangs, and I think one guy has somewhere over 700hp in his Supra (or will very soon). What does an accord have nowadays? 250hp? He can hit Vtec all day long and not touch any of those cars. There's always someone faster.

But, on the other hand (and with the very possible exception of the RX-7), we could actually stand a chance of keeping up with some of these cars either at an auto-X, or on the right track. Yeah, the 8 lacks power, but what it has is potential. The car is only "slow" because Mazda was so conservative with it. They could have turned it into a 270hp beast, but decided to play it safe, I guess, and focus more on reliability and driveability; which they more than succeded at.

Either when Mazda releases an actual performance package for the 8 (instead of another color/interior set), or when some more serious tuning companies begin releasing powerful turbos and superchargers, he'll see what these cars can really do.