AquaMonster

Give me someprice figures.

General tojo

"mid twenties to the thirty-thousand mark"

as mentioned at the show by the Mazda rep during his speach on the RX-8 turn table

AquaMonster

Do you think that they will be available as most cars are, or rare?

General tojo

Mazda has way too much money wraped up into developing the car to limit production...

there was a comment made that IF Mazda were to do a limited production run on the current model RX-7 for US spec and sell them here, they would only sell like 500/month.

now @ 500/ month at roughly 35K each that is a lot of money, but still not nearly enough for Mazda to do the slight redesigns needed for the project.

also note, that the RX-7 is towards the end of its run, and they have already written off its development costs overthe last 10 years....


to make long things short, Mazda wants to sell the hell out of the RX-8. if they don't it will hurt them bad...

liondogs

I just hope that what ever the price Mazda sets for the car they do not make the same mistake they did with the RX-7 and price it out of reach for the targeted consumer.

If Mazda really wants the RX-8 to be successful they should price it agressively and take a smaller profit per car. You can have the best car with the most advanced technology but if you price it to high it will fail.

Take a cue from Chrysler with the PT Cruiser. Price it properly and it will sell.

General tojo

MazdA has already priced their cars more than reasonable reletive to their cost to produce the car... one example is the 3rd gen RX-7. many many magazines testing the car said boldly that it was better than cars costing many multiples of the cost of the RX-7. Besides that, it took corvette 8 years and not until the onset of the ZO6 model to catch the performance of the RX-7.

Also look at Mazda cars, the dealer only makes like 7% off each one, which is a real shitty margin, especailly releitve to most other marks.

as far as the PT cruiser goes, yeah they re-bodied a neon, we all know that, so they already had a CHEAP platform, that was basically paid for. they priced it where it should have been,

stupid people paid a premium for them, although they will kick themselves foe it as the cars are depreciating like crazy now...

liondogs

I agree that the RX7 was a great car. But the price had risen to the mid to upper 30K mark during the last year or two of availability in the US. Mazda I believe sold less than 1000 cars for model year 95 and stopped importing them.

If they try to price the RX-8 in the low 30K range I fear the same results. Mazda is not perceived by the general buying public to be a 30K plus car brand. Mazda will do well at the start selling to "rotary head" type people but after that if the price is to high they will have trouble attracting "new" buyers IMHO.

I read a interview with Mark Fields in Miata magazine and he stated that Mazda is happy selling 15 to 20 thousand Miatas a year in the US. Maybe this is Mazda's goal also with the RX-8. If so then they might be able to price it on the high side and hit that mark.

JGard18

Chances are (and Mazda would be stupid not to do this) that they'll price it competitive with it's direct competition.

There are three other cars coming, that will be about the same performance, and the same price.

350Z, we already know, starts at $26k, and tops @ $34k
Lancer EVO will be sub $30k
WRX-STi should be around $30k (hopefully lower).

If Mazda prices the RX8 over $30, it will be outsold by all other cars in this list.

liondogs

I agree. The RX8 has to be priced below 30K to be successful. The lower the price the more successful the car will be. Are you listening Mazda?

veloceracing

Mazda has stated that they wish to keep the car under the 30k mark. If you look at what is the biggest competitio. the nissan 350Z you may see a very similar price.

bwob

Assuming Yen/Dollar relationships remain more-or-less in line with what they are now, expect a 'base' 210hp (or thereabouts) model to start in the US$25,000 to US$26,000 range. The 250+ hp up-spec model (larger wheel/tire combination, six-speed standard but no automatic option) will probably be parked around US$30,000. A smidgen below or above.

bwob

veloceracing

I was unaware of tuned down model, I figured it would be more like a sports car with very few options, the interior seems rather custom, the engine all set out, and no one has said a lick about a tuned down version, I dont doubt it at all, but do you have a page or something stating this.

This has sparked my curiousity and requires me to research more.

Johnny

Mazda didn't say anything about a base model, the only difference i know of is the automatic Rx-8 will have smaller wheels than the manual one. Where did you hear about a base model Rx-8 with 210hp?

bwob

The most authoritative source of information on the two RX-8 specs has been Magazine-X. The December, 2000 issue gave details on the two spec levels as well as dimensional data that was within 5mm of the dimensions released for the near-production car shown at the Tokyo Motor Show last October. Subsequent issues have contained further information, but nothing as interesting as the copy appearing in that December, 2000 edition.

Magazine-X's information on monthly volumes broken down by spec and region was particularly interesting, taken from documentation establishing the business case for the new car. Japanese domestic sales of the base-spec car (which will be the only one with the option of automatic transmission) was anticipated to be 150 cars per month with five-speed manuals, 350 per month with automatics. The six-speed only 280hp (JIS) model was listed at 440 cars per month. Projected North American volume breakdown was given as 390 cars per month with the five-speed/210hp, 1290 per month automatic/210+hp and 900 per month for the six-speed/250hp car. EC numbers (which include non-EC markets in the region) were 1300 cars per month for five-speed/210hp, 240 cars per month for the automatic/210+hp and 460 cars per month for the six-speed/250hp. "Rest of the world" (to use the term appearing in Mazda documentation, translated into English) volume is 100 cars per month and only the 250hp six-speed being delivered to these small but diverse markets.

Job 1 was originally scheduled for the second Tuesday in January, 2003, but has been pushed back roughly one week. This will certainly make the late December, 2002 delivery in Saint Louis - mentioned elsewhere in the RX-8 Forum - difficult. Unless it means that shipments to The Gateway City will be of RX-8s in (very) unfinished kit form.

Japanese public announcement is scheduled for mid-to-late February, 2003, with deliveries beginning in early March.

bwob

liondogs

So if my math and your sources are correct Mazda projects to sell almost 31000 RX-8's a year in North America. Not bad. I wonder how supportive the aftermarket will be for this car. It would be nice if the aftermarket supported the RX8 like they support the Miata

hercdriver

Hey BWOB can you post a link to magazine X. Also your posts are extremely refreshing on both this board and the miata board, keep it up. Does anybody else feel like we will get it in the rear yet again if we don't see the 280hp version in the US. Its no wonder Mazda has trouble competing with the likes of GM and Ford. I can get any type of Mustang or Corvette made in the US, but if I wan't a special edition anything from a Japanese automaker I'm SOL. I find this very frustrating and I believe it costs them the high end consumer's loyalty here in the US.

bwob

Don't get your nickers in a knot, at least not just yet. The 280hp (JIS) rating is far closer to the 250hp (SAE net) figure mentioned most commonly with the export RX-8 than you might imagine. Development is still continuing on the car, with the tough part -emissions certification - not even started. When all is said and done, it's possible that Mazda will find a few more ponies in there than they've been alluding to. I would imagine that after the faux-pas over horsepower with the 2001 NB8B Miata, Mazda is being conservative on power output announcements.

But hercdriver, don't start basing any assessment of the car - before the thing's even been signed off - solely on empirical data like horsepower. That's not being fair to the car, the team sweating blood to get it to market or yourself. Let's say it has 'only' 245hp at launch but just happens to be a really, really great drive as well as more than acceptably quick. Is that shafting the public? Not in my book. Only the ones who know more about spec sheets than driving are likely to feel like they've been done over.

The only link I have for Magazine-X is this one. Be forewarned that the English language pages don't have quite as much information as the Japanese ones, and both are a mere tip of the iceberg alongside the magazine itself - so much so I've given up on the website since what shows up there is tad more a month old in magazine time. But then the guys at Magazine-X intend the website to serve as a promotional supplement to the publication, not as a loss-making freebie.

What kinda Herc do you drive, hercdriver? An 'E'? An 'H'? A new 'J', or something a bit more esoteric?

bwob

Jerome81

BWOB,
When you say "job 1" what exactly are you referring to? The scheduled US launch date?

bwob

Jerome, the term 'Job 1' refers to the first official day of production for a car. Pilot cars which may be built off tool on the line are not considered, as they are cars which are not necessarily representative of production. So Job 1 is the first day of production of a new car which the public can actually buy.

Japan has no Christmas holidays, with New Years the big one there. Companies usually close down before end of December and don't open up till three to seven days into the New Year (depending on the company and where New Years Day falls on the calendar). After all the factory workers get back from Holidays, the RX-8 will slip into the system at a low production rate, gradually increasing to the anticipated line rate for the car.

bwob

hercdriver

Hey don't get me wrong. I'm a rotor-head to the core and will buy a RX8 for the wife no matter what the numbers are (as long as I can convince her that she likes it, lol). I only bring up the point because it seems like the JDM always gets just a little bit better version of everything they make, while anything made in the US seems to be available to anyone. I fly a H3 at the Rock.

bwob

Having lived in Japan and being able to sample the lot, I beg to differ. While there are some cases where a model or variation was available in Japan which was not offered elsewhere (the Nissan R32-R34 GT-R being one example), bear in mind the Japanese locally produced and available product is compromised to a great degree.

Regulations in Japan mean speedometers cannot read past 180km/h on domestically-produced cars. Additionally, they are speed-limited through the engine management CPU to a window of 180-190km/h. A rear weirdie is that cruise control cannot function below 70km/h nor above 115km/h. All these things can be bypassed, but at some expense to the owner. Price what a new aftermarket engine management computer costs nowadays? It ain't cheap. Replacement 220km/h speedometer head units for lowly (and old) NA series Miatas start at 40,000 yen (about US$300), so the removing and replacing locally required hardware can set you back a pretty penny.

Another reason which it seems all the good stuff stays in Japan is that Japanese emission regulations are a snap alongside those in the 'States. The fact the California emissions laws are so tough means most companies build cars to deal with the worst case scenario of The Golden State. After all, if you produce an engine which will clear California regulations, you can sell it anywhere and everywhere. But the testing protocol for California, especially the 100,000 mile (possibly being upped to 150,000 mile) deterioration factor is a very tough nut for some cars to crack. Turbocharged and to a slightly lesser degree supercharged cars have a particular problem with it. Fuel quality in the 'States is also below that of the EC. This is independent of octane ratings, but, quite literally, the fuel itself. US 49-state and Australian fuels are notoriously poor as regards batch consistency and purity from contaminants, both of which prevent manufacturers from extracting as much from a given car - especially one which has been tuned to an edge - than they might where better quality fuel is available. Subaru got stung by this in Australia when it imported a short run of previous-generation STi Coupes straight from Japan (Australian emissions and many safety regulations are close enough that the Japanese regulation - where tougher than the Aussie one - is accepted). Owners who went to the track, lived in the Northern Territory or bothered to exceed the speed limit by a goodly margin found the cars were still speed-limited to 180km/h. A few who weren't too particular about where they filled the tank were finding the pistons would get holed from the crappy fuel. It wasn't a pretty sight, but hey, they had just what the Japanese Domestic market had. Well, except good quality fuel...

As long as you live in the US and the US has safety and emission standards different to the rest of the world, there will always be product in the 'hands off' category which might seem to be better than what's on offer in your neighborhood. Until safety and emissions standards are harmonized on a global basis, people in whatever country will find the non-availability of something enough to make the grass look greener on the other side of the fence. However, I wouldn't be holding my breath that such a day will come any day soon.

bwob

nt5k

talked to a dealer yesterday.. he said 28k.. but we all know how much dealers know about anything..

btw, cool sig bwob, its so damn true...

NoTears316

You can get some great deals on used 8's.

bulletproof21

^um this thread is 4 and a half years old.

NoTears316

So... maybe he's still looking.