druck

Re-read the message, I said dip the gas to match the revs, which isn't the same as keeping it down, or coming off completely.

I think you should keep to autos that side of the pond, sticks seem to way too difficult for most of you.

wleonard

You must be right druck...we "yanks" dont have a lot of history with automobiles. We have much to learn from our Red Coat brothers.

BRx8

i shift 2 different ways:

1) daily driving - i come off the gas completely press the clutch halfway to all the way, engage the higher gear, slowly let off the clutch while evenly depressing the gas...makes for a smooth ride

2) racing - i let off the gas just a little (like an inch), press the clutch just enough to disengage and engage the higher gear (about an inch to 2 inches in the RX-8), let off the clutch quickly while flooring the gas...keeps the revs up...i've always called this power shifting although i don't know if that's the right designation

so yea, it depends on how you want to drive...sometimes when i power shift i don't let off the gas at all, sometimes i press it in further cuz the time it takes for me to get from 1 gear to the next is about a second so when i get to the next gear, i'm up to 8000-9000 rpms and the car takes off a lot better...

Rick

Funny, now you M/T drivers are bickering amongst yourselves. Thanks for giving the A/T drivers a rest.
Anyhow, what exatly is wearing out if if you let the RPM drop? I Know diesel tractor truck drivers(on older trucks) like to double clutch and shift at a certain RPM. I think thay do it that way so so they do not grind gears.

8_wannabe

Damn, a brit with an attitude. Not a pretty sight. I have no problem driving stick, only a problem following bad advice. I don't race and don't drive like a maniac (or a mad cow) so no need for rev matching here. Next time you want to post an opinion please do so but don't present it as fact. Like "letting revs drop is just almost as bad as staying on the gas." That is just lame.

This is exactly what I do.

druck

Well a Frenchman invented the first steam powered car, a Scot invented the first electric car, and Germans invented the first petrol and diesel cars. What did you invent again?

Sorry to be argumentative, but its a bit rich having stick technique questioned by auto drivers. Over here you aren't allowed behind the wheel of a stick unless you have a stick liecence, those that have learnt on autos aren't allowed near. It may go someway to explain why some people are getting such low gas mileage and blowing engines after a few thousand miles.

Anyhow lets get back to agreeing about how good the car is.

Cheers
---Dave

ptiemann

It's the same in Germany, I think. The amount of people who take driving school and the test on an automatic is probably under 1%. I don't know anyone.

Also the amount of cars equipped with automatic transmission is very much lower in Germany than in the USA. Same in India by the way. I figure Americans need their hands free for other things while driving.

-Peter

Rick

Its OK,you can talk to me. I can & do drive a stick.

druck

There is quite a bit of snobbery against autos in Europe. Here the only people who qualify on an auto only licence are those who have failed the normal (manual) test a dozen times.

An automatic sports car over here isn't common (RX-8 comes as 6sp MT Hi Power and 5sp MT Standard Power). The only autos tend to be large very expensive cruisers, which have a reputation of being old mans cars, as they are the only ones that can afford them. By that age they are too used to the fat cat lifestyle to bother changing gears by themselves.

Cheers
---Dave

silver8

...on a slightly separate technique, as the power in lower RPM's is lacking on the 8 (say, below 4,000 RPM), when I need immediate zip, I floor the gas as I am depressing the clutch while quickly dropping a gear and then quickly releasing the clutch. The result is that the car gets up and goes. I would warn that you better get the shift done quickly though or you will quickly hear the buzzer and feel the gas cutoff.

I also tried dropping two gears, though you had better be very familiar with the 6-sp gear shift as more than once I caught the wrong gear (i.e. switching from 6th, looking for 4th and catching 2nd). If in a hurry I find it nearly as easy and more precise to do a quick 6-5-4 or 5-4-3 with the lever with one clutch depression. There are much less challenges going 4-2 as there's nothing left of 2.

Here's a question for our UK brethren, where is first gear? Is it all the way to the left (as in the US) or all the way to the right (given the right-hand drive)? If it's the former it would add further intrigue to driving a RHD car...in addition to driving on the "wrong" side of the road and shifting with the left hand. Also, can you confirm that the gas pedal is on the right? Just wondering...while I have traveled to the UK many times (and loved it each time), I have never driven over there. Cheers!

downshift

I sometimes did that on my car too. I left my foot on the gas at the same angle and depress the clutch - shift - release the clutch for a quick and smooth downshift. Although I think that is bad for the synchro's.

The gear and pedal positions are the same for RHD cars. The only thing that's flipped is that the turn signal stalks are on the right now instead of the left. Everytime I switched from a LHD to RHD, I always forgot about that and activated the wipers instead of the turn signals

druck

The gear pattern is always the same, low on the left, high on the right, the pedals are also the same!!! The clutch pedal is next to transmission tunnel, which is where it supposed to be right next to the clutch.

And whats this nonsence about driving on the wrong side? You do know why dont you? Its the Frenchies fault!

Back in the days of horses and carridges everyone used to drive on the left, which meant you passed opposing traffic on the right - your sword hand side incase anyone tried it on (dangerous times back then, worse than LA). However when Napolean was marching accross Europe, he objected to anyone on a horse and cart lopping of the heads of his infantry as they rode along, so decreeded everyone should drive on the other side of the road, so they couldn't use their swords - except the miget himself who was a left hander. So the French started this nonsense about driving on the wrong side, leaving only the decent parts of the world (good old former British Empire) doing the correct thing. You Americans with your indepenance nonsense decided to be contrary, as usual

Just think how easy it would be to shoot your Uzi 9mm's out the the window if you drove on the left and sat on the right, you wouldn't have to lean all the way out of the window and get the passenger to steer.

Cheers
---Dave

Jon H

Thats right, and first gear is all the way to the left. Wasnt aware that the indicator gets moved over. In fact I got 2 cars, one has it on the left, one on the right.
Here's a technique for a smooth downshift, we call it double-declutching over here, maybe its the same in US?
Floor the clutch, take your foot off the throttle. Move the gearlever into neutral. Off the clutch pedal and blip the throttle to move the needle up about 1000 rpm. Then off the throttle, down with the clutch again and move the lever into the lower gear. When you come off the clutch the engine revs should match the lower gear and you wont feel the downshift - after a bit of practice that is, and learning the change in engine revs for each gear ratio. It sounds a lot but after practice can take less than a second for the whole operation. I think before the synchro gearbox was invented you HAD to do that for every shift.
Downside - uses (even) more fuel.
Another couple of points - keeping on the throttle while you depress the clutch WILL wear out the clutch and possibly the gearbox.
Coasting to a stop (out of gear) doesnt save the brakes, it wears them out quicker. The engine should help with the braking, unless doing an emergency stop, so change down as you slow down. Also, if the road is slippy or you are braking into a bend, coasting will reduce stability, you need power down to control the car, especially if its rear wheel drive.
JH

wleonard

[QUOTE]Originally posted by druck
[B]Well a Frenchman invented the first steam powered car, a Scot invented the first electric car, and Germans invented the first petrol and diesel cars. What did you invent again?

Well, I do appoligize to my right honorable comrade accros the pond. You are certainly correct in your assesment that europeans are better drivers. And appearently, much better inventors as well. Technological Capitalists greatness incarnate you blokes.

I shudder to think were the world would be had you not carried the rest.

As I ponder that terrible thought, I will enjoy my Japanese made automobile. Manufactured with tender loving care and techniques of Demming.

Jon H

Oh, and Druck, careful, You've Been Flamed. There's more of them on here than us, AND they've already got their cars!
Walk away......

druck

I dont know what side the indicators are on on the UK car. I dont know if I can trust the pictures, which are either J-Spec modules or reversed pictures of LHD's.

Usually Japanese cars are more suited to right hand drive than UK ones. They also drive on the left like us, but make their cars primarily for the local market, where as most of our designs cater for the left hand drive European market.

The proper place for things on a right hand drive car, like my Mazda MX3 V6 is:-

* Indicators on the right - so you can steer and indicate with the right hand, and shift with the left hand (useful for our roundabout things).

* Fuel cap on the left, so its against the curb when you pull up - not that we have any roadside gas stations any more (regulations).

* Exhaust on the right so the fumes go in to the middle of the road not at the pedestrians. The RX8 has pipes on both sides, but the Euro4 regulations means it puts out cleaner air than it takes in!

Cheers
---Dave

wleonard

not necessary. I am the first to enjoy some lighthearted verbal jousting. Touche`.

No need to scamper. After all, we are the criminals and garbage banished by "proper" europeans hundreds of years ago to settle a savage land.

So, reasonably, you have every right to consider us as such.

We do wear shoes now. You will give us that much, yes?

Nevermind, I bore myself and others.

Cheers.

visitor

why is it that you should be in neutral when you blip the throttle, instead of just holding down the clutch, blipping the throttle, shifting down and then letting off the clutch? there's probably a good reason, i can't remember. i

eccles

A wise man once told me "Australia got the criminals; America got the puritans. Australia got the better deal." :D

Jon H

Because the drive has to be connected when you blip the throttle, ie. the clutch has to be let out - its not just to get the engine speed right, but also the correct shafts in the gearbox too. Releasing the clutch whilst in neutral makes this connection, so that the 'throttle blip' can be transmitted through the drive.
I'm not a technohead so maybe someone out there might be able to add more detail, but I enjoy my driving and know that it works!! I'd draw a diagram if that was possible!
JH

Jon H

For a comparison between the British and the Americans there was a famous quote a few years back, OK its a bit old now, it came in the Clinton era. And not my words so dont flame me please....

Three differences were noted between GB and USA:
1) In Britain, English is spoken
2) If the British hold a Sports World Championship, other countries are invited to take part
3) In Britain, visitors to the Head of State just go down on the one knee.

8_wannabe

Slightly off the mark, but fun nevertheless, esp if there are any Canucks lurking here:

"Pity the poor Canadians. They could have gotten British culture, French cuisine and American technology. Instead, what they got is British cuisine, American culture and French technology."

I heard this at a NATO meeting once where members of all nations were present. Thought it was pretty funny.

JohnnyCumLately

That's close to what I read, but you skipped the French Revolution. Peasants used to walk on the right so they could see the carriages coming before they were mown down. After the revolution they continued on this side even when they started to get carts of their own, and any aristocracy wishing to keep their heads found it safest to do the same. Napolean extended use of the right (i.e. wrong) side of the road when marched into Prussia etc. and another troublemaking shortarse extended it further in the middle of the last century. The states, i think, chose to drive on the right mainly because we use the left. Elsewhere the side of the road used reflects the current or historical influence of empires. Iraq, I imagine, drives on the left at the moment.

JohnnyCumLately

Was it savage when you found it? I thought you'd worked hard to get it that way

Hayseed

To get back on point (as amusing as these ramblings are)...

I do exactly what visitor is suggesting (I think -- if I'm reading him right). When I shift, I simultaneously release the throttle and disengage the clutch (the teeter totter), which immediately reduces the rpms. Before I again let off the clutch I give the throttle a "blip" to bring the rpms back up to the level necessary for the new gear (whether lower or higher). When the rpms are at the right spot, I release the clutch.

Seems to work...is it wrong? (I'm relatively new to MT myself, which may be obvious to all.)