Danomite

Well this comparo really isn't that big ... anyways, you might be wondering about my very odd choice of cars for this comparo. The reason I chose these cars to compare is because these are the cars I have been comparing for some time now, trying to figure out which one I wanted. Currently, I've preordered a RX-8, but I'm still curious to hear what others have to say about these cars. I've checked around on this forum and while there has been some comparisions done, I'm not really happy with the direction some of those threads. I'm going to give a <I>brief</I> list of pros and cons for each and I will attempt to go over some of my reasoning for why I would want the car.


RX-8

Pros:

- 250 hp, high-revving engine
- Great looks!
- Sweet looking interior
- Light, nimble handling
- Sporty, but also very practical
- Lots of standard features
- Terrific price

Cons:

- Could use a bit more torque
- Reliability sort of an unknown?
- Not as easy to drive in bad weather (lots of this around Toronto)


A4 (1.8T)

Pros:

- Quattro!
- Great interior (both for feel and look)
- I love the look of the B6 A4, however, I think the unpainted lowers is just awful, but that can be fixed up
- Lots of standard features
- Turbo engine is easily modified (chip will give it over 200 hp)
- Price is about the same as an RX-8 (at least in Canada)

Cons:

- COILPACK problem (although, I hear the new ones don't have this problem)
- Only 170 hp in stock form
- Adding all the mods to make it quicker and look nicer requires quite a bit of $$
- Very heavy!
- Steering and handling isn't as responsive or as nimble as other cars in this class


G35 Coupe

Pros:

- 280 hp, 270 lb/ft of torque!!
- Exterior style is great
- Interior style is decent
- Lots of standard features
- Handles well

Cons:

- AWFUL interior materials, these materials are the cheapest around!
- Terrible choice of interior lighting (yellow ... gross)
- I've read this car does not handle well in bad conditions
- If I'm sitting in the front, the rear seats are absolutely useless! (even if a normal person sits in front, the rear seats are very tight)


IS300

- 215 hp (so it's about avg. among this group)
- Exterior is decent
- Interior quality is decent
- Handling is on par with most cars in this class (nothing extraordinary though)

Cons:

- Interior style is all over the place! It's not really a "classy" interior, it's more of a gimmicky one
- Nothing really sticks out about this car. It's styling isn't really there, it's not the fastest around, it's certainly not the cheapest car around.


Summary and Thoughts:

I know this probably doesn't seem like a very good comparo. I don't have numbers to back up my points, but I have had a chance to sit in some of these cars, and drive some of them. These are mostly my thoughts about them.

- I have sat in every one of these cars (except RX-8, wasn't allowed to) and checked out the interiors in full detail. I consider the A4 to have the best interior around. I am wondering if anyone has had a chance to sit in both an A4 and an RX-8 and tried to compare the interior quality. I have been on the AudiWorld boards and they put down basically any interior that doesn't live up to the Audi standard. I put great emphasis on interior because that's where I spend most of my time in a car and I want it to be a place I can enjoy. I don't expect every car manufacturer to match an Audi's interior, but I expect some quality. This is why the G35 Coupe was so disappointing to me. For a 50k (CDN) car, you would expect some quality with the interior, but if feels as cheap as the interior in a Civic!

- For me, HP and torque isn't the end all and be all. I live in a big city (Toronto), so there's not really too many chances to drive these cars to their potential, but I'd love to have the ability to. :D So, something like an A4 (though severly underpowered compared to the others) would actually be suitable.

- I ended up choosing the RX-8 because it has a little of everything and gives me something very unique (4 door sports car) that is a great price and is practical.

Well, that's it for this super long post. I would like to hear everyone else's thoughts with regards to any of these cars.

MattZ

Well I have a 2002 A4 3.0, so I guess I am one of those snobby Audi drivers that hates all other interiors :D

Seriously though, the A4 without a doubt has the nicest interior of any car I have sat in. Interior accomodations are also important to me. Because of this, I recently went and test drove a Mazda 6 (loved it!) and was very impressed with the interior quality. It blew away the G35 sedan and coupe, those were awful. I fully expect the RX-8 interior to be very nice, most likely much better than a 350z, G35, IS300, and many others.

Hercules

My friend has an A4, and I think of all manufacturers they have the best interiors.

JTek_55

Well, for starters I will say that I was considering a G35 and an A4 1.8 before putting down my deposit on the RX-8. I was also considering the 350Z and the SVT Cobra. I ultimately came to the decision that the RX-8 was the best choice, and here's why:

350Z:

1)The interior in this car is OK, but only in the "Frost" leather color. I know this is of personal opinion, but that is what were talking about here.

2)I test drove the 350Z twice and I was not impressed overall by the performance. Yes, it does have gobs of torque for it's size, but even the highest amounts of torque do not a fun car make.

3)While attempting to test drive the 350Z, the dealer service level was not what I would call inviting. They would not let me drive the car unless I let them run my credit and give them a non-refundable deposit. Even after I finally convinced them to let me drive it and I decided I did not like it, they kept calling me at home and bugging me to come in and buy it.

4)My wife and I will be trying to get pregnant soon and I will need some type of rear seat.

G35c:

1)Same reasons as the 350Z really. I have not driven the car but I have heard enough bad about it to cross it off of my list.


Audi:

1)The lack of horsepower is what stopped me from even test driving the car. 170hp for a car that heavy was not viable to me.

2)Where I live they are EVERYWHERE. Everyone and their brother has an A4 out here and I wanted my car to at least stand out a little from the norm.


Cobra:

1)Price. Period. I know the car is built on an aging chassis and the interior leaves something to be desired, but the car is just damn fun to drive. There is just something about American muscle that I like. When I got behind the wheel and tapped that accelerator, I was in love with the power. In fact, (sorry rotary die-hards) if the car was just $2000 cheaper, it would be in my driveway right now and I would not be posting this message. Not to mention the insurance rates... Yeesh!!


All that said, I have my deposit down for my RX-8 and I am counting the days until I take delivery. Looking back, I'm glad I made this choice because I feel like the RX-8 is a truly inovative car in a sea of look-alikes and wannabe's.

Danomite

Haha! :D

I actually wanted to include the 6 in my comparison, but I felt I'd get mashed because people would tell me this car isn't in the same class as the others I have listed. I have sat in a Mazda 6, but have not had a chance to test drive it yet. I must say outside and inside, I am very impressed. I like this car sooo much more than the Accord or Camry. The interior too is pretty impressive. I don't really like the feel of the "fake" aluminum, but other than that, I like the interior. I guess, I'm just a little afraid of having an interior that looks nice (RX-8) but feels very cheap like a G35.

ZoomZoom

The only other car that I would add to the list would be the BMW 330Ci, however even that is too much of a compromise. The other thing with the BMW is the price, $48,900.00 CDN base price and that's without their $800.00 metallic paint option. Hell, a base RX-8 GT sells in Canada for $39,595.00 CDN.

Thanks BMW for a nice car - but NO thanks!

Danomite

I'm in total agreement with you here. I have never even considered the BMW only because it is far overpriced. If I were to option it out to match the features of the RX-8, I'd probably be looking at 60k CDN. Also, I want to have some uniqueness and there are just far too many bimmers around. However, I will admit that the 330Ci is a nice car.

pelucidor

Danomite - it seems as if your list is really only two cars: the RX-8 and the A4 1.8t. You list so many negatives for the G35 and IS300 that they should be dropped immediately.

Between the two you need to decide whether you want real luxury and space with reasonable performance and handling, or something more unique with less luxury but perhaps a lot more fun. Should be easy...

MattZ

Hopefully I will have the best of both worlds, an A4 and an RX-8 :D

They are very different cars. I don't think you can go wrong either way. Let me give you a couple of positives about the A4 you might not be aware of. You should be able to get a very good deal on an A4 ($500-$1000 over invoice), Audi dealers are very willing to deal. That should aleviate some of the cost issues with the A4. Also, you can reliably chip the A4 for $300 which will give you about 205 hp / 240 ft-lb off the bat without any other mods. I've owned 2 A4's,so feel free if you have any questions about the A4 so I can help with your decision.

Out of the cars you list, I would only consider the A4 and the RX-8, forget the others.

ZoomZoom

I just priced a similarly equipped 330Ci on BMW Canada's web site at it came to $66,370.00 CDN. Mind you, it did come equipped with a ski bag.

Danomite

pelucidor, you are very right, I do have a certain bias towards the A4 and RX-8 don't I? :D

Honestly, if Infiniti had even bothered to put a little bit of effort into actually making the interior somewhat "uncheap", I would've already bought a G35 Coupe by now.

Danomite

MattZ, I only <B>WISH</B> I could be in your position. As of now, I can only afford one of these great cars.

You are right. I can't really go wrong with either car. I'm sure that I will be extremely happy with either one. I am aware of the ease with which you can chip the A4, and that is why I'm not too concerned about performance. It would be nice to be able to get a deal on the A4 (unlike the RX-8, MSRP), but with both cars configured the way I like them, they are very close in price. The only real difference is that the A4 will not have NAV (don't like the weird Audi NAV system), but it will have quattro. The RX-8 will have NAV, but obviously does not have quattro. I had been wanting the A4 for so long before the RX-8 came along. For now, the RX-8 is tops, but it's very close. I wish I didn't have to decide between the two.

MattZ, since you have an A4, and are looking to buy an RX-8, have you compared the interior quality of the two? Are they comparable? I know the A4 can't be beat in this department, but I'm hoping the RX-8 comes close.

Danomite

$66 k, yup, overpriced

But yes, I'm sure that skibag is sure worth it! :D

BTW, Leafs acquired <B>Owen Nolan</B> tonight! Go Leafs Go! :D

nostatic

Great discussion. I currently own a 2002 Audi A4 1.8T. It's stock, except for an APR Stage 1+ upgrade. So now it moves along pretty well.

I have two young sons, so when it came time to start thinking about purchasing a second vehicle (my wife soon goes back to work after a 1 year maternity leave), my logical choices were WRX, RX-8, used Porsche 964, and a used E36 M3.

I love the RX-8, but I don't love the idea of being hit on depreciation for 2 new cars in 2 years. That's really the only reason I'm considering used cars from Stuttgart. Depreciation aside, I would definitely take the RX-8.

Skyline Maniac

Well, I have the G35C so I'll give you my thoughts to your comments on it. The G35C, with 280/270 power is something to behold. Instant power when you punch it, even at 2000rpm, and it's impressive how smooth the power delivery is. Even though the engine gets loud after 4500rpm. :D The handling in poor road condition is very good, but it does get bumpy. I have taken high speed turn on uneven roads, and the car sticks to the ground very well. (which surprised me because I was actually trying to activate the stability control system at the time) The low profile tires and tight suspension is rather harsh for a luxury coupe, but still MUCH better than a real sport car. (Supra, 3000GT, RX-7...) Now to address your complaints:

The interior of the G35C seems luxurious enough for me. I don't know why everybody likes to bad on the interior design of the G35. The only thing that bothers me is the painted silver plastic piece on the center console, which looks kind of cheap and not durable. I have friends with a 325xi and A6, which have decent interior but by no means outstanding. I like the interior of my car just fine, it looks simple, modern and has a hi-tech ring to it. I actually liked the overall design of the G35 better than my friend's A6 (feels old) and 325xi (boring and kind of sedated) My only complaint is some erognomic issues and the center console plastic material. The G35 interior might not be as good as the Audi, but it is still much better than most cars. (Magazines only bag on the G because they were comparing it to the Audi and BMW) All qualities being compared, I would say the G35 interior is not as good as the Audi, better than IS300, but all three cars have interior that are MUCH MUCH better than what I have seen from Mazdas. (Family have owned 929, Millenia, 626 and MPV) Not to mention, recent pictures from production RX-8 were very disturbing to me. The pre-production looked nice, but the production ? What the heck happened?

I think many car enthusiasts are brain-washed into beliving Audi has the best interior design - NOT TRUE. Some people thinks wood = luxury, which is ridiculous. People go so far as to buy these 'wood kits' to stick a wood laminate over their console..... A Mercedes S-class (last gen) had awesome interior, the Lexus LS430 has awesome interior, the E-Class has awesome interior, but the A4? BMW? No way.

Anyways, the Infiniti service and reliability were important issues when I purchased the car. I used to be an avid Mazda fan, but decades of abuse from Mazda dealerships, service departments drove me away. Your list of comparison is interesting, because I don't think the RX-8 is meant to compete with these entry level luxury cars. (Lexus, Infiniti and Audi)

Hercules

To counter that point... I could care less whether Audi had wood in their interiors.

Look at their gauges. They are crisp, bold lettered gauges. The lighting in the car works so that when you turn on one of the interior lights you don't get glare on the console.

The buttons are the highest quality plastic. They have a sturdy feel to them and tactile response is excellent. Everything is done tastefully and elegantly. I'd fix up the automatic thermostat controls but otherwise the car's interior layout, design and quality is outstanding. Only Mercedes higher end cars, and BMW's 745i compare.

As per the rest of it... Infiniti makes great cars and if the RX-8 wasn't available I'd be getting a G35 Coupe myself. But most of your comments come from somebody who is in my eyes, clearly biased by owning the car. I think many of us are guilty of this about the RX-8 and I've had my moments as well.

The reason the Infiniti isn't up to par with the Germans (yet) is because they haven't taken everything into account when creating the car. Plastics are lower quality (thus reflecting the price savings passed on to the customer), and that silver trim is terrible (I don't like it on the Mazda6 either). But there are things people are willing to overlook to get the car they want. I'd definately say the G35 Coupe is a better car (performance/handling wise) than the A4, but not than the 330. But when you take price into consideration, aside from the RX-8 the G35 Coupe takes the cake.

I've noticed a few of your posts and nothing is of issue, however let's mention early on that we are trying to be a constructive forum and have had more than one 350Z/G35 owner come and troll these forums. Quality is truly in the eye of the beholder though, and that goes for both outside appearance and interior build quality. So if you're happy... doesn't matter!

However if your intentions are noble and you're curious, want a fun and reasonable debate, the outlet is here. I just hope not to see any trolling from you

MattZ

Dude...I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. It is generally known that Audi has the best interiors in the industry...people can rag on Audi's for many different factors, but NOT the interiors. Have you ever actually sat in an A4. I have sat in and studied almost evry luxury car out there, including the S class, all bimmers etc...and nothing compares to Audi. Just about every car maker benchmarks Audi as the world leader in interior design. The quality of materials, ergonomics, and overall design are the best.

MattZ

Basically I'm looking to buy an affordable, sporty, and at least somewhat practical car to complement the A4. That's why I have set my eyes on the RX-8. Since I drive German cars, I am a little picky about interiors. I'm sorry, but Nissan and Infiniti interiors are so off putting, that I ruled out the G35 and the Z for that reason alone. What's with their steering wheels? When I decide on a car, it is the whole package, not just exterior looks and performance, which the Z and the G35 both have. I am expecting the RX-8 to be a notch above the G35 and the Z as far as the interior goes. When I test drove the Mazda 6, I was inpressed with the look and the feel of the interior. The dash and doors had a high quality rubber feel. The plastics seemed pretty solid. Overall, the look and feel were pretty good. I expect the RX-8 to be the same or better. As of right now, I honestly can't think of a better complement to my A4 than the RX-8.

Skyline Maniac

Well, I have sat in a A6, A8, but not the A4 yet. To me, the Audi interior looks very sleepy~ kind of like an antique store. If that's the definition of luxury, so be it. I like some fresh designs in a car and some flowing characteristics, inside and out. Audi makes very conservative interiors, with soft rubber, wood and all. I guess I am just not tuned to the true 'luxury' interior yet. I honestly don't know why people like Audi interior so much, personally I still prefer the Lexus interior and Mercedes when it comes to pure luxury.

That being said, I did notice that it hurts less to bang my fist inside the Audi. Seems like everything is cushy and softer, almost like a football feel to it. The G35C interior is pretty hard, dash, door panels and all. So maybe that's why people don't like it? As far as RX8 interior, I'll reserve my judgement for now. After owning a decade of Mazdas, I am not really expecting much from them, but hey~ the Millenia interior was 'alright'. (on par with the Camry, which is a good thing) We'll see. Truthfully though, when it comes to RX8, I really doubt drivers are looking for cushy Audi-like interiors. :D (light weight = good!)

MattZ

I wouldn't describe Audi's interior as "cushy", if anything, it has the tight, hard, quality German feel to it.

Skyline Maniac

Hmmmmm, I don't know about that. My friend's 2001 Audi A6 has more rattles than I can count, they were all over the place. The insulation is pretty good and the ride is nice and floaty like an buick (maybe not THAT floaty)... I don't find the interior particuarly impressive, just remembered the dash and door rubber material were 'compressible.' which is why I use the word cushy~ The leather seem thick (but so is my car, a Camry, and most entry level luxury cars) Maybe I just don't get exactly what 'premium luxury' interior is supposed to be like. It certainly isn't something as clear as cornering feel, acceleration and nimbleness you can tell immidiately.

btw: this is what I am talking about~ brainwashing. People just automaticly believe Audi has the BEST interior on the market, which I disagree with. I am not saying it's not good, I am just saying I think there are cars with much better interior designs out there. Audi is like old fashion antiques, conservative and solid, but they lack the freshness and fresh design I look for in a car.

RXhusker

All of this is so subjective -- but here's my 2 cents. I drove a 350Z for a week last Nov. (sports car rental car treat for myself) and was less than impressed with the interior. I drive a Volvo as my daily driver (until the RX arrives of course) and there is no comparision with the Z. The Z reminded me of cheap line American cars in terms of materials fit and finish. I enjoyed the rental but it sure didn't make me forget my 1st gen RX-7. Much more like driving a Mustang (for all that Nissan wants to compare the 350Z with the 911 I really think it is a much better and updated Mustang with Japanese quality and look)-- now some people really enjoy that kind of ride -- but I prefer light, quick and the jet engine turbine feel that only the rotary provides :D

Some people will love the Z , some people will love the RX :D , some people will hate both and drive around in Mustangs and some very lucky people will not care a wit and pass us all in their Lambos and Ferrari's

Danomite

Skyline, thanks for your input! It's great to be able to get someone's first hand experience with the G35, even if it is a bit biased

I think the reason I was so disappointed with the interior is that the G35 does everything else very well, but the interior really was a letdown for me. I tried to emphasize, that it LOOKS pretty good, but it feels so darn cheap. I can't quite understand why Infiniti felt it was appropriate to use real aluminum in the FX35/FX45 and not the G35.

I think that you're right in saying most Mazda interiors are not all that impressive. But I think we have to remember, most of these cars are far cheaper than any of the cars I've mentioned in this comparo. Take the Mazda 6 for example. I didn't include it here because it really is in a different class. Here in Canada, you can get a fully loaded 6 for around 33k CDN. That works out to be about 10k cheaper than the fully loaded RX-8. I expect that for 10k cheaper that the 6 will not be quite up to the standard of the RX-8.

I do agree though with you that some people probably just take it as a "given" that Audi interiors are the best. However, I think that they have earned this label for the time being. It is the same situation as people buying into BMW without really considering any of the other great cars out there. But again, I think BMW up to this point has earned the reputation for great cars (albeit overpriced).

Danomite

You're absolutely correct. This is quite subjective! But, I was hoping to hear people's opinions. So I am glad you put in your 2 cents.

pelucidor

Disclaimer - the following is my subjective opinion based on personal experience:

I agree with Skyline Maniac. I thought I was the only person on earth who didn't believe that Audi had the best interiors by any means. I have owned a first gen A4, always rent a new A4 or A6 (or MB C-class) when I visit the UK and have driven and been chauffered in A8s and Mercedes E and S-class in Europe and Asia. Compared to a Lexus LS430, SC430 or BMW 740i (old and new) that I have driven I think the A8 is very sad. It is about the same as the current S-class (not too impressive, the old S was much better and the current S will soon improve). At the cheaper end I easily prefer the luxury of a BMW 530i or Lexus ES300 or GS430 than the A6 (have driven 2.8 quattro, 3.0 quattro, 2.7t and sat in 4.2 and allroad).

At the low-end the A4 3.0 interior is very good at under $35k (have test driven 2.8 quattro and sat in 3.0 quattro), and the TT is beautiful. But there are way too many small buttons for heating and ventilation and stereo. The navigation system is pathetic. The leather is too hard - luxury is the leather in the ES300/LS430 or 740i. Heck I think the leather in the G35 is excellent and IMO better than what you get in an Audi or BMW, although I agree the G35 center tunnel is horrible, plastics of switchgear are not great and I don't like the look of the steering wheel switches and some of the ergonomics - but as an overall package the G35 is a great car for the money.

For those that think the A4 is the best luxury interior at $35k go and sit in and drive a new Lexus ES300 (the baby LS according to Lexus). I borrowed one for about a week from my dealership to 'test drive'. The quality of plastics, leather and wood as well as ergonomics is so much better than the A4 it's shocking. Admittedly you have to close your eyes as you approach the ES exterior else you might go blind, and it puts you to sleep when you drive it, but for pure luxury nothing comes close under $35k. I would never buy one of course (managed to persuade my wife against it), and magazines never compare it to the Audi because it is not sporty in any way, but the interior is better IMO.