BIMMER5&RX8

Would you rather that they put some good for nothing all-season M+S H-rated tires instead of the high performance tires? I don't think I'd like that because it will degrade the performance. When you want to drive a high-performance RWD car in the winter you should get snow tires. It is common sense. That is what the BMW drivers in the snow-belt have been doing.

We of course don't have such problems in California.

Velocity-8

Absolutely not. But I'd be thrilled with a set of Pirelli P Zero Nero that are WR rated and out perform the 040 even in Summer.

flatso

Exactly...

Sue Esponte

All drivers being equal, AWD, ASC, DSC, ABS and every other system and subsystem built into your car is only as good at protecting your car as the rubber on each wheel. All-season tires are the B students of tires...they're okay in everything but don't excel at anything in particular. If you want a great handling car in the winter, get a good winter tire. If you want to drive hard in the summer get a great performance tire.

Wear the wrong rubber and expect appropriate consequences.

I'm surprised Mazda doesn't include a waiver in the signing papers when people opt for performance tires over all-seasons. Audi got burned by not initially doing this with the TT. They settled a legal claim by offering to reimburse a very large group of buyers for the cost of winter tires. When I bought my TT I got the waiver...thus had to buy the tires on my own. Doh! :D

-Eric

G8rboy

There is not an alternative or option - you get the high performance summer tires only (at least in the US), or you get nothing.

Gord96BRG

All season tires are a compromise. They aren't as good as summer tires in summer, they aren't as good as winter tires in winter. I suppose they're OK for Camrys, Maximas, Accords, etc. where people never drive if the roads aren't plowed, etc.

However, Mazda would have looked far more stupid putting all-season tires on their premier sports car - people already focus on the acceleration performance vs. 350Z, G35C, S2000 (all factory equipped with summer tires, by the way) - can you imagine how it would have looked if they all blew away the RX-8 in handling too?

Simply put - all seasons are for people who don't mind compromising summer performance for a small safety margin if bad weather hits unexpectedly. They aren't adequate in winter anyway, and several European countries don't allow their use in winter, they require proper winter tires. Simply because they perform better and are safer.

I have had three other recent new cars (97 Contour SE, replaced by RX-8; 98 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon, replaced by 02 Audi allroad) - all were delivered with all-season tires. I used the all-seasons in summer, and installed winter tires on separate wheels in winter. Why? Because the all-seasons suck in winter, they are marginal at best. The performance of real winter tires is leagues beyond what all-seasons are capable of.

For safety and performance, winter tires are the only safe way to go in winter driving. It doesn't matter if you're talking about sports cars like the RX-8, family cars like a Maxima, or SUVs or trucks - use winter tires in winter. Now, Mazda's decision doesn't seem so bad, does it? The suitability of all-season tires is a fallacy that has been perpetrated by the auto makers and tire manufacturers over the past 20 years. People just want to cheap out - fact is, people should be expecting to have to change tires for winter driving.

Regards,
Gordon

willhave8

I actually think his statement gets to a key points in a direct way. People need to be accountable for themselves and while pehaps simplistic, the point was; if you drive in snow prone areas, have the right equipment. With a (insert high power rear wheel drive car) you need to have winter tires. If you drive in southern California, you don't.

I am not one who thinks that other people must save me from myself. I knew what I was buying. Mazda, as far as I know, never advertised the 8 to be good in snow.

IMO - Craig

Sue Esponte

Then IMHO, as sad as it might be, given recent events with other manufacturers, Mazda is remiss for not asking everyone to simply sign a waiver.

-Eric

flatso

I know that any tire design is a compromise. I just think in this day and age there are tires that give up little if any ultimate grip and at least offer some ability to drive in the snow like the before mentioned ZERO NERO's. And in this sue crazy world I am surprised the Mazda legal department would allow a car to be fitted with these type of tires as the only option. I agree we all should have the choice to get summer tires on a car like this but also the choice to get one with a bit more real world four season grip for those that don't always drive at the cars limits and wouldn't mind the slight trade off to allow driving the car year round. And a tread that last for more the 15000 miles...is that too much to ask
.

Sue Esponte

There is no such thing as a good Ultra High Performance Tire (e.g., Michelin Pilot Sport) that performs well in the snow. PERIOD.

-Eric

G8rboy

I agree having it be an option, say on the base trim, or auto trannys where performance wasn't the primary deciding factor for buying the RX8 makes some sense. However, as Gord mentioned, you're not going to get four season grip out of any all-season on a rear-wheel drive car. Mazda would still be in the same place as they are now by selling a car with tires that aren't suited for winter driving.

From a legal standpoint, it makes more sense for Mazda to sell it with summer tires, telling you they're not for winter use, than to even offer it with "all-seasons" and later having someone try to sue them when you go into a spin and kill someone. "But the the dealer said they were 'all-seasons'... how did I know I couldn't drive it up in the mountains during a blizzard"

Baller

Just on the top's of my palm trees......looked nice.......

Baller

And remember we have California girls...

Trx8

My dealer told me about tires, but I knew it from here anyway. My dealer wants to get a set of snows for winter test drives, but hasn't yet. I bought my car in late Jan04 when tires were in short supply. I bought 17" wheels and snows from TireRack and made that installation part of the terms for buying the car. I have never driven the car with the stock tires.

I could have bought UHP A/S, but then I would be in the compromise mode, and that wasn't something I wanted ponder if my RX-8 ended up off the road in a snow bank (or worse). Its now March, spring is around the corner, and we just had icy roads earlier this week.

Elara

I agree- between his post and Gord's the whole thing has been summed up pretty well. I think the big question is why didn't Mazda give us DECENT summer tires instead of the Bridgestones they did give us (at least in the US).

G8rboy

Elara brings up a good point- Us Miata owners have been bitchin' about the Potenza's for years for grip and treadwear... which performance tires do other sports/sporty cars in the '8's class come with(350z/G35C/S2000/STi/Evo)?

D MENAC 7

:P pttttttttttttt! :D

I'm beyond girls, I have a WOMAN!

D MENAC 7

I'm almost positive that the 350Z has the exact same tires. (But, I could be wrong and I am sure that if I am, some very knowledgeable Forum member will come along and point this out! :D)

D MENAC 7

Damn, still 18 post behind G8rboy....LOL

Baller

Girls are cooooooool!!!!!

Omicron

I usually agree with you Gord, but not this time. What you are saying used to be the case, but is no longer with the new breed of "Ultra High Performance" All-Season tires. The stock Potenzas are allegedly a very good summer tire - not the best, but still very good. I just put a set of Pirelli PZero Nero M+S UHP All seasons on my car, and they are a far cry better then the Potenzas on dry roads.

There is no reason Mazda couldn't offer these (or similar) tires on the '8 for those of us who need them, with no loss of face. Just my 2 cents.

Omicron

I disagree. I'm driving on proof that there are indeed UHP all-season tires that do well in the snow.

KKMmaniac

G8rboy, Elara, Gord96BRG, others: good points!

Just some personal observations:

'95 Impreza 2.2l: Went fine in the snow (again mostly due to AWD) with stock (195/60-15) Bridgestones that were siped. But in the summer, Dunlop Sport W-10 205/50-16's on alloy wheels improved an otherwise stock car's handling and steering response quite a bit.


WRX: Probably wouldn't have had that vague, non-crisp turn-in and wait for the back end to catch up with the front feeling fitted with some good summer performance tires. (In the summer, that is) Because of AWD, it hooked up pretty well in the snow just with all-season tires.


The RX8: Although the RE040's have been panned here, I'm pretty anxious to get them back on, after driving all winter on the squishy WS-50 Blizzaks. However, squishy as they are, they allowed the car to go through some amazingly deep snow and slippery ice. They take a bit to hook up when accelerating from a stop, but with them, the RX8 has very neutral and predictable handling characteristics in snow. And it's fun purposely breaking that back end loose when you want to!

All-season radials on the RX8 might work pretty well in snow if you could get a narrower size to fit on the car, but ya can't.

I decided to pass on the traction control and DSC and put some of that money into a winter tire package, which I would have bought anyway. So far, no regrets.

Velocity-8

Yeah, what Omicron said!

I would LOVE to see a real test between the 040 and the Nero. I know where I'd place my bet.

BillK

IMHO, that's much much too harsh.

Most drivers will be able to get through most snowfalls just fine with HPAS tires; your car will certainly not handle as well as with dedicated snows, but it won't slide off the road at speed above 5 MPH as would be the case if you tried driving in snow with the stock summer tires...