khtm

BTW, don't take anything I'm saying personally, guys - I just like to debate and often come across as an *******. I should probably stop anyways as I'm getting off topic.

spork

A college degree definitely is not worth more than experience. Experience is far better than a degree. So why get the degree? Simply the degree can act like experience. When you apply for a job for the first time you're competeing against other people with no work experience but a college degree.

Who do you think the employer will eliminate first (if they have a lot of applicants and need to decide who to grant interviews to)? The jobs that employers don't take education into consideration for are generally lower paying jobs.

Experience is much more important than a college education BUT to get the first job, an education will help a lot.

khtm

Good point. I definitely agree. There's obviously some driving force behind why some people go the post-secondary route and why some people don't.

khtm

Well I guess we're in similar fields. I have a computer engineering degree, specialized in hardware design, but now do software development. You make a good point though...software-related fields are in a grey area because there's many people that have no formal schooling and are just plain geniuses when it comes to code. To tell you the truth, I definitely learned more languages by self-teaching and just messing around than by taking classes.

But again...it's frickin' hard to get a decent software development job without any formal education. You'd have to BEG for an interview and then wow someone with your maddd codemonkey skillzzzz.

mysql101

I didn't say it in my posts because it's something that is "understood", but a college degree unlocks some doors that would otherwise be shut. I never said don't get a degree, or a degree is bad for you - in fact my first post on this thread said the original poster should go back to school because $18/hour sucks, and isn't worth skipping college for. But not all situations are equal, I would be hard pressed to find the time to go back to college in this point of my life (I'm about to turn 27), but more than that, a college degree wouldn't help me earn more money. I already make more than the majority with a degree in my field.

btw, I have a friend who is a doctor... he's working on his third masters or some wacky thing. I am pretty sure he has a PHD already. He's in his mid 30's and still attending college. I wonder if he just doesn't want to ever quit school.

dmp

Where we differ is, I'm not saying society shouldn't emphasize 'education' - I'm saying society shouldn't emphasize 'a Degree'...a 'diploma'...a 'piece of paper'. I know plenty of guys with more than one degree who can't think their way past trivial problems like, which way to insert a floppy disc. What you learned from the university can be taught elsewhere...say, the Peace Corps? etc.






I don't think I could argue against that. To me, $100,000k a year = wealthy. I could get to $100k per year w/o having a degree. Of course, $100k a year in SOME areas = about $25K a year in the area I live in...Cost of Living can be a bitch. ESPECIALLY in a socialist country :p

hehe...just pokin' at ya...

alphapenguin

You want an education and experience.
It's hard to get a job without a degree.
It's hard to get a job without or experience.
To get experience you need that damn job.
You dont need (as much) experience to go to school.

something I always thought that was interesting. When I was applying for co-ops, and other jobs before, they always liked to see experience in a work setting, but how am I going to get it if they dont hire me due to lack of experience. Hence I worked some crappy jobs here and there (in highschool and in college). And, for some reason, it seemed that people rather not higher people in highschool (or maybe it was just me). I applied to a DQ and a Hall Mark 7 years ago, and they never got back to me. What the heck! ok off topic.

Nick

I think the point that everyone "anti-education" is trying to get across is that those exact things can be learned elsewhere... In a job experience, in the army, etc. I know I learned those things, and many other priceless things when I put my education on hold while I was in Australia for two years, and I was just being a missionary for my church.

khtm

hahahaha...I actually laughed out loud when I read that socialist comment...some guy walking by gave me a weird look

khtm

Maybe, maybe not. A lot of people that think you can learn that stuff in the workplace have never been to college/university so they have nothing to base their opinion on. Find me someone that has a college eduation (not an arts degree) AND has work experience and see if they'll say they could have learned everything they know JUST from working.

khtm

All this talk about work made me realize I haven't done much work today. I'm out. Sorry to hijack your thread, BMW_Man

Nick

By the way, I totally support pursuing what you call a "profession"... In my opinion, considering the amount of time we spend working in our lives, a career will be much more fulfilling than a simple "job" that we just attend, day-in, day-out.

College is the most common path to a profession, but in many ways leaves you unprepared for the workplace. I know that my schooling so far has never matched what I've learned in my job. (I also am a software developer, and a sophomore, majoring in Computer Science, some day )

dmp

I bet I could put you in contact with about 1000 Army Lieutennants who could say their college courses taught them NOTHING about being Infantry Officers...or, that everything they have learned AS an infantry officer could be taught outside a college setting.

Paul_in_DC

*Shakes head and sighs*

You can't work for my company without a degree. (Wait, I take that back... the janitors don't need degrees, but nevertheless...)

Degrees open doors. For some professions they're the ONLY thing that opens doors. It's far more than the initial education you get. A degree proves that you have the intelligence and tenacity to meet major long-term goals. They prove you have the breadth of knowledge to do more than one thing well.

Yes, there are people with no degree who make big bucks. They are the exception, and pointing to them as an example is a cop-out. ANY financial planner will tell you that people with degrees average much higher salaries that those without them.

If you have the chance to continue college, for God's sake go for it. It provides many benefits as people have discussed here. And it certainly can't hurt you. But if you choose to limit your education, you choose to limit your opportunities. And being limited to working in a job that's far below your potential may confine you to a painfully boring existence.

mysql101

A degree doesn't prove anything other than you went to school. I've had some EXTREMELY dumb people interviewed for jobs they had no business interviewing for who had degrees. In fact, if I didn't know better, I'd say they were high school drop outs.

Saying a degree means an individual is smart, has long term goals, has intelligence, etc. is an over generalization as well. There are no universals.

As I said before, a degree doesn't mean much else besides a person is proven to be able to be trained, or enough that they can be told how to do something then fill out papers with the proper responses. A person who tends to go to college also tends to be someone who is driven to do more and not just sit back collecting welfare or working at McDonalds. You're just reading more into the statistics than you should be.

Paul_in_DC

There's a big difference between just going to school and getting a degree. And I've interviewed some educated people with no common sense as well (we'll call you...) But the simple fact is that for professional careers, someone with a degree is a better bet than someone without.

True, it's not universally true. But it's true the vast majority of the time.

I highlighted the most important word there - proven. The person has a proven level of intelligence, responsibility, etc. I don't deal with statistics when hiring people - I deal with people. I need a self-starter who has the responsibility to finish what he/she starts, and isn't some "monkey-see, monkey-do" machine who has to be constantly shown what to do. In such an environment, a degreed person is a better bet.

dmp

*cough*BillGates*cough*

dmp

I'll paraphrase a joke I read in Reader's Digest...

A young man, fresh out of the Army, and back from Iraq, was applying to a college's Golf program; he wanted to be a golf-course manager. When applying for the program, he was asked, "Are you sure you want this? You'll have to deal with bugs and heat, and upset people at times..."

His reply, "Will there be people shooting at me, as I work?"

"No." came the answer.

"I'll do it, then".

;-)

I'd wager one who has spent 4 years in the Military has MORE (if we could measure) of the skills you claim to look for in a new-hire. Much more.


[edit] I have to edit and say, Going to class is NOT 'proven responsibility'. Accounting for the lives of your comrades, IS 'proven responsibility'.

khtm

Just got on lunch break...

one comment.

Why, when having discussions with Americans does the Army/Military/Navy ALWAYS come up?

It's like when you're talking to a girl you meet, and if she has a boyfriend she'll just HAVE to bring it into the conversation. Like... "Oh, my boyfriend has a shirt just like that!"...sigh

PS. My buddies from highschool that went into the Canadian *cough* *cough* military, are some of the dumbest, racist, most meat-headed guys I've ever met. When ever I meet up with them and go to a bar they always end up fighting.. Yeah, I'd REALLY want to work with these guys. They are TOP NOTCH Not saying that everyone in the army is like this...my dad was in vietnam and he seems kinda normal.

czr

iTrader: (3)

Severly depends on the job he is hiring for. Half of the kids in my class chose the military because they were too lazy or not smart enough for school.

TODreamer

Degrees also close minds.... and having a degree doesnt necessarily mean you are "intelligent"... it just means that you PROBABLY have reasonably "acceptable" work ethic.


But guys... I think you guys are missing things here... this guy's dad has a Z8!?!?!!???!

Something is telling me that this guy's life and "privalege" isnt quite like most of ours. Hence, issues that are pertinent to us arent quite as such to him.....or so he thinks

oh well its his life

khtm

Do you have a degree?

dmp

Oh.
My.
God.

Uh...wow. Joining the Military because they were LAZY? Lmao... I bet they aren't lazy anymore

wierd.

dmp

tis because it's likely the 'other' popular decision...it's a great alternative, or just a way to grow up BEFORE college.

And I saw the canadian army down here a few weeks ago...yup..Both of them.

:D

Nick

Whuppa-chang!!