If the Rotary is such a Great Engine..........
11-14-2008, 10:08 PM
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If the Rotary is such a Great Engine..........
.......then why does Mazda only feature it in one car in North America?
Why not other models?
Why not other models?
11-14-2008, 10:33 PM
#5
Because it was too difficult to get it "right" 40 yrs ago. Many companies gave up, including big boys like Mercedes and Toyota.
and now, its too late to catch up. because technology is not something that u can get it in 1 day. yes u can throw **** loads of money into the R&D, but TIME is the problem.
Piston works for everybody and development is still going. who wants to take the risk to start another line nowdays ?
and now, its too late to catch up. because technology is not something that u can get it in 1 day. yes u can throw **** loads of money into the R&D, but TIME is the problem.
Piston works for everybody and development is still going. who wants to take the risk to start another line nowdays ?
11-15-2008, 02:08 AM
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It makes sense as a sports car engine; but as a mainstream engine it's advantages of lightweight and packaging are more than offset by it's inferior fuel consumption and perceived quality deficiency* because it requires oil to be injected.
*Look around and you'll see that people still think there's something wrong with the engine because it uses oil, even though that's by design.
*Look around and you'll see that people still think there's something wrong with the engine because it uses oil, even though that's by design.
11-15-2008, 07:01 AM
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Vtak just kicked in yo!!
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Its their halo car, its a special engine for the RX line that is still in development to improve fuel economy and emissions. Although this engine is very old and has come a long way, it is no where close to *perfect*. I think that if/when they find a way to get 25+mpg COMBINED out of a rotary with more power that can reliably run 150K+ with a 100K mile powertrain out of the box, then they MAY consider putting it back into other vehicles.
Until then, itll be the engine that is far and in between in rare high maintenance niche cars
Until then, itll be the engine that is far and in between in rare high maintenance niche cars
11-15-2008, 10:51 AM
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Good points.
My reasonings are:
* It makes no sense to put a performance/sports car engine into the other Mazada lines. Putting a rotary into other Mazda cars, Mazda would have to re-engineer too many aspects of that car; new engine compartment, better brakes, shocks, redesign, better performance/safety features to match the engine.
You do that to the Mazda 3, the base price will jump, and make it no longer an affordable entry car. This also has to do with the 50/50 weight distribution.
*There are several different piston engines, but only one rotary. You can't just plunk down a 20b into their minivan. It isn't designed for that. And a 20B would take away the option, profitable for Mazda, of upconverting the Mazda 3 to the Mazdaspeed 3 engine.
*Mazda would have to come up with several versions of the rotary to fit it in each Mazda line. For now, the rotary is a work in process. R&D is working to improve the next version of a rotary. If Mazda were to start developing different sized rotaries for different cars, that would probably dilute the R&D and advancement.
*Why would anything other than an 8 need a 8500 rpm redline?
My reasonings are:
* It makes no sense to put a performance/sports car engine into the other Mazada lines. Putting a rotary into other Mazda cars, Mazda would have to re-engineer too many aspects of that car; new engine compartment, better brakes, shocks, redesign, better performance/safety features to match the engine.
You do that to the Mazda 3, the base price will jump, and make it no longer an affordable entry car. This also has to do with the 50/50 weight distribution.
*There are several different piston engines, but only one rotary. You can't just plunk down a 20b into their minivan. It isn't designed for that. And a 20B would take away the option, profitable for Mazda, of upconverting the Mazda 3 to the Mazdaspeed 3 engine.
*Mazda would have to come up with several versions of the rotary to fit it in each Mazda line. For now, the rotary is a work in process. R&D is working to improve the next version of a rotary. If Mazda were to start developing different sized rotaries for different cars, that would probably dilute the R&D and advancement.
*Why would anything other than an 8 need a 8500 rpm redline?
Last edited by To be named later; 11-15-2008 at 10:54 AM.
11-15-2008, 02:25 PM
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The Rotary engine is a more elegant and simpler design then a piston engine. It's not necessarily more efficient, practical, or reliable in an automotive platform like we have today. If the rotary had the same number of man hours of development invested in it, It would probably be competitive with piston engines in terms of efficiency and reliability.
Ultimately, if you can't look at a piston engine, then a rotary, and intuitively understand why the rotary is so great, I'm really not sure I can make you understand... It's kind of a zen thing.
Ultimately, if you can't look at a piston engine, then a rotary, and intuitively understand why the rotary is so great, I'm really not sure I can make you understand... It's kind of a zen thing.
11-15-2008, 04:08 PM
#16
Rotary Powered Countryboy
I also believe it is just not practical to put in a car that your regular soccer mom is going to drive.....most ppl (excluding enthusiasts) get in the car drive where they need to go and shut it off not checking oil anything and they rarely change the oil or tires etc so if they put an engine in a vehicle that needs a little more care then they would just have too many warranty issues with more probs than the 8's have
11-15-2008, 04:10 PM
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I also believe it is just not practical to put in a car that your regular soccer mom is going to drive.....most ppl (excluding enthusiasts) get in the car drive where they need to go and shut it off not checking oil anything and they rarely change the oil or tires etc so if they put an engine in a vehicle that needs a little more care then they would just have too many warranty issues with more probs than the 8's have
11-15-2008, 05:12 PM
#20
There was a time when Mazda put rotaries in their full line of cars. But the oil crisis of the 70s put an end to that.
It really comes down to fuel economy and practicality. It has been successful in sports cars and race cars because those two things don't matter as much, while the advantages of the rotary matter a great deal.
Mazda does it for prestige rather than profit: rotary engines are their special thing that no one else has. And other car companies won't spend the R&D money to develop their own rotary engines because, really, there's no profit in doing so...it would just be money down the drain.
Mazda seems to think that it has an ace up its sleeve with the ability of the Renesis to run on hydrogen, but there's no telling if/when hydrogen cars will catch on.
There's a lot of buzz about using rotary engines in aircraft (light weight, can take high RPMs without falling apart, can continue running with a blown apex seal with enough power to land, etc.) but I don't think that anyone is making them for aircraft and they aren't approved by the FAA for commercial use. Right now it's confined to people putting Mazda rotaries into experimental aircraft, I think.
There was a time when it was thought that the rotary engine would be the engine of the future. That hasn't happened yet, but who knows, maybe some day.
It really comes down to fuel economy and practicality. It has been successful in sports cars and race cars because those two things don't matter as much, while the advantages of the rotary matter a great deal.
Mazda does it for prestige rather than profit: rotary engines are their special thing that no one else has. And other car companies won't spend the R&D money to develop their own rotary engines because, really, there's no profit in doing so...it would just be money down the drain.
Mazda seems to think that it has an ace up its sleeve with the ability of the Renesis to run on hydrogen, but there's no telling if/when hydrogen cars will catch on.
There's a lot of buzz about using rotary engines in aircraft (light weight, can take high RPMs without falling apart, can continue running with a blown apex seal with enough power to land, etc.) but I don't think that anyone is making them for aircraft and they aren't approved by the FAA for commercial use. Right now it's confined to people putting Mazda rotaries into experimental aircraft, I think.
There was a time when it was thought that the rotary engine would be the engine of the future. That hasn't happened yet, but who knows, maybe some day.
11-15-2008, 05:39 PM
#21
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11-15-2008, 06:34 PM
#22
The anti-ricer
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An LSx has gone into the GTO, SSR, Trail Blazer SS, G8, CTS-V, Corvette, and new Camaro all at the same time, not to mention many others in the past.
11-15-2008, 11:56 PM
#23
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Right, and arguably all of these cars are intended to be sporty in nature...making the LSx equivalent to the rotary in Mazda's lineup. Nitpicky I know, but I think the comparison is accurate.
11-16-2008, 10:47 AM
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Here's a link to a write-up from last summer.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/06...ting-in-japan/
I sure hope Mazda has the resources to produce a rotary hybrid, even a minivan running on hydrocarbons. It would be quite a feather in the corporate cap!