SORRY FOR THE CAPS BUT THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!

I JUST TALKED TO MY MASTER TECH ABOUT THE "L" FLASH. AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ALL THE OWNERS ON THIS FORUM THAT WERE DOING THE "BRAKE" TEST(PRESSING BRAKE PEDAL 20 TIMES TO CHECK FOR THE REFLASH) STOP DOING THIS!! YOU ARE DAMAGING YOUR CAR!!! WHAT THAT DOES IS RESET THE PCM BACK TO ORIGINAL MEMORY, THERE WAS A BULLETIN RELEASED TO DEALERS ABOUT DOING THAT WHENEVER WE REPLACE THE ENGINE! WHAT IT DOES IS RESET THE PCM BACK TO ZERO. LET ME TRY TO EXPLAIN IT LIKE MY TECH DID:

THE PCM TAKES YOUR EVERYDAY DRIVING AND MAKES LIKE LITTLE BLOCKS OUT OF IT, THEN IT AVERAGES ALL THE INFORMATION AND HELPS GET THE MOST OUT OF THE ENGINE AND RELATED PARTS. FOR EXAMPLE IF YOU DRIVE EVERYDAY IN STOP AND GO TRAFFIC IT READS THAT AND WILL HELP COMPENSATE FOR THAT TYPE OF DRIVING, IT ALSO HELPS WITH FURTHER REFLASHES AND ALSO OTHER TECH RELATED INFORMATION NEEDED IN YOUR CAR, NOW IF YOU RESET IT IT THINKS YOU HAVE A BRAND NEW CAR WITH ZERO MILES AND A BRAND NEW ENGINE AND IT WILL START WITHY THAT INFO.

IF YOU ALREADY DID THE "BRAKE TEST" THEN THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. BUT IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE IT. DON'T!

DO NOT DO IT!! IT CAN CAUSE MAJOR PROBLEMS!!

 

roger that ibfubar, thanks, time will tell.

 

I thought everyone already knew this.. It was in the "eccentric shaft" service bullitin.. Didn't think it was a big deal for the car to relearn though.

 

I think you might be over reacting a bit. Your car won't be any worse off then it was when you were brand new. You've simply gone from optimal to default. It will just take a while before it has a enough valid data again.

In fact, if there was a major change in your driving, say you moved, or got a new job and therefore commute differently, you might want to start over again.

 

Then why does the Tech. b. say "to confirm L reflash do the test"

 

i would think it's ok to do the needle sweep test. the car will relearn what it used to know. my car is running better since the reflash and test.

 

I don't see how you can "damage" your car by doing this but I would agree if you said that the car would not run optimally until it has had a chance to relearn your driving style.

 

Calm down there, ibfubar2000.

Not only will a PCM reset do no damage, anything your car is going to learn, it learns in the 2 minutes after you start the car and drive it two times consecutively.

Thats right. Start the car and drive it twice. You are now right back to where you were before you reset it, minus any bad habits.

 

Agreed- especially since most of us are doing this just once after a re-flash to verify the dealer did what they said. I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing that 'learned' data stored in NVRAM went bye-bye when the reflash was performed, so the relearning process was restarted anyway.

 

I don't think there's a problem with this. If you sit everyday in stop and go driving, and then on saturday want to go out and have some fun, the computer has not been optimized for this type of spirited driving, it's used to stop and go. Resetting it would force it to re-learn...not a huge problem...

 

Nope, wrong. If you reset it, it thinks you have a base fuel/timing map, with no learned revisions. That's all, and no big deal. What do you think happened when the tech installed the "L" PCM flash? Right, it had the base map installed. All the reset does is remove any learned revisions and set the map back to default. Often, this is beneficial, but never harmful. As for zero miles and brand new engine - nope. The PCM tuning shouldn't care about these or treat the engine any differently. If the PCM did actually care about mileage, it would just read the odometer!

Regards,
Gordon

 

Seeing this, would it be possible that the L reflash is actually nothing more than what the TSB said; and that the improvements that were perceived were actually caused by resetting the PCM?

 

wow interesting insight, thats a good question. but people have said they have had an improvement, i personally have not done the flash yet, i will probably do next week when i do my next service.

 

I called Mazda and asked for specific answers about whether there was an L reflash for the automatic, and if so, whether I could get an L reflash. The rep put me on hold for a while to get an answer -- some vague stuff including a statement that Mazda was still experimenting -- and then said she would do more research and call me back. The day is over; no call.
My own dealer, and a Virginia dealer I called, both had the same story: Dealers are supposed to send specific info on each car to Mazda in California, and they are told whether to do a reflash or not. My dealer said the answer was no. I had reported terrible mileage, but no other malfunction. I'll see next week whether the VA dealer gets the same reaction.

 

I just slipped my service writer a 50 and he will do what ever I want.....My re-call and re-flash took 3 days.....and it seems my car is slower......

The Baller

 

Well I got the "L" flash today... the clincher? I told them that my wife flooded the car but I was able to use the de-flooding procedure to get it running again.

Car feels different for sure, nice and smooth, a little more umph when shifting.

 

I used to have a Ford SVT and one of my buddies was the local Ford dealer SVT specialist (real deal - factory trained). When we were out to have some fun we would literally drive like maniacs taking the cars up through near redline shifts and back down again for a few minutes to learn our style. Never tested it at the track, but even if it didn't really teach the computer much it was fun.

 

I tried the "test" last week to see if the oil pressure needle would move. It didn't. When I took the car in for the recalls, I asked the tech about the L flash and he said, "oh, it's been running rough?" "Ok, we'll take care of it." I haven't tried the test since and don't intend to as the car seems to run smoother and accelerate with a lttle more umph, according to the 'ol butt meter.

 

I don't get this whole "learning" thing. What exactly does this car think it is "learning"? I don't always drive the same route, the same speed, or the same style. Sometimes it's not me driving at all. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing the darned car needs to "know" is how far down my freaking foot is on the gas pedal now.

As QuickDraw McGraw was fond of saying: "I'll do all the thinnin' around here"!

[/retro-rant]

Given that the car's going to try to "learn", I still don't understand the logic behind warning someone that resetting the profile to factory default puts you in imminent danger of having problems. It's like you're saying "Oh, no you really don't want to drive the car the way it comes from the factory" The fact that it's a "Tech Master" promoting such a logical fallacy is truly disheartening.

 

The car doesn't "learn" anything, per se.

The PCMs are all the same.
However, the gas, atmosphere and RX-8 itself are all different.
The sensor sets all have manufacturing tolerances and the variable that go into combustion add up to variations that need to be accounted for if the car is to run with optimum reliability, drivability and power.

The PCM has several values that it uses to compute fuel and spark delivery that are variable and dependant on some evaluations that are made the first two times you drive the vehicle after the PCM has been reset to the factory default settings.
It figures those things out in relation to the quality of your gas and air and that is it. Done.

 

I'm not sure I follow this. If what you are saying is true, what happens if, after the two times I drive the car, I drive to a place where the air/atmosphere and/or the gas quality is/are different?

 

I read through the TSB again because I remembered it having the tech do 2 drives in the car, the Mode 1 and Mode 3. Mode 1 is listed as the "PCM Adaptive Memory Produce Drive Mode" which makes since with teaching the car the environment. Most reflash functions tend to wipe the memory in the process.

From a programing side you are also taking some risks making the assumption that the memory is good when you reboot after software load.

The only thing bad I could see this do is put you back in breakin mode which maybe occuring on everybodies car anyway. I'm just guessing so I could be totaly wrong, just my thoughts.

 

Let's just say I have it on good authority that an "L" flashed car will run off and leave a "K" flashed car after BOTH have had the "keep alive memory" reset (the brake pedal reset tool). After also flashing the "K" car to an "L", it would now run even with the first car.

Test conducted by "knowledgeable and experienced" people who all work on, and sell, Mazda's for a living.

The "L" flash is so much smoother than the "K", and the car seems to respond to the throttle a little bit quicker. Kudos to Mazda for doing their homework on this one.

 

Oh, I forgot.

My damper recall, my airbag recall, and the "L" flash, all together took about 45 minutes.

It's nice to have good people to work with...

 

My tech said I wasn't eligible for even the "K" reflash. How many, if any, of the first VIN owners have had theirs reflashed to either "K" or "L" and what are your results? (I'm vin 01129 from the first week deliveries began in the US)