Inventor accidently ignites saltwater with radiowaves.
12-17-2007, 08:24 AM
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Inventor accidently ignites saltwater with radiowaves.
Will it lead to on board hydrogen fuel synthesis in cars?
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science...cbccdrcrd.html
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science...cbccdrcrd.html
12-17-2007, 12:35 PM
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This is the also the same guy that was trying to kill cancer by putting silver into your body that attaches to the cancer cells and ignite them with the radio waves. Interesting stuff.
12-17-2007, 02:44 PM
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12-17-2007, 09:38 PM
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12-17-2007, 09:58 PM
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Um, you cant beat Thermo. The three laws in a nutshell.
1) You can't win.
2) You can't even break even.
3) You are not allowed to quit.
That means that the energy you put in to get the hydrogen was AT LEAST equal to, plus a little entropy, the energy that you get out. That means you might as well used the energy you used to generate the radio waves to get you to where you were going.
Now if you could get the radio waves for free...
This is still cool chemistry. Just not the answer to all our ills.
1) You can't win.
2) You can't even break even.
3) You are not allowed to quit.
That means that the energy you put in to get the hydrogen was AT LEAST equal to, plus a little entropy, the energy that you get out. That means you might as well used the energy you used to generate the radio waves to get you to where you were going.
Now if you could get the radio waves for free...
This is still cool chemistry. Just not the answer to all our ills.
12-17-2007, 10:37 PM
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It isn't the hyrdogen I suspect causing the flame..
It is the sodium in the salt.. That actually ingnites that way when sodium hits water..
The waves must be breaking the bonds of the sodium chloride.
They do the test with just water and nothing happens.. They add salt and tada fire.
It is the sodium in the salt.. That actually ingnites that way when sodium hits water..
The waves must be breaking the bonds of the sodium chloride.
They do the test with just water and nothing happens.. They add salt and tada fire.
12-17-2007, 10:41 PM
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It isn't the hyrdogen I suspect causing the flame..
It is the sodium in the salt.. That actually ingnites that way when sodium hits water..
The waves must be breaking the bonds of the sodium chloride.
They do the test with just water and nothing happens.. They add salt and tada fire.
It is the sodium in the salt.. That actually ingnites that way when sodium hits water..
The waves must be breaking the bonds of the sodium chloride.
They do the test with just water and nothing happens.. They add salt and tada fire.
So no. You fail.
12-20-2007, 01:03 AM
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Simply looking at the flame spectrum would tell exactly what is being burned.
Interesting process. And as long as Pons & Flieshmann have nothing to do with it, perhaps a grant isn't completely out of the question.
Interesting process. And as long as Pons & Flieshmann have nothing to do with it, perhaps a grant isn't completely out of the question.
12-20-2007, 07:47 AM
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Another person trying to be smarter than they are... Good thing you looked that up.
12-20-2007, 08:03 AM
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If salt water can burn it's just a matter of finding a cheap source for ignition. I guess it could be another source or process other than radiowaves. Someday maybe.
12-20-2007, 09:29 AM
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Ever since the story of the radio-electrolysis came out dozens of amatuer inventors have been trying to find the Holy Grail to hydrogen production. Someone else said it already; nothing is free and it takes more energy in then you'll get out.
It works kind of like the way an Atomic Clock works. Each atom has a specific revolution period for the electrons in the outer shell. When matter gets hotter they don't change that orbital period, the radius from the center increases.
A Cesium Beam Oscillator (Atomic Clock) has passes a stream of Cesium gas through a chamber that has a frequency of 9192 MHZ in a phase locked loop (drifts slightly up and slightly down). When the radio wave is exactly in synch with the orbital period the Cesium sheds electrons - ionizes. That ionization burst is measured and the frequency is cast as a reference to an onboard temp controlled 5MHZ oscillator.
The same type of thing is happening with water. A resonant frequency for hydrogen or oxygen will ionize either one and water seperates into the components of hydogen and oxygen.
Some of the aforementioned amateur inventors have learned that by using a DC wave with standard electrolysis tends to increase the production rate with a given size of plates however thats due to shedding the bubbles that form on the plates.
Oh yeah, you need salts our some kind of non-neutral valence material to conduct the ioniztion. Contrary to popular belief pure water is not electrically conductive it takes impurities to conduct.
RG will be pleased to hear that.
The jury is still out on how far hydrogen will go as a fuel. It may never become practical for automobiles, or it may be the fuel of choice for the 21st century.
You can be sure that over the coming years tens maybe hundreds of billions will be dumped into the hydrogen fuel technology investment.
It works kind of like the way an Atomic Clock works. Each atom has a specific revolution period for the electrons in the outer shell. When matter gets hotter they don't change that orbital period, the radius from the center increases.
A Cesium Beam Oscillator (Atomic Clock) has passes a stream of Cesium gas through a chamber that has a frequency of 9192 MHZ in a phase locked loop (drifts slightly up and slightly down). When the radio wave is exactly in synch with the orbital period the Cesium sheds electrons - ionizes. That ionization burst is measured and the frequency is cast as a reference to an onboard temp controlled 5MHZ oscillator.
The same type of thing is happening with water. A resonant frequency for hydrogen or oxygen will ionize either one and water seperates into the components of hydogen and oxygen.
Some of the aforementioned amateur inventors have learned that by using a DC wave with standard electrolysis tends to increase the production rate with a given size of plates however thats due to shedding the bubbles that form on the plates.
Oh yeah, you need salts our some kind of non-neutral valence material to conduct the ioniztion. Contrary to popular belief pure water is not electrically conductive it takes impurities to conduct.
RG will be pleased to hear that.
The jury is still out on how far hydrogen will go as a fuel. It may never become practical for automobiles, or it may be the fuel of choice for the 21st century.
You can be sure that over the coming years tens maybe hundreds of billions will be dumped into the hydrogen fuel technology investment.
01-03-2008, 07:36 AM
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^+10
What you are trying to say is that after you excite electrons in sodium to a higher state, they fall back to groundstate and emit a charachteristic yellow color. THis is not necessarily "burning" per se (you can pass an arc through Na vapor and get the same light) and is not indicative for the stated question.
No, just a WHOLE LOT smarter than you. Dumbass (Duh, it is the flame, duh). And I didn't look it up; it is common knowledge to anyone with half a brain.
What you are trying to say is that after you excite electrons in sodium to a higher state, they fall back to groundstate and emit a charachteristic yellow color. THis is not necessarily "burning" per se (you can pass an arc through Na vapor and get the same light) and is not indicative for the stated question.
No, just a WHOLE LOT smarter than you. Dumbass (Duh, it is the flame, duh). And I didn't look it up; it is common knowledge to anyone with half a brain.
01-03-2008, 07:38 PM
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That just means you have to use conventional water. Synthetic water will never work as well! If RP ever makes water, people are going to blow up their hydrogen engines!
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