ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

hmm, any canadian owners care to put their rx-8 on a dyno?

canzoomer

You know what they say about Ford?

"They circle their mistakes"

RX-8 Zoomster

I agree. I think we'll see the recovered HP from Mazda. At least from third-party manufacturers.

As a matter of fact, as I stated in one of my earlier posts on this thread or another (don't remember now), I think the 280HP that was present, with the same engine, on the RX-EVOLV concept is still there. It just being harnessed and needs to be unleashed. I think you'll definately see that from after-factory mods.

THOR

The fact that the European spec RX-8 is rated at 228 hp in the latest Evo magazine from England should be noted. If the RX-8 is making 175 wheel horsepower on a dynojet dyno and 157 wheel horsepower on a dyno dynamics dyno then this leads me to beleive that the car is only delivering around 210 horsepower to the flywheel. 115 pound foot of torque at the wheels at 6300 rpm is not very impressive either, and certainly not what was quoted by Mazda.
Overall Mazda has once again screwed the pooch and the fact that they are not offering to fix the lost horsepower and once again throwing $500 to owners is quite pathetic. What happened to the 280 horsepower this motor was making in pre-production cars? Thank goodness the new RX-7 will have a 1.6 litre motor as it is "rated" at 300 horsepower. Perhaps that motor will make the 250 horsepower this Renesis is rated at.

But we will probably never get to see the RX-7 as the RX-8 will likely die a quick death because of this scandal. The 6 speed RX-8 is not making 250 or even 239 horsepower, but 210 just like the automatic. That is unacceptable and Mazda should find the missing ponies. Or tell everyone that it made a huge mistake and drop the price $5000 and try to sell it as a 210 horsepower car. That would at least be honest.

Thor.

msrecant

For RX-8 owners:

If you loved your RX-8 yesterday there is no reason to love it any less today. Its looks, performance and reliability are still the same.

If you don't like the car, you just received a gift from heaven (a $0 out).


For RX-8 owners-to-be:

Wait for your test-drive. Unless you plan to use the car in competition, I will bet you will never miss those 9HP. The car still performs as well as all those reviews you have been reading.


My opinion, for consideration:

I have owned Mazda rotary products for over 30 years and have never been delt with unethically. The proposed settlement is actually more than fair compensation for something that is technically missleading but has liittle actual product impact.

canzoomer

After I get about 3,000km on mine I plan to.

I am also not going to accept the offer of free service and $500

The offer is in the USA where they get:

An extra year of warranty.
4 years in USA, whereas in Canada we get 3.

$500 USD is worth $705 Canadian as of todays exchange rates.

I feel, they are going to have to do better than this.

The deficiencies are worth more than that first offer.

We are in the drivers seat in this negotiation, people.
They have been caught at an act of dishonesty, so please, let's not just pee all over our feet and say "Ooh, we caught them and they admitted it, AND we get a few dollars back, isn't that nice?"

That power level takes this car out of the $40,000 class and drops it into the Toyota Celica GT-S class.

The Toyota Celica GT is a $33,245 car, Canadian list.

I picked Toyota, as they are the most expensive brand of Japanese cars in Canada, and are even being investigated for price fixing.
http://adserver.dnps.com/html.ng/Sit...Topic=Industry

Lensman

There's one illogical conclusion floating around:
If the car was reprogrammed at the port to meet US emissions laws and as a result the power of the Renesis dropped then why are Mazda standing by the performance figures that were achieved with the pre-production cars? Either they know that legally they can take the hit if 0-60 in 5.9 is false OR the engine WASN'T remapped and was simply described wrongly by Mazda's marketing department. But if the latter is the case then why is the engine still 247bhp in Japan and Canada? There are logical flaws all through this situation and not enough answers (like WHY is the car low on bhp?).

canzoomer

How about they either give us what we paid for. a 250HP car, not a 228hp car.
We all know that the new 238hp figure is still hopelessly optimistic.
A more realistic offer from them would be either to fix it, or to give us back about $3,000
That is in line with the cars value at that performance level.

You are one of the lucky ones, or hopelessly optimistic.
I too have owned a few Mazdas over the years:
RX-3: 3 replacement engines on the hidden warranty
MPV: New cam belts every 60,000km, at my expense.
A new transmission at 100K, at my expense ($3,000)
And I was not "lucky" enough to have bought their last lie: a 2001 Miata.

RX-8 Zoomster

msrecant ,

Thank you for your very refreshing post, amidst the pessimists, flamers, doubters and nay-sayers.

I agree, a very minute few will notice the missing 9 HP. The car is still performing 0-60 times as tested in pre-production. What has changed for this car to be now labeled as a POS to some? The stated HP number. IMO, it's nothing but a placebo effect to those hung up on the HP number alone.

msrecant

I am being curious (not confrontational) when I ask why do you feel you have been cheated? Prior to yesterday, did you feel the car was slower that it should be? Would the extra 22HP make the car more fun to drive for you?

canzoomer

They lied in saying it had 247HP
Now they claim 238, and are almost certainly still lying, and you are satisifed with that?

You must really enjoy getting sand kicked in your face.

At this point I think a more pragmatic approach is to expect them to either fix it, or to offer us a more realistic settlement of around $2,500 US ( $3,500 Canadian).

ToRX-8orToZ

Why is everyone so quick to buy this? Because Mazda's official word was akin to "Well, we got the numbers out of SOME of the RX-8s tested"? What, did they modify the cars to get the numbers?

I live 45 minutes away from Fontana and Pomona in So. Cal, so I'm frequently at the track with friends. The only time I've seen an 8 there, it ran poorly (well, relative to what its "supposed" to run).

I'll say it once, I'll say it again.... I think C&D is a corupt POS excuse for a magazine. The Z isnt running 0-60 at 5.4, and the 8 isnt running at 5.9.

alex

I'm curious, what if Mazda was to offer a third incentive (a second incentive to keep the car actually);

1) Maintenance and $500
2) Payback
3) Have Mazda install a supercharger for 1/2 the cost and "support" it. (or something to 'chkconfig rx8 faster', if you catch my drift [eh heh, get it, drift ... chkconfig .. hehe ... oh well ])

I think if this was an available choice, everyone would jump on it and NOT return the car. For those buying a new RX8, well, they'll make it a $10,000 performance option.

I feel happy that Mazda is willing to do this (again) .. how many other countless business and corporation deny, lie and/or cheat to get out of "sticky" situations (ie. tobacoo). Ethically, Mazda did an ethical thing ...

As for me, I'm pondering if I should keep it ONLY because I hate my manager at work and having debt while in this dilemma isn't a comforting feeling, even if it is an RX8. So, I would hope those returning the vehicle would do it for other reasons outside Mazda, ethics and the empirical HP #s which mean nothing in the end; whereas the enjoyment and "happiness" that you get from driving the car, is.

Toodles ... I love my RX8; I hate my manager; I'll have to figure this one out but at least driving my RX8 makes me leave work faster!

alex

TerenceT

i am keeping it, but holy ****...

can someone define "free scheduled maintaince" please

as in like Audi? bumper to bumper free everything (labor, parts and rental)

or the usual free parts maintainence? but pay labor?(100 bucks for an oil change cuz they use a flash light to check your blinker fluid)

and i take it anything unschedule is still cover by warranty?

CarEnthusiast

You are happy that this scandal has happened again?

This should not have happened in the first place. If you are just happy that there is compensation then you are missing the whole point.

It is not about the small HP change or the fact that the RX8 still drives the same as did yesterday, but it is about the ethics that Mazda as a company has taken and has a track record of doing in the past.

Would Mazda have kept silent and not change their advertised ratings if there was no complaint? If they cant even give an accurate reading from something as simple as an HP reading, then it makes you wonder about reliabilty, safety, and other engineering aspects of the car.

Do you see where Im getting at? It is not the HP that is the problem, it is the trust in Mazda that has me wondering. For anyone to be happy about this is way beyond reason for me.

tribal azn2

"doesn't mazda own at least 1 ******* dyno?"

TerenceT

Name one manufacture that's 100% honest? i think performance data were derived from actual tests, even magazine concured with performance data. how they dyno the engine to claim 250ps/250hp/247hp/238hp, i don't know. some idiot forgot to put the alternator drag on? don't know. advertising screwed up? yes and no because the 8 was manufactured in japan, testing is done in japan and all these data were supplied by japan. MNAO does not test the engine to confirm the data send by the manufacturer. emmission isn't even done with a physical engine these day, 'specs' were send to CARB and EPA for verification.

i am disappointed by the missing 20 hp but the car drives the same from day 1 for me. yeah, i am missing 20hp, i'll make it my incentive to beat simiar cars with my driving skills

for me, it's like

is like finding out your girlfriend or boyfriend doesn't put the toothpaste cap on after he/she moved in with you. you 'test drove' him or her (no punt intended) before they move in right? wouldn't you deal with it? one way or another?

a) kick him or her out (let mazda buy it back, go pick up someone(thing) else
b) he/she will buy you your own toothpaste AND toothbrushes AND floss

i know, i over simplify the problem, but pretty damn good analogy if i may say so

:D

Rotary13B1

Just go and drive the car folks.... You bought it because it's the REVIVAL of an engine that some people have been waiting for a long time. Surely no one here bought the car without a test drive, so you bought it because you LIKED it, end of story. No one buys something for $30K+ without putting some thought into it, unless your IQ is lower than your shoe size. You liked the way it drove, handled, and the nice rotor emblems everywhere. Regarding the hp #'s, okay Mazda screwed up one way or the other. "opps my bad!" Now they're trying to right a wrong, take their package or return the car, no harm done! Hope a few of you take the latter because I wouldn't mind trading in my '02 for an 8 for a few K's less. My 84SE wouldn't mind a younger brother.

Keep on Rotoring! Although I do think this car should be a sub $27K car fully loaded though! :D Don't think that's going to happen any time soon...

RX-8 Zoomster

A blatant lie and a revision of stated HP are two different things. First, those HP numbers were never rwhp, just flywheel. Second, the result of emissions is what changed the before and after HP numbers.

I'm satisfied with the car's performance and what Mazda did to make ammends to the current owners. I don't think they lied, so I'm not down on them for that. I am more disatisfied in performance cars having to be detuned for US emissions when I feel there are more blatant pollutants out on the road.

I thougt about not giving a response to your immature comment.

I feel I not standing on the beach to have sand kick on my face.

Obviously that's where you think you are instead of enjoying the drive of the RX-8. If you think you are getting sand getting kick in your face and don't like it, then get off the beach. Mazda gave you an opt out.

Well it is possible for you to have rational comments. It would have been nice for all if the settlement was higher. Personally, I think so, but none-the-less, I satisfied with the amount.

RX-8 Zoomster

I'd opt for #3 if it was available. Unfortunate it is not, therefore #1 is good for me.

RX-8 Zoomster

Thanks Rotary13B1. You saved me the trouble of posting my similiar thoughts.

rodmeister

quote: "From how I understand what was said, If you have a car on order, whether it is built or not, you will be able to take advantage of the program."

This may be premature, but what if my Mazda dealer refuses to honor this policy on the RX-8 I ordered two weeks ago? Does this cost the Mazda dealer any money, thus creating a disincentive, or does the dealer get fully reimbursed by Mazda Japan, and possibly get a small bonus for implementing this settlement?

BillK

Actually, from what I understand the option for $500 + maintenance requires that you take delivery by Tuesday (8/26). After that time, you can either take it or leave it (though I suspect if your deposit was "nonrefundable" before it certainly would be now...)

canzoomer

What you are doing is called "denial"

Mazda North America have REPEATEDLY tried to hide their mistakes.
RX-3 had engine problems. "Hidden warranty" - denial
MPV had engine problems - tope end and transmissions - denial
Millenia S has supercharger problems - denial
RX-7 overheating - denial
RX-8 short of power - denial

All car companies have problems.
Mazda, however, show a consistent behaviour in denying and trying to hide their problems.

People who are desparate to forgive them remind me of a battered spouse: "He only hit me because he was drunk. He did not realize what he was doing"

I fully realized that Mazda has this tendency before I got the car.
I sat down with my dealer and discussed the history before I bought the car, and received some assurances from their management that this time they would do a better job of dealing with the problems.

Problems are inevitable. It is how they deal with them that is the mark of quality or rubbish.
I like my RX-8 a lot.
However I fully intend to hold Mazda to their promises and responsibilities.

Jims5543

iTrader: (1)

I am amazed at how many of you are willing to just except the fact that you were lied to. I was sceptical that the RX-8 had 247HP right from the start. I decided to wait and see let some other person buy it first.

247 HP in my book is weak. 238 is pathetic. Mazda needs to step up, grow some ***** and make some powerful cars. All the other manufacturers are doing it and Mazda is getting left behind. ** Note to Mazda ** Don't bother building a new RX-7 if its going to be anemic. Please let the RX-7 die with dignity. The Type R Bathurst was a perfect way to end the RX-7's life.

Do you realize the RX-8 is the flagship car of the Mazda line? With 238HP???? Please!

Mazda can easily turn the Automotive world on its ear by simply building a 3 rotor motor. It already exists.

My friend just had a ITS engine dropped into his 90GTU it now has 190RWHP besides the engine the car is bone stock. He was running in a stock class in Autocross until the new engine.
He got to drive it and a RX-8 at the same Autocross he said his car felt so much faster.

I cannot understand how any of you can say you are content with your cars performance. A couple of guys over at Nopistons.com took the RX-8 out for a test beating, uhum, drive, and said they felt very lacking in the acceleration dept. One guy refered to a 90 GXL RX-7 as a comparison.

I want an RX-8 and will wiat to see what Mazdaspeed does with it. I hope they can make it interesting.