cruzdreamer

Does this apply to cars already on order....have an automatic ordered as of Aug. 8.......will I get the $500? thx

BOOSTD 7

Are you trying to make yourself look like a dumbass?

BOOSTD 7

Sure, I HATE that this happened. I'd much rather see the car be putting down 215-220 at the wheels and there be NO controversey what-so-ever. But this makes the car an excellent deal. So my girlfriend and I are going this morning to pickup her Winning Blue GT with Nav. Then we're going to drive the hell out of it, and we're going to love every second of it.

And you never know, I might trade the M3 in on one of those dealer buy-back cars if the price is right.

allstate

Personally, I don't understand what the big deal is about this news release. I mean yeah...it sucks that it no longer is "listed" as 247 hp BUT the change in the "numbers" does not affect the times reported by Road and Track, Motor Trend, etc. The car still is what it is. A number can't change that. If Mazda said the car had 2 horespower I still wouldn't care....it's just a NUMBER. If anything, we should take pride in that the car does more with less. People also forget that this engine was International Engine of The Year. Also ironic is the fact that most of the negative post are from non-8 owners.

TybeeRX-8

Like most of you, I'm really upset about this "lie." Look, the S2k is advertised at 240hp and it seems to me that Mazda wanted the 8 to look like it beat Honda on this point, but got caught.
As for the amends, $500 credit (probably on purchased of over-priced Mazda parts) and free maintenance for 4 yrs., it is just a ploy to avoid costly law suits...they hope.

Here's a real life example:
In 1998, I bought a New Beetle turbo diesel on a lark since I had never owned a diesel. About a year later (after the half shafts were replaced...the regular one couldn't handle the torque), I traded it in on Benz for my wife. Now, on August 11, 2003, I received a notice in the mail from the Superior Court of New Jersey, Atlantic County, that a settlement had been reached involving the "malfunctions of front door window mechanisms" in just about every VW NB, Golf, Jetta, etc. produced from 1998 to 2003. The "settlement" reached with VWoA is to replace the mechanism and provide a 7 year extended warranty for that mechanism; and reimburse any owner who paid to have the mechanism replaced, including any "out-ofpocket" expenses (towing, lodging, etc.) if the window wouldn't go up in a snowstorm, etc. The three named plantiffs will each get $1500 and the attorneys will get $520,000. Add to that what VWoA paid their own attorneys to litigate this case.

So, what does this mean? To me, it means the offer to make this "right" is one that saves Mazda a **** load of money! Engines are much more costly to deal with the "window mechanisms." Even BMW, when faced with engine failures in the M3, extended the engine warranty to 100,000 on the engines replaced (at no charge) and all other M3 engines, even those that did not fail.

I'll still get my 8 next week, but there needs to be something more in the way of reparations that don't require me to haggle with the dealer over the price.

THOR

I just saw a 287 horsepower 350Z make 202 wheel horsepower on a dyno dynamics dyno.........hmmmm perhaps that car is also a little underpowered? I would exzpect it to make at least 215-220 if it was making 287 horsepower. Heck a neon SRT4 made 205 wheel horse last week on the same dyno? But back to the RX-8 and it's 210 horsepower. A japanese magazine recently performed a test between a 210 hp 5 spedd and a "250" horsepower 6 speed. The 0-60 times were nearly identical at 7.1 seconds and the 6 speed made it throught the 1/4 mile in 2 tenths less than the 210 version at 1 mph faster? Sounds like gearing to me and not 40 horsepower. This car should be $22,000 as it has 210 horsepower and is not what the consumer is expecting when they cross shop with the G35 coupe, 350Z, BMW 330I and Honda S2000.

Thor.

Mark Booth

After years and years of being a Mazda evangelist (and owning one or two of just about every model they have made since 1979), not being able to muster any enthusiasm for the company makes me sad. I'm just not a fan anymore. But even I don't think Mazda has tried to cover up anything or intentionally lied about anything.

But, there is no doubt that the company is rife with problems. Look at the 2001-2003 Miata clutch problems. Some folks are on their third clutch and they are still suffering "chatter". And, as any long term Miata enthusiast knows, the clutch issue was not the first Miata problem to come down the road.

Unfortunately, it looks like Mazda's most recent track record continues with the 8.

Mark

graphicguy

Ya' know....looking at the other Subie, Acura, Honda threads regarding the RX8 "issue"... one thing kept jumping out at me. Yea, there were some in there that were "whooping it up" because the stated HP figures were down by 9. More interestingly, there were posts that were from people that still said "it's still a sweet car and I'd love to have one".

Is this controversy intentional on Mazda's part? Doubtful! Did they underestimate the toll emmission controls would sap?Probably.

Why would they want to cost themselves millions of dollars (which is what this free maintenance and $500 for current owners is going to cost them)? That 9 HP isn't going to affect my enjoyment of the car one bit.

We bought the car knowing its performance figures and those haven't changed. We test drove the car and were pleased with the way they performed before we plunked down our money.

Mazda wants go give me money and free maintenance? Fine by me. The car doesn't perform any differently than when I test drove it and I was happy then. GIve me free stuff and money.....makes me even happier, now.

This is kind of like buying a house and thinking it has a 100 gal water heater but finding out it really has a 90 gal water heater. I'm still going to get a good long hot shower out of it and won't affect how much I enjoy my home.

BOOSTD 7

Who the hell are you?

I think it's time to do some house cleaning ... ban all the Trolls.

graphicguy

Yea...there looks to be a lot of new "trolls" who have registered here lately who are a wee bit jealous of our rides.

StretchSJE

OMG, the Miata has that problem too? I have a huge shudder with my Mazda6 that Mazda has not fixed yet. It started at 4,000 miles, and does it at any RPM in 1st gear and sometimes in 2nd. Mazda also promised not to put rebates on the car or to sell to rental fleets in order to keep resale value high, and I got screwed there too. Mazda didn't just put rebates on the car, but huge ones. Since I planned to upgrade to an RX-8, trying to predict resale value was a important to me.

Now this.

khoney

Speaking of resale, there will undoubtedly be some bad press over this. What do you think that will do to resale? This car is now 'officially' in a different class - I don't think you'd compare it with the S200s and 350Zs anymore. To me that says I just paid too much for this car (even though I love it).

Mark Booth

Stretch,

The clutch shudder on 2001-2003 Miatas is a HUGE issue. Over in Miata.net Forum, I just did a search for "clutch shudder" in the NB (1998 and later) forum and I got 300 topic hits!

Some folks have had their clutch replaced 3 times. I've only had mine replaced once but the nasty shudder is back and there is a new service bulletin on it so I'll be going back.

Interesting that the Mazda 6 is similarly affected. Let's hope the RX-8 remains immune.

Mark

SARmedic

I don't think it will effect resale . It didn't hurt the resale for the miatia.....

ProToolsKid

Hey everybody I just got a call from my sales guy saying that Mazda's printed HP numbers were wrong that the car is not 247hp but actually 238hp
To make up for this Mazda is giving peeps that have already bought an RX-8 thinking it was the 247 HP a $500 refund on a debit card and free Maintenance for 4 yrs. Don't know what the detials are until I get the stuff in the mail but that's what I was told.

cueball

Old news, Sorry.

Skyline Maniac

First of all, the C&D numbers came from a preproduction RX-8 with 8000rpm of clutch drop. We do not know the actual production RX-8 is faster than the preproduction one due to recent events. How do we really know if the actual production mode is not weaker than the mules magazines tested months ago? Everything Mazda has 'claimed' about the car is now questionable in my mind. This is what I have been stressing in the past, the biggest downside of the RX-8 is that it is being sold and serviced by Mazda USA, a company with poor records when it comes to consumer service. Also, the International Engine of the Year was a engine that produces 250hp freely, reliable and gets 25miles to the gallon. Where is that engine now?

Skyline Maniac

That is a pretty sad analogy. If you really feel that way about your car though, more power to you. I think the power issue shouldn't be downplayed to the point where you guys want to say "missing power is not important at all compare to the benefit we'll receive from Mazda."

Renesis08

I'm sure a big part of that had to deal with emission laws.

graphicguy

I've personally done a 0-60 run with a 200 lb passenger using a stop watch. I did it in 6.5 (allowing for a little "fudge factor" using a stop watch) secs starting at 3K RPM (no hi rev clutch dump). Take out the passenger and I'm pretty close to 6 sec 0-60, without abusing the car. So, the car is right in line with what I had read performance wise.

Others (not C&D either) have hooked up a GTech here in the forum and have gotten 6 sec 0-60 with a hi rev clutch dump and a 14 sec 1/4. Again, right where I expected the car would perform.

Since it sounds like emmissions controls in the U.S. are the culprit, I'll give Mazda the benefit of the doubt and consider it an honest mistake.

I've driven the 350Z/G35 when test driving. I chose the RX8 after test driving and nothing about my RX8 has changed. I didn't buy it based on the numbers on paper. I bought it because I liked it better than all the rest.

Sure I used published numbers when researching. That's not what got me into the Mazda dealership in the first place, though. The prospect of driving a great looking sports car with a rotary engine did get me into the dealership, though. If there was a 40 HP difference, then I would have noticed it on the test drive and I may have changed my mind. In short, that 9 HP doesn't mean a "hill of beans" to me.

I don't drive what's on paper, however. I drive my car.

Now I'm going to get money and free maintenance on top of owning a car that I thought was better than its competition to begin with. That's even better.

Truth be told, if there were as much fanaticism about other cars as there is about the RX8 and the same scrutiny was applied, I'd bet we'd find all sorts of skeletons in their closets regarding what's advertised vs what's actual.

We all know that horsepower figures are more marketing hype than real world measures of performance anyway.

BillK

I'm so glad you know so much more than Mazda about how easy it is to "just build a 3 rotor engine."

I also like how you are apparently uniquely equipped to say whether anyone is happy with their vehicle's performance.

"One guy referred to a '90 GXL RX-7 as a comparison" - hmmm, a very popular edition of the RX-7, I'm sure Mazda would be flattered.

The RX-8 and Renesis were never designed to be an ultimate sports car with neck-snapping acceleration - Mazda's own engineers say that. It was never designed to be a flagship - note the fact that it stickers for about $10K less than the last RX-7 did, and that's without accounting for 1995 vs. 2003 dollars.

If you don't like it, or Mazda, BUY SOMETHING ELSE.

loco4rx8

Well said, graphicguy.

I'm a little tired of people coming here and insisting that the car doesn't perform as advertised. If you and others are able to get the car from 0-60 in 6 seconds, then the car is performing the way it should.

That being the case, the hp doesn't mean much, except from a legal standpoint. Mazda needs to make amends to current owners because they fell short of what they promised in terms of horsepower. They are trying to do that. Would I like more from them? Of course. However, free maintenance in itself will save me a good amount of money. The $500 (if it's available to spend as we please) is pretty nice as well.

I suppose some people are just hooked on that number. I'm not. I don't want to be duped and made a fool, to be sure. There's no question I'm disappointed that Mazda did this again. But they are stepping up and trying to correct it. That's a good thing.

BillK

Come on, Skyline, don't join the trolls. You know better than this, someone has posted here in the past week showing they got 6.0 0-60 times with a very high rev clutch drop (around 8000 RPM). The magazines themselves all said they had to dump the clutch at 7500 RPM+ to get the best times.

Not everyone has access to a dyno; many enthusiasts do have access to a GTech and those results have been posted here in other threads... unless you think they were Mazda plants or something.

RX8-U-UP

I believe that this car showed up at America's door with 247HP. It did not meet our EPA standards, waited at all the ports until parts and equipment could be sent to all the ports to reburn ECU proms that would meets the EPA standards (remember the minimum 3 week wait at all ports for no reason). There will be aftermarket chips that will recover all that was lost, plus. Just my opinion. But it kind of explains the whole port hush, hush, thing.
Mazda would not nowingly inport another car after past problems and repercusions. They have spent the last 2 month (quick in corporate time) coming up with an acceptable remedy for the problem.

They are probably leaking good solid burn info to aftermarket companies as we speak, to further remedy the situation.

I'm quite happy with whatever is coming out of it, and the money and service is a bonus.

The brand new S2000 I was following the other day, thought he had a 247 HP monkey on his back.

BillK

Sure.

Go to the scheduled maintenance portion of your owner's manual.

Note the services specified and when they are due.

Said services will be free at the intervals specified.

Not that difficult to understand.

That means things like oil and filter changes, belts, spark plugs, air filters, etc. will be free.

Unlike the Audi Advantage, things like wiper blades and wiper fluid will not as they're not "scheduled maintenance" items.