dos

I guess we will all have to wait and see what Mazda has up it's sleeve. I would like to see a RX-8 Mazdaspeed with HP around 280 to 300 hp.

RX-Hachi

Exactly. Even if the early 13b-msp prototype was making more power, concepts like the RX-Evolv did not have to meet strict emission standards or care for long term reliability. Concept cars are built for one reason - marketing.

I read somewhere that the SpeedSource RX-8 that races in the GrandAm series was making something like 270 hp. Those cars start with a stock Renesis motor, which are then tuned for racing. I had heard that a key part of their power gains was done via a "special" Mazdaspeed race prepped ECU.

rx8wannahave

What ever comes along for the 8...I just hope we can retrofit it to our cars, to enjoy in the new found power.

My personal opinion...if the 8 had 300HP out of the box weighing what it does (3-3.15K) they would have sould alot more 8's.

In my opinion when I compare or look in detail to our 8, you can't blame it's looks, quality, interior space, handling, balance, entry price, rear seating comfort, or standard features.

So, the question is what has kept the sales of the 8 at their current rates?

Maybe the rotary engine, good-avg-poor fuel economy (I would group mine into avg+), but personally I think one of the major factors is the HP.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with my 8's power, but based on it's competitors...270HP would have been better and 300 would have been GREAT!

My .02

DreRX8

Don't forget Ford was judicious with the budget they gave Mazda for Rotary development--now profits at Mazda are flowing--which allows for more development of these fun projects. A 250HP RX8 is sufficient--save the 300HP number for an RX7.

rx8wannahave

Sufficient power? What's that? LOL 250 whp...yes, that would be nice...

Why save the 300HP for the RX7...that's not fair! Just make the RX7 weigh in at 2700 and it will still be faster than the 8...for the sake of the RX7 ego's out there.

Heck, if anything we could always swap out our NA Renesis for the RX7 version making 300HP...sweeeeettttt

TwitchFD

yeah i see the next RX-7 sticking to the 280-300hp marker, consitering it is Mazda's flagship as a few of you have mentioned. but honistly i love the 8 for what it is and the 7 for what it has been, and i hope they just dont make a 2 door 8 and stick a 7 badge on it.

AvitalBlue8

Actually the next Rx7 (if it comes out) would have to be far beyond 300HP, why? The newer Z's are making 300HP (yes they are significantly heavier) but why would your average sports car person by a rotary (oh noes they are unreliable! *myth*) over a piston engine making the same power? Not to mention the 7 will probably priced around the 40k range...O **** now your competing w/ the price of the new vettes (making 400hp, weight around 3100 if i'm not mistaken). Other cars the 7 would be compared to would be the New Supra and Skyline GTR (still speculation if any of those 3 cars are every coming out again) but the new Rx7 would defenetly have to be mid 300's if not close to 400hp seeing as what it would be up against.

*edit* I think i read somewhere that the 280HP limit (wasn't actually a limit just all the Japanese manufacturers agreeded to a HP limit ) in Japan was done away with, but i'm not positive.

AvitalBlue8

Actually GM did this with the LS1's in their Cameros and Firebirds....they detuned or restricted it in order to not upset the Corvette owners (all 3 cars used the same engine for a number of years) but it didn't make any sense either cause you would think the 700-800 lb difference between a Corvette and a Camero would be enough to set the performaces apart. /bonk GM

Saint_Spinner

Took the words right out of my mouth. The same goes for the Boxster...technically, from an engineering point of view the Boxster has a higher potential than the 911 in terms of performance. The motor was detuned in order to not cannabilize 911 sales or **** off the 911 owners. This "potential" is mainly in its layout. Mid engine vs. rear engine.

The boxster has the better chasis layout.

zoom44

the original 280hp of the prototypes was with a higher rpm limit and different intake manifolds. not to mention the pollution controls(mechanical and electronic)

himitsu

Wow... I hope Im wrong, then we will see a reliable 15000 rpm in the RX7s, Id buy that in a heartbeat even if I have to sell my soul.

And the Star Mazda machines, after each race, they are checked, rechecked, tuned, and cleaned... rebuilding aside, that is still a far cry from the treatment of a regular car, slot it in the garage, leave it until your next trip.

pritch

how fast do we really want to go because the car is pretty quick already. if you wanna go faster get in a real race car.but to me this car feels like a racecar. who cares if it isnt up to snuff in hp it is still one hell of a ride . just my 8 cents

pritch

still we have real racing engines in a open wheel format thats not bad bragging rights

RX8-CARL

F1 car's are reving up to 19000 rpm, but they only need to last two race's.

rx8wannahave

Is there a point where too high of a (especially for street use) readline is just not worth it? Traffic keeps me maxed out normally to about 6-7K so I rather see a bigger rotary 1.5L or Turbo/SC then to increase the rpm's to 19K...lol

Torque is the key missing in the rotary...

Wurmfist

Torque is only missing on the lower rpms, once it spins up a little I don't think it's as much as a problem. The problem with going over 10k is seals and belts flying off. Although the more RPMs=more horsepower. Why don't we just slap a F1 engine into the 8....now that would be good!

MTLbroker

Why far beyond 300 hp? Marketing hype? Funny how rx8 owners never brag about the car's light weight. The Z weighs almost 500 lbs more (I think).

Take the Lotus Elise - has something like 190 hp, but 0-60 is 4.9 sec. High hp doesn't necessarily make a car a sports car - it makes a good dragster.

Speaking of Lotus, the Esprit has 350 hp turbo V8. Its curb weight is similar to that of the rx8, 0-60 is 4.4 sec. I think it is still considered an exotic car, no?

One of the most interesting cars I ever drove was the Toyota MR2 MkII. It had 200 hp turbo 4cyl in a mid-engined sub-3000 lb chassis. 0-60 5.9 sec. Can you imagine an extra 85 hp in that car with 18-inch wheels and all the electronic dodads of today?

I think an rx7 in a smaller, tighter 2-seat package with a 285 hp rotary in a mid engined chassis weighing in at 2600 lbs (think 285 horses in a mid-engined car with weight of a miata) would be the way to go.

rx8wannahave

Yeah...but I think 2700 with 300HP would be just right...it cost money to make these cars light and if the next RX7 cost too much, it will die off again like it did with the last one.

DreRX8

Well one financial advantage that an RX7 today would have over the FD would be the fact that parts will most likely be shared. Its like airlines having fleet commonality. Not to mention that Mazda is in a better position financially than in 1995. The market is also receptive to sports cars right now. Honestly I believe that there is more of a market for RX7 and RX8 over the Mazdaspeed 6 and maybe the Mazdaspeed 3. I view the Mazdaspeed 6 as more of a niche vehicle than a 7; if for nothing else that it does not come with an auto tranny. While I applaud Mazda for only sticking a 6spd in there--I think its nearsighted for them not to offer an auto. The car is less hard edge than EVO's and STIs (M/T only) but more hard edge than G35 Sedan, Acura TL, or Legacy GT (offer A/T options). As such the market for such a car is very narrow.

MTLbroker

Corvette=C$65,000 base
SLK=C$68,000 base
350Z=C$45,000
rx8=C$37,000
g35=C$45,000?

a new Mazda halo car in the rx7 with a price around C$50,000 is not shabby. I think C$13,000 can buy a lot in terms of weight reduction. And not to mention weight reduction may be needed for the sake of fuel economy.

AvitalBlue8

Yes weight is a HUGE factor, thats why you see 400-500hp Rx7s taking 600-700hp Supras no problem, the weight difference was killer (2700 vs 3500). I absolutely love the lightweight feel of the Rx8 & Rx7.

I just looked it up on 3 separate sites to be sure...Base model Z weighs in about 3200lbs (287HP/274TQ) $26k, 35th Anniversary Edition weighs about 3400lbs (300HP/260TQ) $36K. Rx8 is about 3000lbs (238HP/159TQ) $26k. If our cars had 260HP at the crank we wouldn't have a problem w/ Z's in straight lines. Lets say the next Rx7 is priced about $36k has 285HP weights about 2700-2800lbs. Why would your average sports car purchaser (now I didn’t say enthusiasts) buy an Rx7 over 35th Z? Yes we know that the Rx7 weighs a lot less but there a lot more non-enthusiasts than enthusiast, who dont take into account the weight of a car when they purchase one (weight was one of the primary reasons I bought the Rx8, its easier to get HP than it is to shed weight). The Z has more HP and has a conventional piston engine (remember people don’t like change and rotarys are not liked because of the 3rd gen rx7 debacle). The advantage the Rx8 has over most its competition is that its 4 seats.

Now that your spending close to $40k, why not spend the extra money for a C6 vette? 3100lbs with 400hp & 400tq. So Mazda has to build a car that:

A) Performs as good as a vette
B) Cheaper than a vette
C) Do it w/ a rotary engine.

Now to me this equates to a 2700-2800lb car w/ 350Hp which will probably be turbo *cringe*. It’s probably going to have shitty gas mileage also to get those HP numbers. It would be quite the accomplishment though. If they did it, I sure as hell would buy one.

Car companies design cars to sell them to your average Joes, we are not your average Joes. The company has to build a car so that people buy it over the other cars it’s competing with. This is the way I see it at least.

adim_x

I really hope mazda wouldnt make an rx7 that costs fifty grand. In the eighties they were the affordable sports car. then in one model changed they doubled the price. thats what killed the car, not the reliability.

AvitalBlue8

Those prices that MTLbroker posted were in Canadian.

bongoboyla

Sweet mother of mercy, how much more power do you think they can get without the thing blowing up after 1000 miles !!?!?!?

First off, the IRL and F1 do not allow rotaries. The IRL runs 3.5 liter V8's (soon to go down to 3.0) and F1 is strictly a 3 liter V10. Also, any rotory motor that Mazda uses for pro racing is going to be at least a three-rotor configuration AND purpose-built for racing. It's seems a bit silly to try and look at a manufacturer's race engines and complain that they're "holding out" on us consumer car folks.

I mean sheesh, My brother's Honda Accord doesn't have nearly the 900BHP it's big brother driven by Takuma Sato has! (It also lacks the illegal fuel tank too!)

Dr. Ferdinand Porsche said it best: "A perfect race car engine should get the car across the finish line in first place, then fall to pieces".

I think it's astounding that Mazda has been able to squeeze an incredible 183 BHP/liter out of that little motor! Not to mention reducing emissions AND increasing reliability; both of which are critical in a mass-produced consumer car.

My $.02

zoom44

you should read the specs my freind- its the same engine that is in our rx-8s. 1.3 litre 13b-msp Renesis

http://www.starmazda.com/promazda.htm