Machiavelli

I suppose there's no point unless you're trying to communicate a concept. This is more relevant with an 8 than it is with many other cars because there just aren't that many other mass market cars out there that can be considered sports cars in the classic sense.

I thought the Wiki description did a good job of explaining the classic sports car model:

"Most vehicles referred to as sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are designed for more precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics. A sports car's dominant considerations can be superior road handling, braking, maneuverability, low weight, and high power, rather than passenger space, comfort, and fuel economy."

I agree that it's kind of silly to get all worked up arguing over whether an MS3 or any other given car is a "sports car," but if the intention is to communicate the concept of a car like that described above, the MS3 does not really fit the bill. Admittedly, the 8 falls a bit outside the classic mold also insofar as it has the back seat and four doors.

robrecht

That's why we should be talking about fluid categories and a variety of compromises.

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

Butt hurt because someone called a car I don't own a non-sports car and labeled my car a sports car? That doesn't make a lot of sense. I just found the original post to be pretty petty because a guy is trying to "break the news" to his friend that his new toy "isn't a sports car" and it seemed, as such, it considered it a fact to be a lesser vehicle. Then you had a bunch of 8 owners piling on "omg, the 8 so ownz the MS3" just trying to stroke their egos about owning a car that has many short comings its self.

I have another friend who bought an Hyundai Accent GT. That's right, a GT! He was all excited having bought his first new car and proud. Seeing as he is a friend of mine, I have made a mental note not to dump on his car. It just doesn't seem like the "friend" thing to do especially if you're are trying to blow your own horn in the process.

eviltwinkie

how interesting....go on....please....

delhi

Call it as it is. A Sport Hatch. The STi and the Z4M Coupe are also sports hatches. Nothing wrong with that nomenclature.
RX-8 & M5 are sport sedans.
350Z & MX-5 are sport cars.
335i & Mustang are sport coupes.
A4 Avant & Legacy GT are sport wagons.
Porsche Cayenne Turbo & Forester Turbo are Sport UV

What is so difficult to figure it out?

eviltwinkie

Nothing...thats why people who argue and or continue to post in this thread are idiots...

Heh...however I still have issue teh kitteuh...

Rhawb

I never understood arguments about what constitutes a sports car. The way I see it, if it is intended for sporting purposes on tarmac, it's probably a sports car. I don't delimit that they must be of a specific proportion or stance. An MS3, EVO, STi, etc. can blow the doors off most cars on the road, and can hang with some pretty impressive company. I'd say that's plenty to constitute a sports car.

Either way, the Speed 3 will roast most cars in a drag race, but it won't drop any jaws as it enters a corner. It's not better than the 8, but it's also no worse, it just has a different focus (power over handling).

valpac

iTrader: (2)

If you value your friendship just drop it. BTW, techinically speaking, the MS3 is not a sports car. But really neither is the 8.

eviltwinkie

SageJMP

In terms of the track, Mazdaspeed3 for NASA is D*, RX-8 for NASA is D, this means the mazdaspeed3 has a slight advantage on the rx-8 when it comes to the track and track times actually prove this since the speed3 pulls faster lap times.

Tsukuba: RX8 1:11.9 / 3MPS 1:10.27
Hockenheim Short: RX8 1:19.8 / 3MPS 1:19.6
Bedford Autodrome West Circuit (pre 06/2008): RX8 1:32.70 / 3MPS 1:31.30
Oschersleben: RX8 1:56.14 / 3MPS 1:52.34
Laguna Seca: RX8 1:50.7 / 3MPS 1:50.375
Virginia International Raceway: RX8 3:19.0 / 3MPS 3:16.0
Serres Racing Circuit: RX8 1:38.5 / 3MPS 1:37.40

In terms of the autocross, Mazdaspeed3 for SCCA is D, RX-8 for SCCA is B.

My conclusion, the RX-8 is definitially the beast when it comes to handling but the mazdaspeed3's extra power helps it make up for it when it comes to a track. You also have to remember a FF setup usually has a lower drivetrain power loss then a FR setup. So that 30 extra horsepower the speed3 has at the crank can actually be 40-50 extra horsepower at the wheels.

But overall, I still prefer the FR setup because it remains fun and doesn't have the understeer of a FF setup. Also I love having an engine that no other car (other then the RX series) has and is extremely smooth.

And for the topic, I consider both a sports car. I don't believe the typical definition that a sports car has to have only 2 seats. It doesn't matter if it is a sedan, coupe, roadster, if it was designed to be used aggresively then it is a sports car. A Mazda3 is an economy car while the Mazdaspeed3 is a sports car, that is my conclusion.

eviltwinkie

blah blah blah blah...whine whine whine...we get that your butt hurt...

SageJMP

what? why would my butt hurt?

eviltwinkie

Rootski

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure the speed3 is very fun, but it's a bit of a blunt instrument.

Stavesacre21

very fun sounds to be pushing the envelope just a hair...

VikingDJ

It's great to be able to buy a very utility friendly hatchback that goes like stink. That's how it is now. These sedans and hatchbacks are the fastest imports out there. It's more about utility, so the sports car category is just different, and it's all in how one sees it. Hard to know what to call it, when a fwd economy hatchback will smoke Mazda's flagship sports car. SHAME ON YOU MAZDA.


It doesn't make it less of a car, but for someone who needs the space and ulitity, but doesn't wanna sacrifice performance, the Speed 3 is a super bargain.

However, it is ashame that the fastest car mazda makes is a 3 hatchback. The RX8 would get smoked in any kind of straight line race. dead start, roll, you name it. My Speed 6 weighing in at 400lbs heavier is even faster then my S2000, so even though I've never driven one, I'd imagine that thing is a beast, especially once moving.

eviltwinkie

OR to paraphrase...

dillsrotary

Twinkie, youre ruining this thread, please stop. We get it, you don't agree, but there can be an adult conversation here without your pointless posts.

eviltwinkie

how many times do you have to rehash the same old bullshit thread that eventually digresses into pissing contests between those with lolcatz and those without...

trust me...i'm doing you a favor...

onephatguy

Why say anything to him? Let him enjoy his new car. It is a cool car. Let him go to a Mazda meet and see what cars all the owners gravitate towards.

robrecht

A Mazda3 is definitely better than a Plymouth Horizon, 'though it doesn't get as good gas mileage as a Diesel Rabbit.

superglue

Subaru's fastest car is an Impreza hatchback, Toyota's fastest car is a Camry, big deal.

VikingDJ

Well neither currently have a flagship sports car do they? You should have used better examples, but you're right, to RX8 owners it obviously isn't a big deal, and thias subject brings out the defensiveness of RX8 owners and fans.

Now if the Nissan Altima was condiserably faster then 350z, then we'd have a comparison. or the Civic faster then the S2000. You get the point.

Flame on!!

eviltwinkie

Uhh you missed the point where if you slap a turbo on anything its faster I guess...

Just because you put a dress on a goat and have sex with it...does not make it a prom queen...

Or at least not for most of us who are not living a lie...heh

Vasichko

iTrader: (1)

Then again driving the flagship of Mazda they shouldve given us some love alont with some lower compression rotors and a turbo.

I wouldve paid more to have a small snail under the hood from the start.