Go48

Well put Spin. You took the words right out of my mind. A well-reasoned and civil letter to senior officials in Mazda accompanied by this kind of supporting data will get their attention. My experience with this approach has in most cases resolved sticky problems I've had with a number of organizations.

One thing that someone on this forum might consider would be to collect this kind of detailed data from as many owners as possible who are having this problem, and then write an effective letter to the right individual in Mazda who can actually do something about the problem. Phone calls to customer service reps and discussions with service department heads will most likely be a waste of time and energy if this is a significant problem accross this model.

SDB

I am in total agreement. You should not have to worry about how you drive, when you shift, when you idle, or anything else to get within the epa range (or at least close).

I don't think that a letter will get much more than a polite thank you from Mazda.

But the Lemon Law will work. I had to use it in the past with a Volvo. As soon as I mentioned it I was escorted to the sales manager and they could not do enough to get me a brand new car. I had the first one for six months and got a new one with no miles on it for no cost. The Lemon Law works and is meant to protect consumers from manufacturing defects that cannot be solved.

If I was getting 10 mpg in a RX8 I would not waste the time listening to dealers excuses. Bring it in to get it fixed. If it is not fixed when you get it back then bring it in again. Your service receipts are documentation enough. When the service department fails to repair it then read the lemon law and respond according to its requirements. Enjoy your new car.

See how easy that is?

EandGWZ

My car (rx-8) 6 spd GT is the same way 186 a tank

snap-on

As a interested by-stander..

What exactly would you like the dealer to do?

He can check your car and others to compare hundreds of parameters, but with nothing out of spec how can he fix this?

iamcanadian

[QUOTE=SDB]I am in total agreement. You should not have to worry about how you drive, when you shift, when you idle, or anything else to get within the epa range (or at least close).

You gotta be kidding right? I totally disagree. I can get the epa figures but I can also get 10MPG.

One reason these threads get tiring is that, as a number of people pointed out, a lot of factors go into MPG, from driving conditions, to driving habits to mechanical. For someone to post their 10 MPG story with insufficient attention to these other factors is useless. Tell everyone, I do, that asks me about the car and wants to get one that it just does not good mileage and the mileage is highly variable. It is like buying a red shirt but not wanting it to be red. It is red. The car is TERRIBLE sitting in a spot and idling + you are not moving so your mileage will be ridiculous . . . so if you have a lot of that, expect bad mileage. Shift below 4K as a MAX, or you can expect far worse mileage. In town puttering to and from work I try to shift at 3K, not fun, but efficient. I open it up on occasion and take it canyon carving when I want to use some fuel and have some fun! I can drive my car in certain conditions and a certain way and get 9MPG and drive it differently and get 15MPG. Maybe there is a problem with some of these cars, but honestly 10MPG is in the range of mileage I CAN get, but rarely do given where and how I drive the car. Anyways, I can get 180-260 mi in town and 335-385 mi highway depending on how and where I drive. So if you post on this topic please give us some numbers, tell us exactly how you drive (75% of time shift at 6K for eg), where you drive, the traffic, distance, etc and I think we can get a better idea as to whether GENERALLY bad mileage is related to one or a few of those factors. I really like this forum and as a community we should encourage constructive discussion.

BillK

Define "granny shift" for you; one person's "granny shift" is another's "flogging the engine."

Try shifting at around 4K RPM, and always get into 6th as soon as you can without bogging the engine; anything above 30 MPH or so should be fine.

IcemanVKO

Yes I found out on my Honda Civic, that it gets better gas millage when I drive it more aggressively. The power band on the 1.5L civic is 4200-5500 rpm, so I try to shift it around 5k so that it catches the higher gear at about 3800-4k. This makes my Civic rather torquey and it sounds louder than you would expect, but I have 200k miles on it, and its getting 30 mpg, with no engine trouble. Not even a knock.

I know this has nothing to do with Rotory engines, however keep in mind, that if you are opporating a motor in its power band, you are getting better fuel economy.

whosyourbaba

i shift below normally at 3-4 k most of the time, and always go to 5th or 6th on local, which is around 40 mph.

Elara

It really is a great idea, and it's not hard to do. Since I bought the car, I keep a notebook in my glove compartment, and every time I fill up I record date, total mileage, and tank mileage. I also include any services I get done when I get them done. That way I have a relatively well documented case if I need to go after my dealer.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I have also documented every drop of oil, fuel and every service in a notebook for every vehicle that I have ever owned. If you pay attention....you can get a lot of useful info watching the trends. I could tell on my MX-6 when it needed a tune up, or when it fried another plugwire.....mileage dropped about 20%. Easy to do....and really doesn't leave the dealer much wiggle room when you talk to them about the mileage.

zomzomp5

I have my car for a year and 2 monthe now and I'm averaging 16 mile per gallon. And I drive it like I autocross it.

SDB

Now I admit that you could fill your tank and idle until it was empty and get zero MPG. But I still think that driving style is not the problem with most of these 10 mpg issues. Review the posts and you will see many people commenting that they get better mileage when they drive hard.

I remember a while back BMW ran a series of test on one of their cars and came to the conclusion that the best gas mileage was obtained by reaching cruising speed by using 3/4 to full throttle and shifting just after peak HP. Look at this way, if you hammer it and get to 80 then get into top gear and cruise you will use less fuel than if you slowly accelerate and shift at 4000 until you get to 80 and then cruise.

The first case gives you much more time cruising with little or no gas being applied.

What I teach my kids is that the brake pedal is what really wastes fuel.

By the way, if you can get 9 mpg on the street you are having too much fun or need to see your dealer, your car has a problem.

Haze

If one is recording data to show what your real world gas mileage is, how far are you driving the car on the average drive. From digging into this issue on the board earlier in the year, some of the people receiving extremely poor mileage were jumping on two lane roads at 55 MPH from a cold start up and driving about 5 miles to shut off. The problem with this is that the car runs on choke the whole way and burns multiples of the amount of fuel that it would otherwise. It is one of the things to think about when discussing poor milegae. Just look at that temp gauge and see if it has gotten all the way up to its full temperature, and if it hasn't then you are sucking fuel. Just a point, although I'm not sure that there isn't something else going on here for people getting this kind of mileage. Best of luck.

dragula53

I may be wrong, but do you really save fuel by warming the car up in your driveway rather than warming it up by driving?

you are getting exactly 0 miles per gallon while it is parked in your driveway, warming up for 5 minutes.

I have heard advice going both ways.. saying to warm up your car before driving, or warm it up by driving.

And I was also under the impression that the only reason to let your car warm up in the driveway was to avoid flooding.

I really understand the concept of expanding metals and cold oil, and all of that, but I have never heard a convincing argument one way or the other. Or, more correctly, I have heard convincing arguments for both schools of thought. So I compensate by taking it easy while I drive my car to warm it up.

I may be slightly off topic, too. but it seemed relevant.

Moo

iamcanadian

By the way, if you can get 9 mpg on the street you are having too much fun or need to see your dealer, your car has a problem.[/QUOTE]

No such thing as too much fun in the RX right SDB! I agree with your post and was not trying to dictate the best way to drive the RX to get the best mileage. However, as we know a rotary is innately different from a piston engine . . . therefore who knows whether your BMW eg is applicable . . . maybe the rotary is 50% throttle to cruising. Regardless, there are far more posts of people driving conservatively getting decent mileage than driving like Schumacher and getting good mileage.

Whatever I have no interest in going down that road, what I was trying to encourage was for people complaining, or those who are content with their mileage, to post many more details regarding the conditions, driving habits, etc. so that we may better understand why some are getting bad mileage and many others are not. There may be general themes, there may not. It may be mechanical it may not. I am not judging anyone, but it is a better use of people's time and is more likely to be constructive.

MP3Guy

ROCK ON, DAWG!!!!

Howard

This is an example of exactly what I mean when I say I get horrible mileage as compared to others. I drive modestly shifting below 4000 rpm most of the time. I do not warm my car up excessively maybe 2 minutes. I get 10mpg. Yet I read over and over that many owners drive like zomzomp5. If he is telling the truth and the dozens of others are also which I am sure they are then why would anyone get 10mpg unless as someone said they are sitting and idlling or racing the car. Some of the forum members have went so far as to calling those who complain liars. Does documenting each tank full somehow make the mileage a reality? I mean I could write down anything I want. You can either believe me when I state that I got 13mpg and now I get 10mpg or not. It won’t change reality. I also believe there are several others in this situation and there is a list. At this time I do not have the stats from each of these members yet. When and if I get them I will post them. For those who keep trying to find a reason to blame it on the driver I think they just don't want to except the reality that a RX8 could have a problem. I checked my mileage every fill up but did not write any of them down. I got right at 13mpg for the first several fillups and now 10mpg for the last 5 or 6. So If I just write some numbers down that is going to impress Mazda. I doubt that. I would imagine they will want to document the mileage for themselves before replacing the car. I mentioned the lemon law to the service manager and he sort of smiled. I don't think cars generally get replaced by just complaining but probably legal action is required. I will start documenting my mileage and give Mazda a chance to respond to the Dealership and wait. If it is true as the service manager that Mazda knows they have a problem with some vehicles and is looking for a solution then I can wait a while before I do anything.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

You make sense.....up to a point. I don't think that you will have much luck with a stick...so to speak. Honey usually works better. If you want to get rid of the car...so be it...use a club. ( Lawyer :D)

If you want the car fixed....find a dealer that has a good mechanic...develop a rapor with him and the service manager...explain what your problems are...and work together to find a solution.........they will contact Mazda for tech info when needed and try to fix your car.

The quickest way to **** off a car dealership is to demand, threaten or just be a jerk. Even if it's bit frustrating with the timing

NOTE: since people in this thread already took something the wrong way...I'm not saying this applys to ANYONE in particular........making generalizations.

Car dealerships are like like everything else......there are good ones and bad ones....and really shitty ones. Find a good one....work WITH them...and you will find owning any car a lot more enjoyable.

I think the most difficult thing is getting through to the dealership that you are passionate about your car without coming across like an ***. The first while the dealership that I deal with couldn't understand ....why I didn't want them to wash my car. I explained that I wanted to minimize any chances to scratch the car. At first they seemed put off, but then this really clicked for the service manager. He knows that I care about my car...now he tells the mechanics to be extra careful. After a few visits...I get to borrow the service manuals...the mechanic let's me use the WDS if he's not too busy, and he has said that he will help me out if I have any questions.

Coffee, donuts......anything helps. Get them on your side...and they will fight FOR you.
**** them off, and they will make your life HELL

Just my 2 cents worth....after 25 years of driving a lot of different cars :D

mysql101

Exactly. You warm it up in your drive way if you had to pull your car out of the garage to wash it - let it warm up before shutting it down. If you're going to drive the car, no need to let it sit there running. Drive it and keep the rpms under 4k for about 10 minutes.

Haze

The general rule for modern cars is to drive them conservvatively to warm them up. You are definitely not saving gas by idling the car cold. You just don't want to run it hard until it is warm.

What I was trying to say is that a car which is never run long enough to get off choke will suck gas like a dieing man in the desert sucks water. It is one reason that people have seen poor mileage from their 8's.

I am also not saying that there might not be a mechanical problem with the car. From Canzoomers work, there has been a theory that the MAF sensors run all over the place and creates all kinds of tunings for the car. Who knows? Some cars are definitely getting bad mileage, and there are lots of owners who swear that they don't run it hard. I believe them. I just don't know an answer, but how much of a tank is spent on choke has something to do with mileage.

Howard

This is my plan at this time. I think next time I might try the donuts. I don't know about the coffee thought. It is a BMW dealorship and they already have 5 flavors freshly brewed. In general I like the service department. At this point they say they just don't know what to do and are waiting on Mazda.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

As hard as it is remain patient for a while. Discuss your concerns about how long it is taking with the service manager....then the dealership manager after a while longer....and later on to owner...MNA etc. It's really difficult to stay cool and to let them know you are willing to co-operate, BUT not bend over the service counter :D

Hopefully being a BMW dealership doesn't mean they treat you different than the Bimmer owners

buzzardsluck

After reading all the gas mileage posts on here Im surprised to see that so few people care that their cars are not at least able to make the low end of the EPA numbers. It seems people were pretty pissed when the horsepower of the engine was off. Why is this not the same thing? Because its only a small group as opposed to everyone I guess. No I didnt buy it for gas mileage but when I get the same numbers as I got from my 5.7L V8 chevy truck engine, I think something might be wrong w/this picture.