Seks

What exactly is the issue with the engine??? Did Mazda overlook something again before the RX-8 hit dealerships?

mikeb

no, but it seems their are so bad apples in the bunch unfortunaltly

cruzdreamer

Worried about mine.....lots of hesitation until after about 5-10 mins of driving....I mean I know it does not like cold starts but it really seems like it has to fully warm up for 5 plus minutes. Also, took me two tries to start it today! Not to mention the guzzling of gas! Argh!

canzoomer

More good and bad news.

My engine finally showed up at the dealers this week.
Took 3 weeks, as there were apparently some logistics issues.
Seems that either they misinformed me about when it was shipped, or they did not make very good arrangements for trucking and customs paperwork from the USA to here for the shipment.

Here is the letter I wrote today to the person I am dealing with at Mazda Canada public relations.
It details the experiences of this week. I have blanked the names to protect the innocent.

Hi XXXXX.
I tried calling you on Friday, but they tell me you were away on a seminar.

Some updates from my side.

The engine arrived at ZZZZZ Mazda at 5:15 p.m. on Wednesday the 12th.
They worked on it, exchanging the unit on Thursday, finishing up on Friday morning.
On Friday morning they called me and said it was installed, but they were having problems getting it to start.

After a few calls between the dealer and Mazda Canada people it was determined that they had to re-program the ECU, immobilizer, etc., so that it could be started.
The unit even came with a new ECU.

They tried to do this but ran into a big problem:
Apparently to program it they need a set of TWO ignition keys.
They had the one I left with them.
The other is in my desk drawer at my office.

As they called me on Friday afternoon to tell me this, and as they are about 165 kilometers south of me, it proved impossible to get the other key to them that day by closing time.

This necessitated my making some rather short notice travel arrangements to Phoenix.
I managed to secure a flight, and made arrangements for a rental while I am there.
On Thursday, when I was told the needed parts were there, ZZZZZ told me that he foresaw no problem in getting my car done by Saturday (today).

So, I did not make arrangements for a rental to allow me to travel to Arizona.
By the time we realised on Friday afternoon that this was not going to happen, and as I could not reach you, I did not have any options to make arrangements for a rental that I could use to make my trip.

I am leaving town on Monday morning by plane to Phoenix.
I asked the people at ZZZZZ Mazda to call Mazda Canada and ask them to Fedex a set of 2 keys to the dealer, so they can complete the work (hopefully).

Personally I find it a bit frustrating that they were sent a new engine, ECU and everything else, but nobody at Mazda Canada bothered to tell them they needed both keys, or did not provide a set of keys with the shipment. Mazda Canada had 3 weeks to do this, after all.

Immobilizer systems that use keys with a chip in them are not exactly a new technology.

That the procedure requires two keys is not something that I or the dealer would likely know in advance.

I return next Thursday night.

I spoke with ZZZZZ with the understanding that I would expect to be going to pick up my car next Friday, the 21st.

I will keep receipts for my travel expenses and forward copies of them to you after I return.

My next trip is to Utah around December 2nd.
I am hopeful that by then I might have a functioning car.

I am also hoping that the new engine is one that will not have the flaws in it that caused this failure.

I also pray that the change will result in a car that can get better gas mileage than I have seen to date.
If not I will have to buy a gas can to keep in the trunk, as my present highway range is around 300km to 350km to an empty tank, and I know of at least 4 stretches on my route that exceed that, with few or no locations where I can purchase gasoline.

I look forward to your reply, comments, and possible remedies to the issues I have brought forward.


I still want to keep my RX-8 (barely) but I am trusting that your firm can make me some decent offer to compensate me for my experiences to this point, and for the future.

If not, there would be little point in my making the trip to the dealership next Friday.

While I am away i will have access to email, so if you need to ask or tell me anything I will be able to correspond that way.

If it is urgent you could also call my cell phone.

Thanks for your assistance and perseverance in this episode, XXXXX.

miata2rx8

cruzdreamer

not to scare you, but you are describing some symptoms I had before mine failed- decreasing gas mileage and power, hestitation, and difficulty starting. I would take it to the dealer to check out.

Supercharger

According to our rotary expert - Judge Ito, it is a side-seal problem.

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...5&pagenumber=3

Nubo

Canzoomer sorry to hear about that fubar. Didn't they give you a loaner to drive while they repaired the 8? Mileage restrictions, or can't take it out of country?

Hope your new powerplant has the right stuff.

canzoomer

I got a rental from Enterprise, paid for by Mazda.
They originally tried to stick me with an econo-box, but I pointed out that I would not accept that for use in place of my brand new $43,000 car, so they upgraded me.

I am presently driving a Jeep Cherokee.

Not a sports car, but perfectly good transport for winter in Canada.

Unfortunately can not take it out of the country, so instead of driving down to Phoenix this week as I had planned, i have to fly.

Then I have to rent down there, and so on.. PITA.

ectomort

They gave me a crappy Ford Focus initially, but I complained as well and was upgraded to a Hyundai Elantra. It still sucks compared to my real car but at least I don't feel like it's an embarassing deathtrap.

-=Zeqs=-

Who do you guys complain to about the rental cars? The rental company, the dealership, or Mazda the company?

canzoomer

Talk to the dealer and Mazda's PR department.

The rental company has no say. They simply get a request on a pre-arranged program.

For example, in Canada it is a $35 per day rental rate agreement.

To upgrade that the people paying for it have to authorize it.

ectomort

All of the above. With enough polite pressure, one of them is more likely to bend a little. In my case, the per diem was $26 (!) and when I took back the first rental car, the rental agency upgraded me. It saves them money and hassle in the end, actually, because I would have returned car after car until I was satisfied. And they also don't want to shun a future customer.

renotse

Check his (Seks) other post and sig line.

Just a Honda owner stirring the pot.

edited to clarify who I was talking about.....sorry

ectomort

I'm not sure if you're referring to me (prolly not) but to be clear: I own an RX-8 and have never owned a Honda. I'm not attempting to foment any antipathy towards Mazda; just reporting the facts of my situation.

Aesculapius

Are you planning to test out the new ECU for any changes/improvements?

Seks

Stirring the pot? I was just asking exactly what the issue is.

Is it that hard for you to face the fact that this engine problem on the 8 is starting to pop up more and more frequently, and not something to be taken of lightly?

canzoomer

He is not a pot-stirrer.

it was a genuine concern.
One I have already shared with Mazda.
Sure, I am getting a new engine.
Will it share the same issues as the one before it?

I want some re-assurance from them about what has been fixed on it before I accept it back.

It will be 4 weeks since the engine died as of Tuesday and I still do not have a working car back.

I don't want to have to repeat this experience again, thank you very much.

As of now the failure rate is over 1%, and considering the cars have been on the road for 4 months or less, this is becoming an issue as far as I am concerned.

The fact that they sent new everything, and want to send the complete assembly back to Japan tells me they do NOT have the issues all identified yet.

As for the ECU, once I have the engine broken in, I will be testing the fuel ratios again to compare.

-=Zeqs=-

Umm...5 cases on a webboard? Lol...seriously, how many owners of RX-8's are actual members of this webboard, and how many people that are members of this webboard actually own an RX-8? I don't think many japanese RX-8 owners post on here either, with that said, it is an inaccurate belief to state that all the RX-8 or Honda is significantly in trouble.

BTW, out of curiousity, when did you get your S2k? When you got it, was your dealership still marking up the price?

-=Zeqs=-

Dude...you just about qualify for the lemon law, think you'll take advantage?

Skyline Maniac

Opt for the lemon law~ and buy another RX-8 next year when they work out the kinks.

canzoomer

Canada does not have any "lemon law"

What advantage? I just want a working RX-8.

Kev

Canzoomer, I'm not calling you a liar BUT - making statements as significant as this about the car must contain a little more than your word.

I cannot believe a failure rate that high would result in anything less than an immediate recall. Left unchecked over time, the failure rate would increase geometrically.

As I've said, I'm not calling you a liar, please just give me something a little more substantial that your "failure rate is over 1%" and I'll take up the cause.

Kev.

canzoomer

OK, some factual info:
When my engine died, and Mazda was not able to respond easily with an ETA for replacement I found it a bitodd, as i had heard they had brought some spare engines over for replacements.
I contacted two parts people I know at Mazda dealers. One in Canada and one in USA.
They were able to look up the inventory levels over the previous month and a half, incoming shipments, and current stocks.
At that time, over 3 weeks ag, they found that:
8 engines had come to Canada and were all shipped to dealers.
54 engines had come to USA and had all been shipped out.
It turns out my engine did NOT go into inventory, but was brought over specially to be directed to the dealer with my car, so is not in the above figures.
In the interval of the last 3 weeks I know of 4 other replacements done, also above and beyond that quantity.

I count at least 67 engines.

Mazda had earlier announced the were bringing 700 RX-8's to Canada and around 4,000 to USA this year. Sales figures posted by Mazda reported over 8,000 RX-8'sold so far , worldwide, including Asia, N. America, Australia, etc.
I do not know if the recent European deliveries count in these totals.

If we count ALLof those in the picture, it is still around a 1% failure rate to date.

Some, mainly in USA are still at dealers. So have not been run long enough for engine failures to occur.

Simple arithmatic tells me there have been AT LEAST a 1.4% failure rate, assuming that ALL of the 4,700 are now in North America, and ALL have some significant mileage.
IF you discount for some at dealers, some maybe not delivered from port, etc. it could easily be at least 2%

I was trying to be conservative based on the facts I gathered, and some basic calculations.

It's OK, I am not upset about being challenged on this statement.

Kev

You don't know that 50 of those engines weren't destined for sale directly to tuners and other testing, local turbo or supercharger development, etc.

I wouldn't know either, but I feel you are making assumptions here.

As I mentioned before, a failure rate of 1% plus this early would result in a total recall ... I have little doubt.

Still, I'll find out what I can tomorrow, using your perspective as a lever.

Kev.