n00b here...
10-06-2003, 10:09 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: South FL
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
n00b here...
Hello everyone. I was looking into gettin an RX-8 as soon as my lease is up on my current car, 2002 GTI 1.8t. I've been doing some research here and decided to register, it's a cool site.
Just some ?'s though...
1) Whats going on with the 1/4 mile times. Mazda and every mag states it's a mid 14sec car, yet the people who have actually run their cars aren't even seeing a run close to that, low 15s from what i've seen (yes, i know some have gone lower using G-Techs, i need real world times..not G-Tech times.)
2) What about the low Dyno #'s? Why are some people dynoing 175-185ish whp stock and some people are dynoing the same, if not lower, with exhaust mods
. Meanwhile 1 person dynoed at 197whp, actually that was on race gas..nevermind.
Just to give you an idea...My car bone stock ran a 14.9 @ 92mph, after being chipped(upped the boost from 12psi to 19-20psi) and getting an intake i ran a 14.3 @ 98mph. Bone stock dynos of '02+ 1.8Ts are anywhere from 165-175whp. I dynoed at 171whp stock and 193whp after chip/intake.
The reason why i tell you this is b/c i love the RX-8, but after seeing the poor 1/4 mile times and dynos...how can i justify buying a $30k+ car, when my GTI which was $20k performs better after $550 in go mods.
I actually had a little run in with an older man in a blue RX-8 recently. He saw me turning and sped up next to me. He asked me to give him a little run..i obliged. We went 3 times, twice from a 30-35mph roll and once from a dig. From a roll, i put an easy 1.5-2 cars on him by 85-90mph, both times. He did better from a dig, it was even through my 1st gear, 2nd gear i start to pull, wind out 3rd and i had him by about 1.5 cars. Needless to say, we were BOTH shocked. I was shocked b/c i thought the car had something like 230+hp. He was shocked b/c my little VW took him.
That is what lead me here. I wanted to figure out why i beat him like i did. Then i come here and see low 15 sec runs by pretty much everyone who has run their car....i dont care about what Mazda or any Renesis publications say, i want real world numbers. This is somewhat dissapointing, low 90mph traps are my car ran stock, which is basically a low 15 sec car, even though i ran a 14.9 and some have run lower, 14.7 is the best i've seen.
Anyways, sorry about babbling on, just trying to figure out how i could justify purchasing a car thats over$30k, when the car i already have performs better for way cheaper. On top of that, all the other cars in it's class are definately quicker...**** the damn SRT-4 is a low 14sec, 225WHP car for $19K!
Just some ?'s though...
1) Whats going on with the 1/4 mile times. Mazda and every mag states it's a mid 14sec car, yet the people who have actually run their cars aren't even seeing a run close to that, low 15s from what i've seen (yes, i know some have gone lower using G-Techs, i need real world times..not G-Tech times.)
2) What about the low Dyno #'s? Why are some people dynoing 175-185ish whp stock and some people are dynoing the same, if not lower, with exhaust mods
. Meanwhile 1 person dynoed at 197whp, actually that was on race gas..nevermind.Just to give you an idea...My car bone stock ran a 14.9 @ 92mph, after being chipped(upped the boost from 12psi to 19-20psi) and getting an intake i ran a 14.3 @ 98mph. Bone stock dynos of '02+ 1.8Ts are anywhere from 165-175whp. I dynoed at 171whp stock and 193whp after chip/intake.
The reason why i tell you this is b/c i love the RX-8, but after seeing the poor 1/4 mile times and dynos...how can i justify buying a $30k+ car, when my GTI which was $20k performs better after $550 in go mods.
I actually had a little run in with an older man in a blue RX-8 recently. He saw me turning and sped up next to me. He asked me to give him a little run..i obliged. We went 3 times, twice from a 30-35mph roll and once from a dig. From a roll, i put an easy 1.5-2 cars on him by 85-90mph, both times. He did better from a dig, it was even through my 1st gear, 2nd gear i start to pull, wind out 3rd and i had him by about 1.5 cars. Needless to say, we were BOTH shocked. I was shocked b/c i thought the car had something like 230+hp. He was shocked b/c my little VW took him.
That is what lead me here. I wanted to figure out why i beat him like i did. Then i come here and see low 15 sec runs by pretty much everyone who has run their car....i dont care about what Mazda or any Renesis publications say, i want real world numbers. This is somewhat dissapointing, low 90mph traps are my car ran stock, which is basically a low 15 sec car, even though i ran a 14.9 and some have run lower, 14.7 is the best i've seen.
Anyways, sorry about babbling on, just trying to figure out how i could justify purchasing a car thats over$30k, when the car i already have performs better for way cheaper. On top of that, all the other cars in it's class are definately quicker...**** the damn SRT-4 is a low 14sec, 225WHP car for $19K!
10-06-2003, 10:57 PM
#3
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: South FL
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by SGC
1. Search
2. Stop Trolling
SGC
1. Search
2. Stop Trolling
SGC
Nice way to welcome a possible owner ***, what since i dont already own a RX-8 im a troll?? Hopefully the rest of you aren't so rude to new members.
10-06-2003, 11:13 PM
#4
Blue By You
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 8,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know where you're coming from GTI, and it's a sore subject around here. I would answer what I feel the answer is but maybe someone that actually owns the car will be kind enough to address some of your questions. Overall I think you're going to get a lot of flames but maybe some people will leave it alone with what's been said.
Goodluck,
Ike
Goodluck,
Ike
10-06-2003, 11:21 PM
#5
Based on much of what I've read here - not to mention numerous magazine road tests - the RX-8 DOES perform better than a GTI. Now, is your VW faster in a straight line than the RX-8? Possibly. But that is not the same as saying it "performs better". Considering the entire package - i.e. the RX-8's 50/50 balance, rear-wheel drive, Miata-like shifter, independent rear suspension and fine steering response, it appears the RX-8 is the car that "performs better". In fact, I suspect it's not even close. (And in case you're wondering, I drive an '02 GTI 337.)
10-06-2003, 11:39 PM
#6
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've done a LOT LOT LOT of reading on here and after everything I've read I've come to one conclusion:
Mazda choked the ECU for emmissions purposes which cut about 30 horsepower from the top end and they lied about it. Nuff said!
Everyone can come to their own conclusions. This just happens to be mine. Every piece of evidence I've seen points towards it. The only arguments on the other side are all speculation. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong, but it's lookin less and less likely all the time. We just have to prey than canzoomer can fix something up to give back the rest of the power
Mazda choked the ECU for emmissions purposes which cut about 30 horsepower from the top end and they lied about it. Nuff said!
Everyone can come to their own conclusions. This just happens to be mine. Every piece of evidence I've seen points towards it. The only arguments on the other side are all speculation. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong, but it's lookin less and less likely all the time. We just have to prey than canzoomer can fix something up to give back the rest of the power
10-06-2003, 11:46 PM
#7
zoom freaking zoom
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Welcome 19!
Have you test driven the 8 yet or on more than one occasion?
Yes, if you want to look at numbers on paper... the 8 comes up lacking in power and fuel economy... hopefully the cars settle in after 5k and things improve slightly.
The overall package of the 8 is what attacted me to it when I was looking for a new ride. Other cars were faster and had better economy... but the 8 was the most fun I've ever had on a test drive (3 of them, all over 20 miles).
In the end... it's your money and decision. I'd say 99% of the 8 owners are happy with their purchase/lease. I'm loving my car!
Best of luck in your search.
Have you test driven the 8 yet or on more than one occasion?
Yes, if you want to look at numbers on paper... the 8 comes up lacking in power and fuel economy... hopefully the cars settle in after 5k and things improve slightly.
The overall package of the 8 is what attacted me to it when I was looking for a new ride. Other cars were faster and had better economy... but the 8 was the most fun I've ever had on a test drive (3 of them, all over 20 miles).
In the end... it's your money and decision. I'd say 99% of the 8 owners are happy with their purchase/lease. I'm loving my car!
Best of luck in your search.
10-06-2003, 11:46 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did he wind her up before he tried to take off or did he take off and wind her up?
Here is my conjecture (based on a lot of data, but referencing the Car & Track tests)...
I think this car is equal or better than other cars, but only when done right. Car and Track's tests show that a Z get the best times, um, dumping the clutch at 2000rpm (if I remember right) and it redlines at 6500rpm(right?). The RX-8 does its best times at 7500rpm and redlines at 9500rpm. Both are harsh and squeal the tires, but the describe the Z's as mild and the RX-8's as teeth chattering.
I am fairly certain that, even as fast as the RX-8 spins up, that it takes it longer to reach 7500rpm than the Z does to take 2000rpm. So if both racers just mash the pedal they got to 'catch up' to that perfect start. This is where the RX-8 is slower. Also, since the RX-8 torque curve is fairly straight while a Z's (and a GTI's) have a big hump where the torque climbs faster for less RPM rise I think it loses by not winding up This also means if the RX-8 is late getting to is peak power range it pays by watching the other car pull away.
You can't decide you want to be fast after the race has started. You have to start the race before you ever move forward by taking the RPMs up to the sweet range. Of course, this is hard on everything and will definitely get the everyone's attention. But then your times will compete with the other big boy cars. Of course, pedal mashing in an RX-8 should still 'kill' almost any mortal car.
Anyway, that's my theory.
milo
Here is my conjecture (based on a lot of data, but referencing the Car & Track tests)...
I think this car is equal or better than other cars, but only when done right. Car and Track's tests show that a Z get the best times, um, dumping the clutch at 2000rpm (if I remember right) and it redlines at 6500rpm(right?). The RX-8 does its best times at 7500rpm and redlines at 9500rpm. Both are harsh and squeal the tires, but the describe the Z's as mild and the RX-8's as teeth chattering.
I am fairly certain that, even as fast as the RX-8 spins up, that it takes it longer to reach 7500rpm than the Z does to take 2000rpm. So if both racers just mash the pedal they got to 'catch up' to that perfect start. This is where the RX-8 is slower. Also, since the RX-8 torque curve is fairly straight while a Z's (and a GTI's) have a big hump where the torque climbs faster for less RPM rise I think it loses by not winding up This also means if the RX-8 is late getting to is peak power range it pays by watching the other car pull away.
You can't decide you want to be fast after the race has started. You have to start the race before you ever move forward by taking the RPMs up to the sweet range. Of course, this is hard on everything and will definitely get the everyone's attention. But then your times will compete with the other big boy cars. Of course, pedal mashing in an RX-8 should still 'kill' almost any mortal car.
Anyway, that's my theory.
milo
10-07-2003, 12:00 AM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yo 19,
After reading your post, I think you're pretty well verse of what the Rx-8 is all about. You already have all the figures at hand. You've more or less figure out what the 8 is capable of.
If your equation of purchasing a car is power=$$$.
I can say mate, the 8 ain't for you.
After reading your post, I think you're pretty well verse of what the Rx-8 is all about. You already have all the figures at hand. You've more or less figure out what the 8 is capable of.
If your equation of purchasing a car is power=$$$.
I can say mate, the 8 ain't for you.
10-07-2003, 12:26 AM
#10
Registered
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you've made the arguments. The RX 8 is not a straight line road eater. If you want that then I would get an SRT 4.
What the RX 8 does is it handles curves and hills and real driving . . . not traps. If you want to go to the track, don't buy this car.
I had a road eating VW a number of years ago. It was fast in a straight line, but the suspension was a junky Macpherson strut with high amounts of camber to keep it on the road in a turn. It worked most of the time, mostly when it was new, but when it got really wound up, the car was just dangerous. I got very good at beating porsches with it back in the day, and ran it up to 137 miles per hour once, which was insanely dangerous because of the lack of a proper suspension.
The RX 8 is more of a balanced car with a suspension and chassis rigidity that absolutely demolishes anything ever built by VW. The front double wishbones and rear multilink does a much better job of keeping the tires firmly and flatly planted on the road than what you are driving. That's what you spend the money for. The power is enough to get the car down the road. In the same way that I used to beat prosches, an SRT 4 will eat the RX 8 for breakfast . . . until you hit a real curve at speed. Then you'll die.
As an example, I once raced a 911 from 60 - 120+ miles per hour four times in row. I ended up about a length and a half in front of him each time, but at 115+ my VW became extremely unstable and hard to handle. The porsche just hunkered down to the road, and that was because the posche had invested real engineering and build dollars into the suspension and chassis of the car that VW never spent, hence my car cost half as much and was functionally dangerous doing what the engine was capable of. That's the difference between the 8 and an SRT 4 or a GTI. Handling is what you would be paying for if you bought one. If you want straight line speed, there are alot of other cars out there that can do that better than an 8 for the money.
-H
What the RX 8 does is it handles curves and hills and real driving . . . not traps. If you want to go to the track, don't buy this car.
I had a road eating VW a number of years ago. It was fast in a straight line, but the suspension was a junky Macpherson strut with high amounts of camber to keep it on the road in a turn. It worked most of the time, mostly when it was new, but when it got really wound up, the car was just dangerous. I got very good at beating porsches with it back in the day, and ran it up to 137 miles per hour once, which was insanely dangerous because of the lack of a proper suspension.
The RX 8 is more of a balanced car with a suspension and chassis rigidity that absolutely demolishes anything ever built by VW. The front double wishbones and rear multilink does a much better job of keeping the tires firmly and flatly planted on the road than what you are driving. That's what you spend the money for. The power is enough to get the car down the road. In the same way that I used to beat prosches, an SRT 4 will eat the RX 8 for breakfast . . . until you hit a real curve at speed. Then you'll die.
As an example, I once raced a 911 from 60 - 120+ miles per hour four times in row. I ended up about a length and a half in front of him each time, but at 115+ my VW became extremely unstable and hard to handle. The porsche just hunkered down to the road, and that was because the posche had invested real engineering and build dollars into the suspension and chassis of the car that VW never spent, hence my car cost half as much and was functionally dangerous doing what the engine was capable of. That's the difference between the 8 and an SRT 4 or a GTI. Handling is what you would be paying for if you bought one. If you want straight line speed, there are alot of other cars out there that can do that better than an 8 for the money.
-H
10-07-2003, 01:14 AM
#11
Blue By You
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 8,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Haze
I think you've made the arguments. The RX 8 is not a straight line road eater. If you want that then I would get an SRT 4.
What the RX 8 does is it handles curves and hills and real driving . . . not traps. If you want to go to the track, don't buy this car.
I had a road eating VW a number of years ago. It was fast in a straight line, but the suspension was a junky Macpherson strut with high amounts of camber to keep it on the road in a turn. It worked most of the time, mostly when it was new, but when it got really wound up, the car was just dangerous. I got very good at beating porsches with it back in the day, and ran it up to 137 miles per hour once, which was insanely dangerous because of the lack of a proper suspension.
The RX 8 is more of a balanced car with a suspension and chassis rigidity that absolutely demolishes anything ever built by VW. The front double wishbones and rear multilink does a much better job of keeping the tires firmly and flatly planted on the road than what you are driving. That's what you spend the money for. The power is enough to get the car down the road. In the same way that I used to beat prosches, an SRT 4 will eat the RX 8 for breakfast . . . until you hit a real curve at speed. Then you'll die.
As an example, I once raced a 911 from 60 - 120+ miles per hour four times in row. I ended up about a length and a half in front of him each time, but at 115+ my VW became extremely unstable and hard to handle. The porsche just hunkered down to the road, and that was because the posche had invested real engineering and build dollars into the suspension and chassis of the car that VW never spent, hence my car cost half as much and was functionally dangerous doing what the engine was capable of. That's the difference between the 8 and an SRT 4 or a GTI. Handling is what you would be paying for if you bought one. If you want straight line speed, there are alot of other cars out there that can do that better than an 8 for the money.
-H
I think you've made the arguments. The RX 8 is not a straight line road eater. If you want that then I would get an SRT 4.
What the RX 8 does is it handles curves and hills and real driving . . . not traps. If you want to go to the track, don't buy this car.
I had a road eating VW a number of years ago. It was fast in a straight line, but the suspension was a junky Macpherson strut with high amounts of camber to keep it on the road in a turn. It worked most of the time, mostly when it was new, but when it got really wound up, the car was just dangerous. I got very good at beating porsches with it back in the day, and ran it up to 137 miles per hour once, which was insanely dangerous because of the lack of a proper suspension.
The RX 8 is more of a balanced car with a suspension and chassis rigidity that absolutely demolishes anything ever built by VW. The front double wishbones and rear multilink does a much better job of keeping the tires firmly and flatly planted on the road than what you are driving. That's what you spend the money for. The power is enough to get the car down the road. In the same way that I used to beat prosches, an SRT 4 will eat the RX 8 for breakfast . . . until you hit a real curve at speed. Then you'll die.
As an example, I once raced a 911 from 60 - 120+ miles per hour four times in row. I ended up about a length and a half in front of him each time, but at 115+ my VW became extremely unstable and hard to handle. The porsche just hunkered down to the road, and that was because the posche had invested real engineering and build dollars into the suspension and chassis of the car that VW never spent, hence my car cost half as much and was functionally dangerous doing what the engine was capable of. That's the difference between the 8 and an SRT 4 or a GTI. Handling is what you would be paying for if you bought one. If you want straight line speed, there are alot of other cars out there that can do that better than an 8 for the money.
-H
With the the 8 you will get a slower, slightly worse handling version of the S2K, but where it trumps the S2k is in practicality by having backseats. The G35 has more grunt but is heavier and less tossable. The 350Z has more grunt but lacks the backseats and has a stiffer ride. The STi and EVO will outhandle and outpace the RX-8, have even more practicality but the looks turn off some people as does the harsher ride, which is more evident on the EVO. For the interior people the RX-8 wins out when compared to the EVO and STi as well. GTIs are not known for their handling, the R32 may be a better comparison and may cut into the RX-8 sales a bit. The new TL and the new Legacy may make you question more in time why get an RX-8 though they lack the sportscar image. The RX-8 isn't for people that want the fastest import, or the best handling import, or the most practical. But it is a car that is going to be a great fit for some people out there lookign for a good combo of performance, practicality, and uniqueness, as well as for those people that have a strong affection for the rotary engine.
Ike
10-07-2003, 03:38 AM
#12
19psi_GTI :- EVO Magazine in the Uk tested the UK spec RX-8 (231ps/228bhp - probably close to US performance) against a Golf R32.
In straight line speed the R32 won, but only just. They chose the RX-8 over the golf because of driving dynamics etc - but it was a close result.
I assume your GTi(stock) is a little off the pace of the R32?
Oh and I still dont buy the STI/Evo handling better thing. Yes, because of their 4WD they can get power down quicker out of corners. But thats all, they weigh more(a lot) and that can only hurt their handling. Both may be setup better too, but far to harsh to be an easy daily drive, getting a car to go round corners and be livable with isnt as easy.
In straight line speed the R32 won, but only just. They chose the RX-8 over the golf because of driving dynamics etc - but it was a close result.
I assume your GTi(stock) is a little off the pace of the R32?
Oh and I still dont buy the STI/Evo handling better thing. Yes, because of their 4WD they can get power down quicker out of corners. But thats all, they weigh more(a lot) and that can only hurt their handling. Both may be setup better too, but far to harsh to be an easy daily drive, getting a car to go round corners and be livable with isnt as easy.
Last edited by RobDickinson; 10-07-2003 at 03:40 AM.
10-07-2003, 03:59 AM
#13
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
STi is a piece of junk and its one of the ugliest looking cars ever designed. Any car will go fast in a straight line if you slap on a turbo. And fact is, looks matter and theres no getting around how bad the STi looks. Whos gonna pick up chicks in an STi? Impossible.
10-07-2003, 07:44 AM
#14
Registered
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1)this is all already being discussed
and 2)don't post ANY type of street racing stories. I'm leaving it open for now, but if it gets out of hand at all, I'll close it. And sorry to be abrasive, but these posts are getting very tiring.
and 2)don't post ANY type of street racing stories. I'm leaving it open for now, but if it gets out of hand at all, I'll close it. And sorry to be abrasive, but these posts are getting very tiring.
10-07-2003, 08:28 AM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by IkeWRX
The RX-8 isn't for people that want the fastest import, or the best handling import, or the most practical. But it is a car that is going to be a great fit for some people out there lookign for a good combo of performance, practicality, and uniqueness, as well as for those people that have a strong affection for the rotary engine.
Ike
The RX-8 isn't for people that want the fastest import, or the best handling import, or the most practical. But it is a car that is going to be a great fit for some people out there lookign for a good combo of performance, practicality, and uniqueness, as well as for those people that have a strong affection for the rotary engine.
Ike
19psi. All I can say is go drive one. You'll know if it's for you or not when you get behind the wheel.
10-07-2003, 10:12 AM
#16
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: South FL
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WOW, thanks everyone for your feedback, unlike SGC, what a dick!
As mentioned, one of the reasons i really like the 8 is b/c it has actual back seats which is pretty much a need for my next car. I haven't test drove one yet, soon though.
About the Evo testing between the R32 and the 8, was that particular 8 a pre-production model? I've seen some really good videos of R32s whooping up on other cars in it's class, which makes it kind of hard to beleive that it barely beat the 8...even if the 8 handles a little better, the r32 has more hp and should easily pull away from it in the straights. My car as it is right now, should be on par acceleration wise with a stock R32, handling is a completely different story. Since my GTI is a lease, i didnt want to bother with the suspension at all..it already has the"sport suspension" which is fine for daily driving, but garbage it the twisties.
I actually had put $700 down on the R32 and was the 2nd person on the waiting list at my local VW dealer. Then i read a lot of things on VWVortex about how owners are complaining of rattles and weird noises and such. A few owners have already even sold theirs. After reading those stories, i decided to get my deposit back and wait until the car actually gets here so i can drive it for myself. Also, the UK spec models come with HIDs, DSG gearbox, Navigation etc... and from what has been said on Vortex, we will probably not see those items on the US car, which is very dissapointing, especially when the car will be upwards of $28k.
So i guess the general consensus is that the 8 is a great handler, looks amazing inside and out...but really isnt a straight line performer. I know everybody is saying that what i'd be paying for is handling, but imo...i need a mid 14sec stock car if im going to be spending over $30k on it...again, this is my opinion.
RussellP: How come every post i've seen that you've written has been negative? Looks are subjective, just b/c YOU don't like the way the STI or EVO looks, doesnt make it fact like you seem to spout off. I think the STI and EVO are just menacing looking, and they both have the power to back it up. And how can you say the STI is a garbage, where are your facts to back your stupid *** statements up?? Oh by the way, i saw one of the hottest girls i've seen in a long time 2 days ago at class...guess what she was driving...you got it, a White STI, modded none the less. So theres goes your theory pal!
As mentioned, one of the reasons i really like the 8 is b/c it has actual back seats which is pretty much a need for my next car. I haven't test drove one yet, soon though.
About the Evo testing between the R32 and the 8, was that particular 8 a pre-production model? I've seen some really good videos of R32s whooping up on other cars in it's class, which makes it kind of hard to beleive that it barely beat the 8...even if the 8 handles a little better, the r32 has more hp and should easily pull away from it in the straights. My car as it is right now, should be on par acceleration wise with a stock R32, handling is a completely different story. Since my GTI is a lease, i didnt want to bother with the suspension at all..it already has the"sport suspension" which is fine for daily driving, but garbage it the twisties.
I actually had put $700 down on the R32 and was the 2nd person on the waiting list at my local VW dealer. Then i read a lot of things on VWVortex about how owners are complaining of rattles and weird noises and such. A few owners have already even sold theirs. After reading those stories, i decided to get my deposit back and wait until the car actually gets here so i can drive it for myself. Also, the UK spec models come with HIDs, DSG gearbox, Navigation etc... and from what has been said on Vortex, we will probably not see those items on the US car, which is very dissapointing, especially when the car will be upwards of $28k.
So i guess the general consensus is that the 8 is a great handler, looks amazing inside and out...but really isnt a straight line performer. I know everybody is saying that what i'd be paying for is handling, but imo...i need a mid 14sec stock car if im going to be spending over $30k on it...again, this is my opinion.
RussellP: How come every post i've seen that you've written has been negative? Looks are subjective, just b/c YOU don't like the way the STI or EVO looks, doesnt make it fact like you seem to spout off. I think the STI and EVO are just menacing looking, and they both have the power to back it up. And how can you say the STI is a garbage, where are your facts to back your stupid *** statements up?? Oh by the way, i saw one of the hottest girls i've seen in a long time 2 days ago at class...guess what she was driving...you got it, a White STI, modded none the less. So theres goes your theory pal!
10-07-2003, 10:14 AM
#17
Registered
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Kuf
Wow, for once, Ike hit the nail on the head.
19psi. All I can say is go drive one. You'll know if it's for you or not when you get behind the wheel.
Wow, for once, Ike hit the nail on the head.
19psi. All I can say is go drive one. You'll know if it's for you or not when you get behind the wheel.
-H
10-07-2003, 10:19 AM
#18
I'm certain EVO tested a UK 231ps car against a UK R32.
The R32 only has a few more HP than the RX-8, and weighs 200kg more. So ther wont be that much in it in a straight line.
As for STi's, subaru recently came way down a list on warenty claims (which mazda toped). The impretza , when it needs work, which is often, needs expensive work.
The average cost of a mazda repair was around £250. The average cost of a subaru repair was £1,000, and there was many more.
Gona go find the data .... here we go :
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...826870,00.html
- or -
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...58651&f=57&h=0
(same story).
Heres the EVO review thread :
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...threadid=10561
The R32 only has a few more HP than the RX-8, and weighs 200kg more. So ther wont be that much in it in a straight line.
As for STi's, subaru recently came way down a list on warenty claims (which mazda toped). The impretza , when it needs work, which is often, needs expensive work.
The average cost of a mazda repair was around £250. The average cost of a subaru repair was £1,000, and there was many more.
Gona go find the data .... here we go :
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...826870,00.html
- or -
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...58651&f=57&h=0
(same story).
Heres the EVO review thread :
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...threadid=10561
10-07-2003, 01:12 PM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ft. Walton Beach, Florida
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check out some of the latest autoX results posted in the competition section, and take Ike with you. The constant remarks of looks great (but, and not too bad of a handling car, for a four door, can get put to rest. This is a great handling car on any standard. Notice where the stock and modded WRX's, mustangs, vettes, and Ikes favorite comparison the S2000 all stack up. It appears under road conditions this car has the perfect blend of power, weight, and handling for a very good price.
10-07-2003, 04:51 PM
#21
Blue By You
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 8,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
Check out some of the latest autoX results posted in the competition section, and take Ike with you. The constant remarks of looks great (but, and not too bad of a handling car, for a four door, can get put to rest. This is a great handling car on any standard. Notice where the stock and modded WRX's, mustangs, vettes, and Ikes favorite comparison the S2000 all stack up. It appears under road conditions this car has the perfect blend of power, weight, and handling for a very good price.
Check out some of the latest autoX results posted in the competition section, and take Ike with you. The constant remarks of looks great (but, and not too bad of a handling car, for a four door, can get put to rest. This is a great handling car on any standard. Notice where the stock and modded WRX's, mustangs, vettes, and Ikes favorite comparison the S2000 all stack up. It appears under road conditions this car has the perfect blend of power, weight, and handling for a very good price.
Here's the results to the autox I was at on Sun.
http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Solo/2...scca8class.pdf
Autox is all about the driver and who wants to spend the most money to make their car better. Stock for stock given equal drivers the S2K WILL beat the RX-8, that does not at all mean the RX-8 can't compete and win at the regional level and sneak in eventually on the national level. In fact I challenge anyone in the midwest to come to Milwaukee and take out those "poor handling" Z28s in FS or the MR2s in ES with their RX-8. The Z28 is not a better handling car than the RX-8 but I'd be amazed if someone could take out those guys simply because they are amazing drivers. The RX-8 is a great handling car, but I highly doubt it will outhandle or outrun a S2K, EVO, or STi stock vs. stock given equal drivers on a real race track. The RX-8 is a great car and is better suited to autox than the STi and EVO most likely, that does not make it a better handling car. Nor does it mean there is anything wrong with any of those cars, it's just a different car... Hell, the M3 doesn't do that great in most autoxs I've seen, does that mean all the cars that beat them regularly are better handling/faster cars? On a side note you seem angry Chuck, maybe you need to relax a bit...
Ike
10-07-2003, 09:42 PM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ft. Walton Beach, Florida
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IKE: Your autox link has no RX-8 comparisons, that I saw. I have read a lot of autox results, and Houston is one of the first with an RX-8 in it. There was a large and competive field in Houston. I could have written your biased post for you. Can't you just read the facts and admit that NO RX-8 at this wide open event had its "*** handed to it", I think is your favorite term. The RX-8 in question was stock and so was the S2000 and many others.
So even when fact on this new car do come out, you will ignore them or discredit them. You were quick to condecendingly congratulate the 15.2 quarter mile, because that was in line with your misconceptions about the 8. You are the angry person trolling a board of a car you don't have, and have made clear you would not be caught dead driving. Constantly discrediting every piece of info that fall outside of your biased beliefs.
I'm sure you read the post and noticed that the RX-8 beat everything in almost every class, including a boat load of WRX's.
But thats okay, thats why I posted and used your name so you couldn't ignore the threads, and post, that go against all that you have been spouting for months. Your time is running out on this forum, numbers are going to continue to come in that will continue to discredit your assumtions about the 8.
So even when fact on this new car do come out, you will ignore them or discredit them. You were quick to condecendingly congratulate the 15.2 quarter mile, because that was in line with your misconceptions about the 8. You are the angry person trolling a board of a car you don't have, and have made clear you would not be caught dead driving. Constantly discrediting every piece of info that fall outside of your biased beliefs.
I'm sure you read the post and noticed that the RX-8 beat everything in almost every class, including a boat load of WRX's.
But thats okay, thats why I posted and used your name so you couldn't ignore the threads, and post, that go against all that you have been spouting for months. Your time is running out on this forum, numbers are going to continue to come in that will continue to discredit your assumtions about the 8.
10-07-2003, 10:12 PM
#23
Blue By You
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 8,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
IKE: Your autox link has no RX-8 comparisons, that I saw. I have read a lot of autox results, and Houston is one of the first with an RX-8 in it. There was a large and competive field in Houston. I could have written your biased post for you. Can't you just read the facts and admit that NO RX-8 at this wide open event had its "*** handed to it", I think is your favorite term. The RX-8 in question was stock and so was the S2000 and many others.
So even when fact on this new car do come out, you will ignore them or discredit them. You were quick to condecendingly congratulate the 15.2 quarter mile, because that was in line with your misconceptions about the 8. You are the angry person trolling a board of a car you don't have, and have made clear you would not be caught dead driving. Constantly discrediting every piece of info that fall outside of your biased beliefs.
I'm sure you read the post and noticed that the RX-8 beat everything in almost every class, including a boat load of WRX's.
But thats okay, thats why I posted and used your name so you couldn't ignore the threads, and post, that go against all that you have been spouting for months. Your time is running out on this forum, numbers are going to continue to come in that will continue to discredit your assumtions about the 8.
IKE: Your autox link has no RX-8 comparisons, that I saw. I have read a lot of autox results, and Houston is one of the first with an RX-8 in it. There was a large and competive field in Houston. I could have written your biased post for you. Can't you just read the facts and admit that NO RX-8 at this wide open event had its "*** handed to it", I think is your favorite term. The RX-8 in question was stock and so was the S2000 and many others.
So even when fact on this new car do come out, you will ignore them or discredit them. You were quick to condecendingly congratulate the 15.2 quarter mile, because that was in line with your misconceptions about the 8. You are the angry person trolling a board of a car you don't have, and have made clear you would not be caught dead driving. Constantly discrediting every piece of info that fall outside of your biased beliefs.
I'm sure you read the post and noticed that the RX-8 beat everything in almost every class, including a boat load of WRX's.
But thats okay, thats why I posted and used your name so you couldn't ignore the threads, and post, that go against all that you have been spouting for months. Your time is running out on this forum, numbers are going to continue to come in that will continue to discredit your assumtions about the 8.
Did you even read my post?
10-07-2003, 10:54 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ft. Walton Beach, Florida
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes Ike, I have read way too many of your posts. You posted,
"The RX-8 is a great handling car, but I highly doubt it will outhandle or outrun a S2K, EVO, or STi stock vs. stock given equal drivers on a real race track."
On the track of choice that day in Houston, that all were competing on, it did compete and outrun all that you mention. Again, unless the RX-8 meets your narrow vision of competition it is discredited. IT WON IKE, THERE IS A TROPHY MARK NEXT TO HIS NAME. Somebody other than the great Ike decided to consider this a competition against your better judgement.
You posted, "The RX-8 is a great car and is better suited to autox than the STi and EVO most likely, that does not make it a better handling car."
Yes it does IKE, in this competition, on this day it was a better handling car, better driven, better everything, not just in its class, but in all stock classes.
You posted, "Hell, the M3 doesn't do that great in most autoxs I've seen, does that mean all the cars that beat them regularly are better handling/faster cars?"
YES it does IKE, using your yardstick of measured competition being the sole purpose to own a car, if the M3 never wins and is always beat, it is not the best handling/fastest car.
You posted, "On a side note you seem angry Chuck"
Yes IKE I am angry at your continuous condecending "better than thou" attitude that permiates all of your posts. If we all agree that you are a better driver with a faster car, would you go away? NO. You attack everything good about the RX-8, like you have been hired by Subi to discredit and deter potential RX-8 buyers away from this fantastic (IMO) car. Yes, there are people who come to this site to learn from owners the good and not so good things about this car. You spout a lot of opinion about the RX-8 for a guy who took a ten minute test drive.
So yes IKE I did read (and did not agree with) another of your post. RANT OVER!
"The RX-8 is a great handling car, but I highly doubt it will outhandle or outrun a S2K, EVO, or STi stock vs. stock given equal drivers on a real race track."
On the track of choice that day in Houston, that all were competing on, it did compete and outrun all that you mention. Again, unless the RX-8 meets your narrow vision of competition it is discredited. IT WON IKE, THERE IS A TROPHY MARK NEXT TO HIS NAME. Somebody other than the great Ike decided to consider this a competition against your better judgement.
You posted, "The RX-8 is a great car and is better suited to autox than the STi and EVO most likely, that does not make it a better handling car."
Yes it does IKE, in this competition, on this day it was a better handling car, better driven, better everything, not just in its class, but in all stock classes.
You posted, "Hell, the M3 doesn't do that great in most autoxs I've seen, does that mean all the cars that beat them regularly are better handling/faster cars?"
YES it does IKE, using your yardstick of measured competition being the sole purpose to own a car, if the M3 never wins and is always beat, it is not the best handling/fastest car.
You posted, "On a side note you seem angry Chuck"
Yes IKE I am angry at your continuous condecending "better than thou" attitude that permiates all of your posts. If we all agree that you are a better driver with a faster car, would you go away? NO. You attack everything good about the RX-8, like you have been hired by Subi to discredit and deter potential RX-8 buyers away from this fantastic (IMO) car. Yes, there are people who come to this site to learn from owners the good and not so good things about this car. You spout a lot of opinion about the RX-8 for a guy who took a ten minute test drive.
So yes IKE I did read (and did not agree with) another of your post. RANT OVER!