Need help from a car salesman
12-10-2007, 12:58 PM
#51
Vtak just kicked in yo!!
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Comes from the perception that car dealers will do anything to their customers. That goes back a long way. The whole negotiation process leaves people with a very bad taste. The price dickering crap is a big reason why I keep cars a very long time.
It used to be even worse, until federal law required that dealers at least disclose a list price. Remember the days before stickers?
Buying my RX-8 was a pleasure because it was S-Plan. No negotiation. I knew I was getting a decent deal. Maybe not rock bottom, but decent. And the dealer was making a fair profit. We could both relax and enjoy the car.
Ken
It used to be even worse, until federal law required that dealers at least disclose a list price. Remember the days before stickers?
Buying my RX-8 was a pleasure because it was S-Plan. No negotiation. I knew I was getting a decent deal. Maybe not rock bottom, but decent. And the dealer was making a fair profit. We could both relax and enjoy the car.
Ken
12-10-2007, 01:05 PM
#52
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as a buyer (not seller). I always negotiate period. happy with price or not. why pass a good opportunity to pay even less for the sticker if they are willing to play with the numbers? 19k for a 2005 I would pay.. but would be happier if they would let it go for 17.5-18k. why not?
12-10-2007, 01:09 PM
#53
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12-10-2007, 01:10 PM
#54
Vtak just kicked in yo!!
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as a buyer (not seller). I always negotiate period. happy with price or not. why pass a good opportunity to pay even less for the sticker if they are willing to play with the numbers? 19k for a 2005 I would pay.. but would be happier if they would let it go for 17.5-18k. why not?
12-10-2007, 01:18 PM
#57
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Oh hell yea, I negotiate for everything! But point being is theres always people that no matter how much the dealer budges and trys to earn their business, theyrr still dissatified!! Alot of times dealers will take a loss of money just to get rid of a unit and the buyers are still not satisfied!!!
12-10-2007, 01:20 PM
#58
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Only if it were a sport. He says it's a GT and that the Vin is comming up sport. They should have offered him around $13000 if it's a GT. He could probably talk that up to $13,500. There is a price difference between the GT and Sport in trade value.
Sportrider, find out why your Vin says Sport and get it changed to GT if That's what you have.
12-10-2007, 01:21 PM
#59
Insanely Yellow
I think that's one the truest statements out here ...
Your car is only worth:
... what someone is going to be willing to pay for it.
Which generally speaking ...
... is always far less than what you think it's worth.
Your car is only worth:
... what someone is going to be willing to pay for it.
Which generally speaking ...
... is always far less than what you think it's worth.
12-10-2007, 01:24 PM
#60
Vtak just kicked in yo!!
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13000-14000 if they overallow on the trade. Dealerships usually won't put alot of money into a car that isn't at high demand. Most dealers look on theyre computers to auctions to see what theyre going for and offer u that then overallow a grand to make the customer happy
12-10-2007, 01:35 PM
#61
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Uncertainty is hell.
I've been happiest in deals where I did not dicker over price. Besides my S-Plan RX-8, I've bought a couple of cars that I knew were going for sticker. When I bought a VW Rabbit in the middle of a fuel crisis, the price was the price. But the salesman put his energy into finding one that was the color I wanted and had the equipment I wanted. Great experience, super dealership.
On deals where negotiation was involved...
o Had a Toyota salesman tell me what my wife wanted was not available at all. Real story was he wanted to sell something he had in stock, rather than do a factory order.
o Had a Honda salesman tell me another dealer's price was low because that dealer was selling grey market cars smuggled in through Peurto Rico, and did not meet US safety and emissions standards.
o After buying a Honda, had to endure the salesman and acting sales manager do their shtick about how much trouble they were going to be in when the boss found out how little they us sold the car for.
o "What would it take to put you in this car today..."
Always walked away from negotiations counting my fingers, not sure if I reall still had all of them.
Ken
12-10-2007, 01:37 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by mike73737
Great thread. In the end it's probably always worth more to you than you can sell it for.
I think he means sellers remorse. Alot of guys here express that when they move on from thier beloved 8. It's a nice car.
Great thread. In the end it's probably always worth more to you than you can sell it for.
I think he means sellers remorse. Alot of guys here express that when they move on from thier beloved 8. It's a nice car.
12-10-2007, 01:40 PM
#63
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yea I get what he was saying, sometimes its tough to accept that these 04's are only worth 11-14k. I sometimes can't believe it, I mean they were 30k 4 years ago and look new but hey, thats supply and demand!
12-10-2007, 01:42 PM
#64
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Yup, Black book is the dealers trade- in not the cars's real worth. Dealers have to figure in prep, advertizing, lot space and time, salespeople and time, and general over head and still make a $1000 profit when they sell your trade. Black book is generally $1500 to $2000 less than true blue book value. True bluebook is what most people will sell thier car for outright with a little padding for negotiation. Buyers feels good if they can talk you down a few hundred from asking price. I only trade cars If dealers come close to blue book and I got the new car deal i wanted or I think there's something wrong with the car and not worth blue book. It makes econcomical sense to sell outright if your car is clean and mileage is average for it's age. All it takes is one weekend and an ad in the local classifeds. You will save thousands.
Keep in mind if you do trade what you get for the trade is deducted from the new car price and that price will be what you pay sales tax on. With that and what the dealer offered me for my last trade on a new car, brought my trade close to blue book. It should be considered when trading in a car.
Keep in mind if you do trade what you get for the trade is deducted from the new car price and that price will be what you pay sales tax on. With that and what the dealer offered me for my last trade on a new car, brought my trade close to blue book. It should be considered when trading in a car.
As for the second part of your comment, that is state based. In Md they tax the sale price, but PA they tax the difference. Check with yoru state, or I found on Edmunds the other day a state by state breakdown of tax laws.
12-10-2007, 01:47 PM
#65
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Blah, Blah, blah... you had me at "true bluebook".... there is only one book you should really be concerned with and that is a checkbook. A car is WORTH exactly what someoen will pay for it, end of discussion.
As for the second part of your comment, that is state based. In Md they tax the sale price, but PA they tax the difference. Check with yoru state, or I found on Edmunds the other day a state by state breakdown of tax laws.
As for the second part of your comment, that is state based. In Md they tax the sale price, but PA they tax the difference. Check with yoru state, or I found on Edmunds the other day a state by state breakdown of tax laws.
12-10-2007, 01:48 PM
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Only if it were a sport. He says it's a GT and that the Vin is comming up sport. They should have offered him around $13000 if it's a GT. He could probably talk that up to $13,500. There is a price difference between the GT and Sport in trade value.
Sportrider, find out why your Vin says Sport and get it changed to GT if That's what you have.
Sportrider, find out why your Vin says Sport and get it changed to GT if That's what you have.
I hope those that have had the GT package have enjoyed it while they had it, cause that's about all the value you will be getting from it. On the newer ones it tends to matter a bit more.
12-10-2007, 01:50 PM
#67
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And all I am saying, is unless someone is willign to buy your car, what's it matter what they tell you it's worth. The only book I listen to is a check book. And yes, there si a COST to the simplicity of a trade, it should be obvious. If YOU put the work into advertising, cleaning up and meeting buyers, you will get a higher price. Isn't that obvious though?
12-10-2007, 01:54 PM
#69
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And all I am saying, is unless someone is willign to buy your car, what's it matter what they tell you it's worth. The only book I listen to is a check book. And yes, there si a COST to the simplicity of a trade, it should be obvious. If YOU put the work into advertising, cleaning up and meeting buyers, you will get a higher price. Isn't that obvious though?
12-10-2007, 01:58 PM
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Blah, Blah, blah... you had me at "true bluebook".... there is only one book you should really be concerned with and that is a checkbook. A car is WORTH exactly what someoen will pay for it, end of discussion.
As for the second part of your comment, that is state based. In Md they tax the sale price, but PA they tax the difference. Check with yoru state, or I found on Edmunds the other day a state by state breakdown of tax laws.
As for the second part of your comment, that is state based. In Md they tax the sale price, but PA they tax the difference. Check with yoru state, or I found on Edmunds the other day a state by state breakdown of tax laws.
Move to Wisconsin. Sportrider would save $1000 in sales tax if he traded on a $30,000 car.
12-10-2007, 02:03 PM
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I wasn't speaking about affording, I was speaking about will. If someone is willing and able to buy your car, that is a true cash offer of value. If soemone says your car is worth x, ask them to buy it. If they say no, there word is meaningless. Credit Unions don't have lots of cars, as far as I know, KBB has never bought a car before...
No, because his current car isn't titled there. Thus he hasn't paid taxes to Wisconsin on that car already, and therefore would be liable for the entire sale price, but good try.
No, because his current car isn't titled there. Thus he hasn't paid taxes to Wisconsin on that car already, and therefore would be liable for the entire sale price, but good try.
12-10-2007, 02:08 PM
#72
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everyone needs to forget that KBB exists, that book is never used by dealers and often creates confusion like whats in this thread. Half the time dealers don't even look in a 'book'! They look at the manheim auctions to see what cars are going for, which in this case is 11-14k pending on at,mt and miles, how shiny your wax job is is irrelevant!! Don't believe me, befriend another salesman and he'll tell ya too
12-10-2007, 02:13 PM
#73
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This isn't really the case for 04 RX8's. It's basically stick or auto, followed by condition and miles. Options are Way BACK ON THE LIST when trying to decide a true value of one of these cars. It's just how it is.
I hope those that have had the GT package have enjoyed it while they had it, cause that's about all the value you will be getting from it. On the newer ones it tends to matter a bit more.
I hope those that have had the GT package have enjoyed it while they had it, cause that's about all the value you will be getting from it. On the newer ones it tends to matter a bit more.
Autotrader lists the 04 GT $1500 more than the Sport for trade in value. Sorry but it's true.
I have an 04. It's in excellent shape. Had all the tsb's recalls done including the compression test, which it passed. Far as I'm concerned it's the same build as an 06 or 07. I have all the paper work. I can prove the cars reliability. That is another reason to sell outright. People like to check out the original owner, see how he maintained the car. The seller can answer any questions a dealer on trade could not answer personally. They will trust me more than a dealer who knows nothing about the car. I've never had trouble selling a car outright and always get 2 or 3g over dealer black book. Trading in is easy and no hassle but you pay the price for doing so. It is an expensive convenience.
12-10-2007, 02:23 PM
#74
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