zoom44

ahh... nevermind RX8-TX basically said what i was going to about developement time. remember what honda four bangers were like 20 years ago? give it time


and ya know the rotary is actually more "rounded" right? those four bangers are kinda square by comparison:D :p

zoom44

responding in this thread:D


my answer btw about hybrids in the other thread so ya's don't haveta do no searchin:

"oh but they have! Mazda has already shown a rotary-electric hybrid powered vehicle as a concept several years ago at the car shows. they have also shown a hydrogen burning rotary prototype and i have read or heard or perhaps just made it up on my own, but i am sure that they have/are currently mating the hybrid system to the hydrogen rotary! how's that for Green they are also mentioned in the yamaguchi book."

bwayout

no ... not yet. but I'll keep looking!

:D

bwayout

Oh so here it is! You must have hit "submit reply" while I was still typing ...

bwayout

OK!

:D

Any mechanics nor engineers out here that can give me a simple answer?

U. N. O.

thanks.. thats what i am looking for. but i totally understand and agree with you about the WHOLE car , but i was trying to leave aside that issue and concentrate in engine only, thats the difference i want opinions on, i mean the S2000 is good looking in the outside, the inside has a lot to improve yet is a work or art too for a performance sports car. the same with the Z yeah it has a maxima engine but it doesn't matter what other applications it has as long as it performes the way it does!
i mean with this mpg too i think even a ferrari does better. I will pass by the ferrari dealership tomorrow and look at the window sticker for it.

U. N. O.

wrong , the mpg IS an issue. sure a 2.0 4 cylinder produces the same torque but it consumes less ! wayyy less, imagine this engine now with a turbo as u sugest! i am afraid of the mpg, and that oil light going on and off like crazy once the turbo kicks in..

RX8-TX

Ehhhhh....a 360 Modena does 11 / 16 mpg & a 575 does 10/17

Ahhhhh....and the Enzo does 8/12

Source: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymod...emodelNF.shtml

U. N. O.

IMOH not to dash you or to start a fight but i think you are being very bias in your sayings.. lets put aside the factor that we all have spent $30k in this car and have a cold look at the diferences btw. pistons and rotary, reglardless we own one or not, thats my hole point..!! so maybe we can conclude in this time right now until other forms of combustions come what is more reasonable a piston or a rotary engine for an sports car..

RX8-TX

We cannot help but being biased....its like being a football team fanatic or something like that.... :D

Giving my last word on your hypothesis....I think the best engine for a sports car is a Porsche flat-6 engine and that is a pistons engine...oh, wait....I went far away from our league....well, if they can produce rotaries, and keep prices moderate and accesible (not Corolla accesible....you know what I mean! ) I will go for a rotary, and will say that it is the right time for one....
But that my friend...is my biased opinion.

U. N. O.

cool thanks i will make a quick stop by ther thougt to day dream:D

zoom44

his other post said -- so his opinion differs from yours as to what is acceptable from a sports car.

and the oil light going on and off is a known problem with a limited amount of cars, which is just a first year of a new car kinda problem which is easily remedied by a) getting the replacement pan from mazda and b)keeping your oil topped off.

U. N. O.

but why would you take a rotary over the piston ? what pro factors are u basing off?

revhappy

Precisely, the piston engine has advanced much more in the last 20 years. We've been hearing for forty years to give the rotory time. I think we will have to wait for hydrogen-powered vehicles.

For now, the rotory is best suited for a miata-sized car.

aussie77

Great that you can pick *four* malcontented owners and take their views over the many happy RX-8 owners who post repeatedly on these boards. I can barely find a thread anywhere on these boards where some people have chipped in to complain, often about things which are completely unrelated to the actual topic of the thread.

There are plenty of people who love the car - in fact many more than those who are unhappy. They have sold thousands of these things to date. Last I heard, the number of people in the U.S who were taking the buy-back options were a very, very small minority (less than 50 out of the thousands of owners). So let's see... lots of happy owners.... a few who aren't, and for some of them it is more of a trust issue than a matter of liking or not liking the car.

The engine is not only a beautiful concept, it is also an extremely effective one. It is designed for a specific purpose, and it fulfils that purpose very effectively. By its very nature it is extremely reliable. It produces a great power vs weight ratio. A very flat torque curve. Small size.

The only true downside of the Renesis that I can see is the gas mileage. And even that isn't as bad as some people here make out. Personally my own mileage has been about what I expected (18 mpg during the break in with city driving). Some people have had better, and lots of people are seeing their mileage improve dramatically as they get some more miles on the car.

Is it perfect? Nope. But it bloody well rocks and that's the simple truth!

zoom44

come come on put em up put em up!!! but really i did put aside my ownership on the one point, i thought, and i stand by the statement- the renesis puts out what i think and many others agree is a tremendous amout of power for an NA motor of it's size and weight. and it is that very premise power to size/weight that makes it a great engine for a sports car. it's dirth of moving parts make it very reliable, so the only question that remains is the gas mileage. it's a sports car so it will get inherently less mileage that a regular family car. so "we" can't "conclude in this time right now until other forms of combustions come what is more reasonable a piston or a rotary engine for an sports car" only you can decide what mpg you are comfortable with in your sports car. i can live with it considering the rest of the car and this is where you can't put aside the fact of ownership, the only way to know if you can conclude for yourself if you can handle it or not is to own it and see.

zoom44

right and if honda was basically the only company working on the 4cyl for the last 40 years how far along would it be. the rotary took an exaggerated length of time to get there because of the lack of developement by other companies. as for the size of the car it might do better but then many of us wouldn't have bought the car, lacking the 4 seats. i agree it's a precarious balance but this car is damn fine.

Elara

Aussie77 couldn't be more correct. This car kicks ***. It's nowhere near as bad as some of the more vocal members of this forum would have you believe. Apparently, they've never driven a sports car before, or else they would have been prepared for the gas mileage. My car is apparently defective, since the lowest I've gotten is 16mpg, and only on my first two tanks. I'm at 2,500 miles, and getting a steady average of 18-19 city and 25-26 highway. That's better than the Taurus SHO I drive occasionally, and about the same as the Boxster I had for a week. Or perhaps I just figured out how to drive this car better than some.

Why do I like this car? The engine is so quiet and vibration-free it's amazing. I've never heard or felt anything like it. The car has a very capable amount of power, and the torque pull is so linear it's disgustingly easy to hit obscene speeds without noticing. The handling is also clean and sharp, and the suspension doesn't fling you around-the car almost feels like it's dancing around hairpin turns.

I think Mazda deserves a lot of applause for having the guts to bring this engine back- and I'm glad I get to experience it this time around, since I missed the RX-7 on the first run. And as well as this car drives, I'll bet it stays around for a long time. They're already talking about making it into a convertible AND a two-seater(check Automotive News two weeks back- but of course, I'm sure some of you won't believe them either-)- somehow, that doesn't imply to me that this engine is going to die any time soon. Whether or not the nay-sayers on here have decided for Mazda, which they seem to think they have. So yes, I think the rotary was the right fit for this car, and I can't wait to drive the next incarnation.

RX8-TX

A rotary over a piston...well, if I could get a car with the same comodities, same style appeal (not saying its the best for everyone, Im saying that I do like it personally,) and most important: the same range of options....I would think about it.

The rotary was an extra in my case. I never owned a wankel. But I didn't have any other decent options with the same characteristics (forget about the Wankel)...if the RX8 was piston based and called differently, it might have caught my attention anyways.

Trust me, I have a lot to learn about this engine and about the car. But we are in 2003! I seriously doubt that ANY car manufacturer (you name it: Detroit or Asia) will release a seriously flawed product into the market (Japs have a tendency to commit suicide when honor calls.... )

Again, I am still to prove myself right through experience: after 100k miles we'll talk again.... hopefully.

revhappy

Oh, the rationalizations!!!! The rotary projects form several manufacturers were thrown away precisely for the rotary inherent problems (fuel economy, emissions, perhaps even the proliferation of automatic transmissions).

Below is a link that shows that this latest rendition of the rotary may actually be worse in relation to its piston counterparts then it was 10 years ago.

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...5&pagenumber=4

The rotary is a great idea on paper, but it hasn't really worked that well in the real world....yet.

RX8-TX

Precisely! (Im having a deja vu...I think we went through this topic a little while ago....) whenever other manufacturers tried to get their hands on the Wankel concept, they found it to be a 'real' challenge to get it to work on a profitable iteration. Why would they invest money and time on it? if the piston engine was already there and ready to make money for them.

On the other hand Mazda (still pissed at you for f'ing up the HP specs, alright?!) simply kept going with the wankel. I am sorry but I scraped the link you posted, the thread is waay long.

They are the sole holders to develop such technology. Why would any other company invest money on something that 1) Doesn't belong to them. 2)Is way behind development in comparisson to a reciprocal engine ??

They somehow have the gutts to keep investing money on it, behind the marketing people and executives...there has to be a brain, someone who either is 1) suicidal 2) brilliant 3) has a lot of money to waste, that sees the rotary as a viable platform.

Don't you think?:o zzzz zzzz zzzzz

Edit: darn it, I have to take a grammar class again....I suck.:p

Tweety-nator

wrong, the mpg IS an issue or may NOT be an issue, depending on who you talk to. Just kidding :D

You are correct, the Renesis consumes more than the typical 2.0 4 cylinder, but it produces more horsepower as well. I was just saying that 18MPG is acceptable for a sports car. As I mentioned earlier, it is only 1MPG lower than my 350Z that is arriving in November. I am hoping that my 350Z will get the advertised MPG, but if doesn't I'll just mark it off as just needing to be broken in.
Not trying to dismiss your concerns, just presenting a differing view. I hope you get better MPG as your car breaks in.

By the way, thanks for backing me up Zoom44. I did know about the oil pan thing. :D

revhappy

I believe some other manufactuers (GM???) had plans to produce rotary powered cars and cancelled them when 70's oil crisis hit. I really don't know why Mazda sticks with it, but most of their production is still piston powered. If the RX8 flops, perhaps they will can it altogether. It would be unfortunate, because the engine would still be great for a Miata.

RX8-TX

I just have one last comment: I am not religious, but I have faith.




j/k :D .....about the 'last' comment.

RX8-TX

I think you want to get rid of the Ford and get yourself a little convertible, right??! :D :D